Can we now confirm that Crosby was saving himself for the playoffs?

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North Cole

♧ Lem
Jan 22, 2017
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MacKinnon played with the flu apparently at the end of the season

No, he was "resting". Get your facts straight. McDavid just said he had [mod] in December, but he was actually resting. He didn't need to try hard early for the Ross, he knew he could just turn it up at the end of the year.
 
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Todd Parchment

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Apr 5, 2018
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Dude, dont kick the nest. I did, and now I have 4 people spamming me. Helllllloooo? Can you heaaarrrrr meeeee? I'mmmmmmmmm stuck in the penssssss echooooo chamberrrrrrrrrr.... help meeeeeeeee!

If you mess with Crosby you lose a finger. Get away from this thread, bet you haven’t even watched 20 Pens games in 5 years.
He could win the Art Ross but saves himself for Lord Stanley. Lord Stanley prefers virgins.
 
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bambamcam4ever

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No, he was "resting". Get your facts straight. McDavid just said he had [mod] in December, but he was actually resting. He didn't need to try hard early for the Ross, he knew he could just turn it up at the end of the year.
Link?
 
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North Cole

♧ Lem
Jan 22, 2017
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If you mess with Crosby you lose a finger. Get away from this thread, bet you haven’t even watched 20 Pens games in 5 years.
He could win the Art Ross but saves himself for Lord Stanley. Lord Stanley prefers virgins.

That's why he has no wife. Damn. 20 in 5 years? if you haven't watched 79 per year, don't bother. I'd take the lost finger at this point, saves me replying to these people :laugh:
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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Good thing Kessel wasn't floating at the start of the year, you guys woulda been screwed. :laugh:

Nice, so the argument is that im angry and i posted nonsense. Cool story. Art Ross should just be done away with, players don't even want to win it anymore, right? Individual awards are the reason OV isn't that far behind him. I would like to see Crosby win another to be honest, he works hard for it. Problem is, he keeps winning and you gnats keep getting louder and more obnoxious. BRB, going to counseling for my anger issues....

There is no doubt Kessel carried the team on his back while Malkin and Crosby were coasting. Crosby and Malkin woke up when they were needed, especially Malkin. Crosby again was a roller coaster and was visibly playing a perimeter game for a majority of games.

But hey, you think Crosby lied when he admitted it’s hard to find the same intensity for regular season hockey at this point in his career. Glad you can read minds and let us know he was lying.

Also, what’s more important, the Art Ross or winning hockey immortality by threepeating? I know it’s a tough one since it’s so easy to threepeat and happened just 30 short years ago. No need for the league to even have the Art Ross when guys are pretty much always chasing b2b2b cups every season.
 

North Cole

♧ Lem
Jan 22, 2017
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There is no doubt Kessel carried the team on his back while Malkin and Crosby were coasting. Crosby and Malkin woke up when they were needed, especially Malkin. Crosby again was a roller coaster and was visibly playing a perimeter game for a majority of games.

But hey, you think Crosby lied when he admitted it’s hard to find the same intensity for regular season hockey at this point in his career. Glad you can read minds and let us know he was lying.

Also, what’s more important, the Art Ross or winning hockey immortality by threepeating? I know it’s a tough one since it’s so easy to threepeat and happened just 30 short years ago. No need for the league to even have the Art Ross when guys are pretty much always chasing b2b2b cups every season.

Why didn't kessel rest? He won b2b cups too, don't tell me the Lord of hot dogs has better stamina than Crosby?

Their both important. The Art Ross gives you a goal to strive towards during the regular season. Just like being valedictorian of your class, there is something to be proud of when you win an award. Marginalizing that because your guy didn't win it and championing his attempt at 3 cups in a row is disingenuous homerism. I never said he didn't want to 3peat, I simply refute the idea that th Art Ross is meaningless. Make a poll about whether it has value and I would bet it gets closed for being lopsided in favour of "yes".
 

