Canada Summer Development Camp Feedback?

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Yeah, he didn't look out of place at all last training camp. Would have made the team had we been an expansion team or had less depth on defense. And by all accounts he progressed quite nicely last year (WJC All Star Team at age 18, THN and CHL accolades.)

Sure he may be overrated by some. But comparing him to Gauthier is underrating him.

I agree. I am an Oilers fan which pains me to praise so highly a Flames prospect. But Dion Phaneuf is a player. He should top out as a #1/#2 defenseman who has all of the tools to be a great NHL defenseman. Only time will tell but he is very good. And I felt he could have made the Flames last year. He was exceptional in the exhibition game against the Oil. But they made the smart and prudent decision to send him back to the Dub.

Flames Draft Watcher, I agree he will be much better than Gauthier who I feel is overrated. Big hitter but too often takes himself out of position to try for the big hit. No offense and pitiful at fighting. Phaneuf will quickly surpass Gauthier.

For the many posts here about Gauthier's junior career (which was very good), five other defensemen were picked prior to the goat in his draft year. Obviously NHL scouts saw gaps in his game despite starring in the Q.

 

[db23]

Gauthier made huge strides following his draft year. Much more so than Phaneuf. When drafted he was considered strictly a stay at home crease clearer. The next year he scored a ton of points, dominated junior hockey, and was a force at the WJC.

 

[gb701]

Gauthier made huge strides following his draft year. Much more so than Phaneuf. When drafted he was considered strictly a stay at home crease clearer. The next year he scored a ton of points, dominated junior hockey, and was a force at the WJC.

One word - BS.

If you are going to compare based solely on an increase in points and some personal biases, continuing this discussion is a waste of time.

If you want to see how Phaneuf did in the year following his draft year, look at the team he was on, the critical role he played, his recognition nationally and in every ranking that is around on prospects, his minutes played, his play at the WJC, etc etc etc.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Gauthier made huge strides following his draft year. Much more so than Phaneuf. When drafted he was considered strictly a stay at home crease clearer. The next year he scored a ton of points, dominated junior hockey, and was a force at the WJC.

Sorry dude. The leap Phaneuf made last year was just as significant, and he is clearly a better prospect at this point than Gauthier was. In fact, he's generally regarded as one of the top prospects in the world (i.e. See THN top 50 prospects list). Clearly a lot of those points for Gauthier that year had to do with being on the point of the Powerplay with Briere, who dominated in the Q that season.

Phaneuf still has a long way to go to back up some of his hype, but let's face it - a lot of the hype is simply due to the fact he had a tremendous year last year, thus at least part of it is justified. You really can't hold it against the guy. He's a stud. It doesn't mean he's going to be a perennial allstar or a #1 d-man ala Scott Stevens, but it does mean the Flames have a hell of a young defencemen in the making with a lot more upside than a player like Gauthier. Whether he realizes that upside remains to be seen.

 

[db23]

It is always the same on these boards. When a player is just drafted or has yet to turn pro, he is on his way to being a perennial All Star and the Hall of
Fame. Once they turn pro and struggle their way up the ladder, they are forgotten and ridiculed. Denis Gauthier was held in the same high regard at the age of 19 as Dion Phaneuf is now. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Five years from now the same goofs who are saying that Phaneuf is better than Gauthier NOW will be pumping some kid who is playing Pee Wee hockey now to step right in so the team can get rid of "that bum Phaneuf".

 

[Jovo Cop]

Ok lets put an end to the Gauthier -Phaneuf comparrisons .I have looked in my back issue of the 95 Hockey News draft issue and they had Gauthier ranked at #34 ..well below Phaneuf .The only thing the Hockey news had to say about Denis and Dion being comparable is both are tremendous open ice hitters .
In the 95 draft there were 12 defenceman rated ahead of Gauthier they were ,Berard ,redden,Berg,McKlaren,McKee,Buzek,Ware ,doig,Guren,Brown ,Laflamme,and Sergei fedorov (not that one ) .
Although Gautier was drafted 20th by the Flames , he did not come into the NHL with the same accolades as Dion Phaneuf .
So i think its a little bit of a slight comparing Dion to Gauthier .I also think its not too far to say if Dion was availbe during that 95 draft , he instead of Berard or Redden would of gone #1 overall .
Now as we can also tell the Hockey news rankings are far from 100% perfect as if you look at the names ranked ahead of Gauthier he is no doubt a better d-man than over half of those stiffs .
So i guess only time will tell but with his performance in the Dub and at the World Juniors he certainly appears to be the "real deal" .

