Can anyone in the NHL match this?
- Thread starter The Madrigal
- Start date
Nope. And Hextall will most likely add 3 more blue chip prospects in next year's draft with two firsts and a second.
It's pretty amazing how over the last two years he's gotten Rubtsov, Laberge, Allison, Hart, Patrick, Frost, and Ratcliffe, all of whom Hextall considered first round talents.
It's pretty amazing how over the last two years he's gotten Rubtsov, Laberge, Allison, Hart, Patrick, Frost, and Ratcliffe, all of whom Hextall considered first round talents.
The Madrigal
Registered User
Looking at that list they could probably use a stud RW to add into the mix. Although Konecny is a 2nd year player witgh stud potential who is better suited to play RW than left.
I also think it wouldn't hurt them to start getting aggressive again with the defense position in the draft starting next year.
bear16
Registered User
- Dec 20, 2013
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I don't understand, some of those players WERE taken in the first round...
Don't quote me on this, but I believe that Patrick was top three, or something, too.
ponder719
Haute Couturier
I don't understand, some of those players WERE taken in the first round...
Don't quote me on this, but I believe that Patrick was top three, or something, too.
The impressive part isn't "they were all taken a round late," which is obviously not the case; it's "Hexy got 7 'first round talents' while only having 3 firsts."
bear16
Registered User
- Dec 20, 2013
- 245
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Whatever... the wording makes no sense. The players on that list who were taken in the first round obviously were picked because they were considered first round talent. I can understand saying that the guys taken in the second round were considered first rounders, but including the 2OA (Patrick) on that list is just stupid.
I don't understand, some of those players WERE taken in the first round...
Don't quote me on this, but I believe that Patrick was top three, or something, too.
Why you hef to be mad? Hextall considered all of them first round talents, whether they were taken in the first round or not. Nothing wrong with my assertion.
The Madrigal
Registered User
CutOnDime97
Too Showman
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Random Forest
Registered User
- May 12, 2010
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Name another team that built a pool like that without trading its four best forwards. What Hextall has done is remarkable. He has single handedly disproven the myth that teams need to blow it all up and live out of the NHL's basement for years at a time to rebuild. A bright GM should be able to do it with a little vision and shrewd management of assets.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Exactly this.
And it's worth pointing out that he's stashed so many draft picks that he was able to trade a bunch to move up, without missing out in later rounds.
We've always known the Flyers scouting staff is very good. Now they're combined with a GM who amasses picks instead of shedding them; he maximizes the scouting effort instead of minimizing it.
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
I'll see it when I believe it if Hextall trades a bunch of picks in future drafts or isn't still acquiring the odd extra pick or two, even when we're contending. I'm sure the occasional high value pick gets traded for some need, but I don't doubt he will always hoard them. He understands keeping the cupboard always stocked. As we often see with contenders, endless pick after pick gets traded for overrated players who aren't difference makers......and then teams' windows are prematurely closed because they need cheap young talent to fill in and don't have it. Honestly, I trust our amateur scouting a lot more to hit on high picks than I do our pro scouting/evaluating team to use them in trades.
It's absurd to think, with our pool shaping up as is, we will have 2 potential top 20-25 picks in next year's draft -- my mind is already aflutter with the far off possibilities of combining them, trading down with one, trading up with one, using one in a package deal -- and we will have another 10 picks overall. It's possible another one or two could be acquired in trading some of our depth players.
It's absurd to think, with our pool shaping up as is, we will have 2 potential top 20-25 picks in next year's draft -- my mind is already aflutter with the far off possibilities of combining them, trading down with one, trading up with one, using one in a package deal -- and we will have another 10 picks overall. It's possible another one or two could be acquired in trading some of our depth players.
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
Flyers have one of the best amateur scouting teams in the league under Hextall's lead. The best probably. But we still have to acknowledge that they have been pretty darn lucky to seemingly hit on pick after pick after pick. It's not a criticism of their clearly strong evaluating and methodology but an acknowledgment that still only takes you so far. Our #3-4 best prospects were undrafted and a 5th rounder. Even the best scouting teams have their down years drafting and can't depend on that happening. Yet, we haven't had a single one yet (in early returns); you can count the iffy picks/misses on one hand. His emphasis on sheer # of picks is always a tried and true method of increasing your odds of hitting, though all it has meant so far is MORE picks we're hitting on.
But I don't know where we'd be today without winning the second pick. Our massive future hole at 1C was a worry for many, and I don't know how it would've been filled otherwise without making the trade you mention we haven't. Or just praying we strike lightning on some gem, which is a hope, not really a strategy. Building a team like this is still the exception. Tanking and drafting high picks, provided management is competent, is still the most successful strategy for most teams. It's no myth.
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
28 selections in the last three drafts. 5 first rounders, 4 second rounders, 4 third rounders, 5 fourth rounders, 3 fifth rounders, 4 sixth rounders, & 3 seventh rounders. First round picks were #7, #24, #22, #2, & #27.
Next year they have potentially 10 picks right now. Potentially 2 first rounders, 1 second rounder, 1 third rounder, 1 fourth rounder, 2 fifth rounders, 1 sixth rounder, & two seventh rounders.
They traded a second #44, third #75, & fourth #108 rounder to move up this year in the second round #35 to take Ratcliffe. They moved back in the first round from #18 to #22 in 2016 for Rubtsov & upgraded a third rounder #79 into a second rounder #36. They moved up 2015 in the first round to #24 for Konecny from #29 for a second rounder #61.
The biggest coupe of all in terms of value not included in all above there is signing Philippe Myers as an undrafted UFA after he went unselected in the 2015 draft.
Next year they have potentially 10 picks right now. Potentially 2 first rounders, 1 second rounder, 1 third rounder, 1 fourth rounder, 2 fifth rounders, 1 sixth rounder, & two seventh rounders.