North Cole

♧ Lem
Jan 22, 2017
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Or it's the fact you're arguing a point against people who watched every single game. It's not an "insult" or a suggestion that you have no clue about hockey or any other such imagined insults you think I'm lobbing at you. It's a statement of fact that people who watch 100% of a team's games will (more often than not) have a better handle on that team that someone who hasn't watched as many games.

It's the same reason why I posted once in the Capitals series thread about Holtby should have started, but haven't insisted since many Caps fans argued that Grubauer was the right choice. I figure, okay, they've seen the Caps play all 82 games, so maybe, just maybe, they have a better take on the team than I do.



Pacing does not equal literally not putting an ounce of effort in any game this season. No one is saying Crosby was crap all 82 games, but it was clear that the same consistent work ethic he's been known for his entire career wasn't there nearly as much this season as in the past. He'd have one or two "vintage Crosby" games, then go on a 4 or 5 game stretch of looking like he was trying to compete with Kessel for laziest player.

And his defense DID suffer. This was the first year since his rookie year that he didn't end up as a plus (ended at even on the year). And while I realize +/- is a dubious stat, it showed that this season, more than any in his career since he was 18, that Crosby was on the ice for more goals against than he normally is.

As for those GOTY threads, Crosby's a talented guy. He's capable of scoring a highlight reel goal even in games where he was largely invisible.

Whether you watched all the games or not isn't relevant. I don't care what you call it, call it whatever you want. The idea a player can "pace" themselves and be successful at the highest level of pro sports is offenaive on two fronts:

1 - it's offensive to his competitors, insinuating that a team can make the playoffs without full effort over the course of the season. What does that say about the teams like Florida? They are AHL bums because they couldn't get in ahead of a coasting pens team?

2 - it's offensive to the players pride. Crosby has been among the very best for a long time, he doesn't get to that level by coasting. That puts into question his work ethic and consistency. I like Crosby, but I do not agree that he was pacing or coasting or whatever. Players should want to be as hot as they can going in.

You guys really think that in a sport as superstitious as hockey, players would be doing sketchy things like that? This is a sport where guys don't even shave because it might bring them bad luck. How is intentionally coasting okay?

If the answer is yes, then we don't really need to keep going back and forth. It's clear we will likely never agree.

As for the +/-. Murray was also shitting the bed for large stretches of the early season.
 

Luigi Lemieux

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Sep 26, 2003
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Whether you watched all the games or not isn't relevant. I don't care what you call it, call it whatever you want. The idea a player can "pace" themselves and be successful at the highest level of pro sports is offenaive on two fronts:

1 - it's offensive to his competitors, insinuating that a team can make the playoffs without full effort over the course of the season. What does that say about the teams like Florida? They are AHL bums because they couldn't get in ahead of a coasting pens team?

2 - it's offensive to the players pride. Crosby has been among the very best for a long time, he doesn't get to that level by coasting. That puts into question his work ethic and consistency. I like Crosby, but I do not agree that he was pacing or coasting or whatever. Players should want to be as hot as they can going in.

You guys really think that in a sport as superstitious as hockey, players would be doing sketchy things like that? This is a sport where guys don't even shave because it might bring them bad luck. How is intentionally coasting okay?

If the answer is yes, then we don't really need to keep going back and forth. It's clear we will likely never agree.

As for the +/-. Murray was also ****ting the bed for large stretches of the early season.
You can argue until you're blue in the face, but you're wrong. Pens absolutely paced themselves or coasted, whichever term you prefer. If it's offensive to their competitors so be it, maybe it does mean Pittsburgh is that much better than Florida.
 

North Cole

♧ Lem
Jan 22, 2017
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You can argue until you're blue in the face, but you're wrong. Pens absolutely paced themselves or coasted, whichever term you prefer. If it's offensive to their competitors so be it, maybe it does mean Pittsburgh is that much better than Florida.

Compelling argument. Too bad Crosby was injured in 2011. Probably would have seen the pens win, what 6 cups ina row?
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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Why didn't kessel rest? He won b2b cups too, don't tell me the Lord of hot dogs has better stamina than Crosby?