 

[X-SHARKIE]

One word - BS.

If you are going to compare based solely on an increase in points and some personal biases, continuing this discussion is a waste of time.

If you want to see how Phaneuf did in the year following his draft year, look at the team he was on, the critical role he played, his recognition nationally and in every ranking that is around on prospects, his minutes played, his play at the WJC, etc etc etc.

He's not just talking stats though man. Dennis Gauthier put together a dominated show at the WJC's his following year very similar to Phaneuf.

I still think that Phaneuf is just maturing faster then some of the other players his age, and it's getting to peoples heads...I still would take Ryan Suter over him. Although you can't question Phaneuf is one of the best defensman prospects in the game.
Overated though.

 

[Hiishawk]

Denis Gauthier was held in the same high regard at the age of 19 as Dion Phaneuf is now. No ifs, ands, or buts. :

No. Plain and simple. Go back and check the pre-draft rankings, actual draft and post-draft (i.e., Hockey News' Future Watch issues). You'll see. Moreover, I was there in '95 and in `04. There was not nearly as much fanfare regarding Gauthier and he didn't have the same presence at his WJC's that Phaneuf did, although he played well. In ALL these categories Phaneuf is and has developed ahead of Gauthier. Some hype is surely justified but, yeah, Pierre McGuire types might be overdoing Phaneuf's eminent studliness a bit. Still, at the same age, Scott Stevens is a more accurate comparison. And yes, I was around and involved in hockey when Stevens was in junior and drafted.

What you often find on these boards are people who don't remember the hype or lack of it about a player or their relative development and then say things like "Cleary was considered to be a #1 lock just like Crosby" or the current Gauthier-Phaneuf thing. If anything, they overrate how "hyped" certain players were in the past.

 

[ZombieMatt]

Dion Phaneuf certainly has more fanfare at this time, before reaching the NHL, than Denis Gauthier ever did. That is completely undebatable, the facts don't lie.

However, there certainly were people on the HF boards when I first signed up for this board two odd years ago who were touting Gauthier as a guy who would be a Norris candidate in teh future. EARLY in his career, Gauthier WAS uber hyped by some, especially on HF Boards.

Am I saying that this means Phaneuf is going to be like Gauthier? No, not at all. And I'm not saying that Gauthier was hyped as much as Phaneuf at the draft. AND, I'm not saying Gauthier was hyped as much as Phaneuf at any point. HOWEVER, Gauthier WAS pumped up by some Flames fans as their next #1 defenceman.

Many prospects are super-pumped and then don't pan out as expected (Maxim Afinogenov is a great example, as are hundreds of others). People on these boards tend to quickly overlook past less than anticipated developments in order to pump up the new flavour of the week. It's important that we realize that a large number of high profile prospects don't always pan out as we hope.

I'm not trying to say that Phaneuf will flop, because I don't think he's going to (by more conservative projections), but I'm saying that to completely ignore the fact that SOME did say Gauthier was the be all and end all of the future of the Flames D, is equally as wrong as trying to compare the two of them.

 

[Hiishawk]

Many prospects are super-pumped and then don't pan out as expected (Maxim Afinogenov is a great example, as are hundreds of others). People on these boards tend to quickly overlook past less than anticipated developments in order to pump up the new flavour of the week. It's important that we realize that a large number of high profile prospects don't always pan out as we hope.

Fair enough. But I think we all know this. It's all part of talking about prospects. It's prediction and speculation. And the fact that some prospects will surprise while others will not live up to expectations is a given. That is what makes this board and prospect talk in general interesting.

Therefore, if somebody makes a reasonable argument as to why they think prospect X will be a great player why tell them that it MIGHT not happen because "not all prospects do as expected"? It's true of course- but this is a given when you're writing about prospects.

If you don't think that a certain player will live up to the hype then give cogent arguments as to why not. Don't just say "because some prospects don't live up to expectations".

If we had to wait until we know if a player pans out before commenting on him then this board would be completely silent!