Their both important. The Art Ross gives you a goal to strive towards during the regular season. Just like being valedictorian of your class, there is something to be proud of when you win an award. Marginalizing that because your guy didn't win it and championing his attempt at 3 cups in a row is disingenuous homerism. I never said he didn't want to 3peat, I simply refute the idea that th Art Ross is meaningless. Make a poll about whether it has value and I would bet it gets closed for being lopsided in favour of "yes".

Kessel has coasted this year, and most of his regular season career, then turned it on in the playoffs. Only he is blessed with this special skill though.

And keep trying to delude yourself into thinking an Art Ross means more to Crosby than a threepeat. An Art Ross does little for his legacy, a threepeat puts him in rarefied air that even Lemieux and Gretzky never breathed.

And I couldn’t care less about some Hfboard poll. Anyone with a hint of common sense knows what means more to Crosby right now. He basically came right out this Oct and told us that. But he’s lying and you caught him...

Your mind reading powers are even more powerful than Phil’s superpowers...
 
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ponder

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This is his 4th straight season with basically identical regular season production - 84-89 points in 75-82 games player in each of the past 4 years. The past 3 playoffs he's been at ~1 PPG in the playoffs each year, so far he's doing great, but it's just 4 games in, and he often destroys the Flyers. I'm a huge Crosby fan, but it's now 4 years straight that he's been one of the best players in the league, but not the best, and 4 playoff games hardly reverses that trend.

Also, it's not like 9 points in 4 playoff games is some kind of crazy thing for Crosby. It's a pretty standard hot streak for him - this past regular season alone he put up 11 points in 4 games in January, and 10 points in 4 games in late November/early December, not to mention an 11 game point streak where he put up 22 points in January/early Feb. ~2 PPG over 4 games is something Sid does regularly, it's not "OMG he was saving himself for the playoffs!"
 

Luigi Lemieux

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Compelling argument. Too bad Crosby was injured in 2011. Probably would have seen the pens win, what 6 cups ina row?
Pens from 2010-15 were regular season powerhouses but lacked depth. Pens 2015-present are loaded with depth. Not sure what that has to do with this year, a 2x defending champion coasting during the regular season to be in a good position to try and win 3 in a row.
 

North Cole

♧ Lem
Jan 22, 2017
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Kessel has coasted this year, and most of his regular season career, then turned it on in the playoffs. Only he is blessed with this special skill though.

And keep trying to delude yourself into thinking an Art Ross means more to Crosby than a threepeat. An Art Ross does little for his legacy, a threepeat puts him in rarefied air that even Lemieux and Gretzky never breathed.

And I couldn’t care less about some Hfboard poll. Anyone with a hint of common sense knows what means more to Crosby right now.

I think Lemieux and Gretzky are more than happy to be in the upper echelons of the greatest of all time. You know, the real rarified air.

"Hint of common sense", "delude yourself". Ironic statements coming from you. Keep trying to delude yourself into thinking that anything he does at this point will put him anywhere near Gretzky or Lemieux. That ship sailed with his health in 2011.

3peat. Hah. Isles won 4 in a row. Guess their better than this Pens team. [MOD]
 
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North Cole

♧ Lem
Jan 22, 2017
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Pens from 2010-15 were regular season powerhouses but lacked depth. Pens 2015-present are loaded with depth. Not sure what that has to do with this year, a 2x defending champion coasting during the regular season to be in a good position to try and win 3 in a row.

Who cares about depth. I just spent 2 hours arguing with drones about how Crosby is so good he can coast. If he is so good he can coast, why the f*** does he need depth? He can just stop coasting and carry the team. You guys need to stop moving the goalposts.
 

kladorf2005

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Apr 20, 2018
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Why didn't kessel rest? He won b2b cups too, don't tell me the Lord of hot dogs has better stamina than Crosby?

Have you ever watched Kessel play hockey? There is a reason why the hot dog thing has merit. He is the laziest player on the planet. He has the iron man streak because he avoids contact at all costs. Just watch how he reacts when he's standing still with the puck and someone is charging toward him. It really is quite comical.

FTR, I'm not denying he is fast in spurts and has a deadly wrist shot. He has no one-timer whatsoever though.
 

Luigi Lemieux

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Sep 26, 2003
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Who cares about depth. I just spent 2 hours arguing with drones about how Crosby is so good he can coast. If he is so good he can coast, why the **** does he need depth? He can just stop coasting and carry the team. You guys need to stop moving the goalposts.
I didn't move anything...you brought up 2011 for some odd reason. My only position has been and still is, the pens spent much of the season coasting and are now turning it on. If you can't see that i can't help you.
 

North Cole

♧ Lem
Jan 22, 2017
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Have you ever watched Kessel play hockey? There is a reason why the hot dog thing has merit. He is the laziest player on the planet. He has the iron man streak because he avoids contact at all costs. Just watch how he reacts when he's standing still with the puck and someone is charging toward him. It really is quite comical.

FTR, I'm not denying he is fast in spurts and has a deadly wrist shot. He no one-timer whatsoever though.

Yes, I've seen kessel play. That's why he was never the guy in Toronto and doesn't play top line in Pitt. I heard some funny stories about the guy when i worked for his old team. Crosby has never been lazy, so the pacing bs doesn't hold merit.
 

North Cole

♧ Lem
Jan 22, 2017
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I didn't move anything...you brought up 2011 for some odd reason. My only position has been and still is, the pens spent much of the season coasting and are now turning it on. If you can't see that i can't help you.

I brought up 2011-2015 because he did sweet f*** all the playoffs. You're saying he is coasting because his team is way better. Which means he wasnt good enough to get it done with malkin in the first half of this decade and needed a better team. Best players in the word dont coast and let their new "deep" teams carry them into the playoffs.

My position is, no player is good enough to turn it off and on whenever he wants. I mean, I guess he is if it's his team doing all the work for him, but then who cares if he turns it on because his team can still carry him. If you can't see that, then i can't help you.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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I think Lemieux and Gretzky are more than happy to be in the upper echelons of the greatest of all time. You know, the real rarified air.

"Hint of common sense", "delude yourself". Ironic statements coming from you. Keep trying to delude yourself into thinking that anything he does at this point will put him anywhere near Gretzky or Lemieux. That ship sailed with his health in 2011.

3peat. Hah. Isles won 4 in a row. Guess their better than this Pens team. [MOD]

You can whine all you like, but neither of those two won three in a row. That’s a simple fact.

So threepeating puts him in a place they never were and does WAY more for his legacy than another Art Ross trophy. That’s also common sense, but it’s comical you are having trouble seeing something so obvious.

In the end, it doesn’t matter if he ever puts up their stats, because I’m 100% sure he plays to win cups, not pad his stats. He’s driven to win championships and that is how he will judge his own career, not worrying about if he won some meaningless Art Ross when he had much more important goals for himself.

Crosby flat out said he has trouble finding intensity for the regular season, but you keep insisting otherwise. I guess the man’s words aren’t what he feels, because you claim it’s not possible.
 
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bambamcam4ever

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Feb 16, 2012
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Who cares about depth. I just spent 2 hours arguing with drones about how Crosby is so good he can coast. If he is so good he can coast, why the **** does he need depth? He can just stop coasting and carry the team. You guys need to stop moving the goalposts.
None of the Pens fans are moving the goalposts, we have said over and over that Crosby coasted this season. You are the one creating these logical bridges to nowhere. I honestly have no idea what you're trying to argue when you bring up 2011.

I'm sorry if this upsets Oiler fans, but the truth is that McDavid and the Oilers' goal from January at the latest was an Art Ross, everyone else competing for the trophy was focused on making, or winning in the playoffs. Yes, players want to win it, but also understand that it is not the ultimate goal. Do marathon runners prioritize being in 1st place after the first mile and sprint the whole way? No. Why overexert yourself when it will only harm your chances of being a champion.
 
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