 

[ZombieMatt]

Fair enough. But I think we all know this. It's all part of talking about prospects. It's prediction and speculation. And the fact that some prospects will surprise while others will not live up to expectations is a given. That is what makes this board and prospect talk in general interesting.

Therefore, if somebody makes a reasonable argument as to why they think prospect X will be a great player why tell them that it MIGHT not happen because "not all prospects do as expected"? It's true of course- but this is a given when you're writing about prospects.

If you don't think that a certain player will live up to the hype then give cogent arguments as to why not. Don't just say "because some prospects don't live up to expectations".

If we had to wait until we know if a player pans out before commenting on him then this board would be completely silent!

I 100% agree with what you said. Except that I don't think we all do know this sometimes.

Certainly the idea that because "x" was disappointing means "y" will flop is garbage. But past failures hopefully will keep a degree of conservation in our lofty hopes for some guys.

 

[db23]

If you read my post, steblick is says at 19, Gauthier was as hyped as Phaneuf is at 19. Gauthier wasn't that highly regarded prior to the draft, but he was 18 at the time. It was the season AFTER the draft that Gauthier really stepped into the spotlight. So all of the Hockey News draft articles mean nothing.

For that matter Phaneuf was about the 12th rated North American prospect by CSS going into the 2003 draft, so you could say that he wasn't greatly hyped prior to the draft either. Both players came into the spotlight after they were drafted. Gauthier even more dramatically than Phaneuf.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

For that matter Phaneuf was about the 12th rated North American prospect by CSS going into the 2003 draft, so you could say that he wasn't greatly hyped prior to the draft either. Both players came into the spotlight after they were drafted. Gauthier even more dramatically than Phaneuf.

Of course you seem to be forgetting the fact that 2003 was one of the deepest drafts in the past 15 years. Phaneuf obviously would have gone top 5 in many drafts.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

You know what? Hype, schmype. My opinion of Dion is based on watching him. And to me he's further advanced at his age than Morris or Regehr were. Those are two darn good defensemen. Tends to suggest he's going to be a heck of a lot better than Gauthier who is overrated by a lot of people and was called (rightfully so) a 5th/6th defenseman by his coach/GM this summer.

 

[Garp]

Ok

For Flames fans and those who thinks that Phaneuf=God : Phaneuf is the best player the NHL ever saw. He has the offensives skills of Gretzky and has all the Skills Stevens got. And he has also a little of Howe.

For Phaneuf's Haters: Phaneuf=patrick traverse.

Enough said.
Can we talk about something else.

 

[Bill McNeal]

Ok

For Flames fans and those who thinks that Phaneuf=God : Phaneuf is the best player the NHL ever saw. He has the offensives skills of Gretzky and has all the Skills Stevens got. And he has also a little of Howe.

For Phaneuf's Haters: Phaneuf=patrick traverse.

Enough said.
Can we talk about something else.

What about all the Traverse lovers out there?

 

[Jovo Cop]

How can you EVEN mention Dion in the same breath as the GREAT Patrick Travesty . :lol sacre blue tabernac

 

[Jovo Cop]

Looks like the Great gauthier has been shipped out ..maybe to make room for Dion????

 

[db23]

Calgary has been looking for a centre for awhile. Gauthier was always mentioned as possible trade bait.

 

[Aaron Vickers]

Looks like the Great gauthier has been shipped out ..maybe to make room for Dion????

Not to mention the fact that Calgary's position of strength to deal from has been defense for quite some time now.

 

[DarthSather99]

All this doesn't mean too much as team USA will spank team Canada and win our second gold metal in as many years. Al Montoya to the rescue.

 

[Scottkmlps]

Wow, a post about how ALL the players did at Canada's Summer WJC camp turns into a Phaneuf pi$$ing contest. Can we get back to the topic now? And can someone answer a question that has been asked a couple times now? How did Ryan Munce look?

 

[paxtang]

How did all the goalies look?

I read a quote from Sutter that Rejean Beauchemin performed very well and is right now the favorite to start for Canada, and I'd be very interested in how he played.

 

[TomahawkSniper]

All this doesn't mean too much as team USA will spank team Canada and win our second gold metal in as many years. Al Montoya to the rescue.

More like Schneider(nucks prospect) to the rescue. Don't worry, Montoya will fall to Canada.