They traded a second #44, third #75, & fourth #108 rounder to move up this year in the second round #35 to take Ratcliffe. They moved back in the first round from #18 to #22 in 2016 for Rubtsov & upgraded a third rounder #79 into a second rounder #36. They moved up 2015 in the first round to #24 for Konecny from #29 for a second rounder #61.
The biggest coupe of all in terms of value not included in all above there is signing Philippe Myers as an undrafted UFA after he went unselected in the 2015 draft.
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The Madrigal
Registered User
It's also worth noting that while they are no longer prospects, Ivan Provorov is about to be a 20 year old second year defenseman, and Travis Konecny is about to be a 20 year old second year winger. Both would be atop those lists at their respective positions.
dats81
Registered User
Excellent drafting, great pipeline of talent.
Hextall has always been preaching about building a winning environment for the kids to thrive in. If they can tweak the roster accordingly and get Hakstol on the same page, the next years should be fun.
Hextall has always been preaching about building a winning environment for the kids to thrive in. If they can tweak the roster accordingly and get Hakstol on the same page, the next years should be fun.
David St Hubbins
Well, you're not as confused as he is.
flyersjim73
Registered User
One thing I'm particularly happy about is the amount of different leagues these kids are spread out through. It gives them more time and room to develop IMO (i.e. Sandstrom doesn't have to battle for time in Lehigh Valley this year since he's just going to stay in Sweden).
The Madrigal
Registered User
This franchise has done a complete 180 in regards to how to properly establish a team since Hextall has taken over.
Want to win a championship? Develop your team from the ground up. The Flyers have never done that, at least not in recent decades. Every year coming, more and more kids will be inserted into the lineup from our development cycle. That is a beautiful thing to see.
For the first time since the Lindros days, I am starting to feel that energy of the Flyers being that competitive team again. The type that people say before the season starts that....hmmm maybe they could be a cup contender. In 2-3 years we will be the team that gets lumped into the upper tier competition again. I think this year will be Year 1 when people start taking them serious again.
Want to win a championship? Develop your team from the ground up. The Flyers have never done that, at least not in recent decades. Every year coming, more and more kids will be inserted into the lineup from our development cycle. That is a beautiful thing to see.
For the first time since the Lindros days, I am starting to feel that energy of the Flyers being that competitive team again. The type that people say before the season starts that....hmmm maybe they could be a cup contender. In 2-3 years we will be the team that gets lumped into the upper tier competition again. I think this year will be Year 1 when people start taking them serious again.
Captain Dave Poulin
Imaginary Cat
You know what else people used to say? When the playoffs started, guys on TV would say "The Flyers are dangerous - I'd watch out for them." When we have been really good, that has come up, time and time again, no matter where we have been seeded. As an organization, we are a "good playoff team" if you know what I mean (the exact same way my Louisville Cardinals were always a "great tournament team" under Denny Crum). I have always loved that about us and I am very much looking forward to seeing and experiencing that again. I'm not looking forward to having massive coronaries every other night, but that's the price of admission, so **** it.
Tripod
I hate this team
On the main boards, it looks like the majority of people think we have the best prospect pool today.
And we have 10 picks for next year already.....guess who has more right now?
Hint....no one.
And we have 10 picks for next year already.....guess who has more right now?
Hint....no one.
Tripod
I hate this team
Also...say what we will, but we can keep that pipeline coming. If the decision to move Simmonds happens, that will yield likely 2 good, young assets.
And that depth chart that Mad did, does not include Bernhardt and Hogberg on defense...one who has already been to the WJC, the other likely to make it this year.
I believe we have 17 prospects right now who have ben to the WJC. So that's not only depth, that's depth with guys playing at a high level. And that doesn't include anyone we just drafted.
And that depth chart that Mad did, does not include Bernhardt and Hogberg on defense...one who has already been to the WJC, the other likely to make it this year.
I believe we have 17 prospects right now who have ben to the WJC. So that's not only depth, that's depth with guys playing at a high level. And that doesn't include anyone we just drafted.
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Drafting well is really only a part of it. You have to understand how to properly develop them as well. I think thats really an underrated aspect as well as team construction. Having good prospects is great but at some point that has to lead to be a contender. Look how long it took Edmonton and Toronto. Colorado, Winnipeg and Buffalo with all of those stacked pipelines they had still are only on the edge. Hopefully Patrick is that guy that can turn a franchise around. Im excited to see him play in those first twenty games.
Random Forest
Registered User
- May 12, 2010
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So I agree with most of your post but strongly disagree with the conclusion.
You're right that our scouting department has delivered on an insane percentage of our recent picks (at least in terms of early returns), but I think you're not emphasizing enough the effect of sheer volume of picks in yielding promising players. I'll grant Phil Myers as a stroke of luck, obviously, but with players like Lindblom, and to a lesser extent Laczynski and Vorobyov, you should expect to hit the lottery when you pick with the volume that we have. Since 2015, we've drafted a total of 28 times which is more than any team in the league by my count during that time. That's four full draft classes in three years. Success obviously takes a combination of proper scouting and volume, but one of those things is MUCH easier for an astute manager to control, and Hextall obviously understands this. Chicago from 2001-2009 drafted more than any other team in the league by a massive margin, and that laid the foundation for their Cup wins despite not having a particularly impressive success rate on a per pick basis.
As for filling the 1C worry with Patrick, that's true to an extent, but the Flyers would still have had the top prospect pool in the league even had they not won a lottery pick. And further, they still would have had the assets to facilitate a trade to acquire a blue chip center prospect, even if it meant trading a top young defender at some point. We obviously got incredibly fortunate with Patrick--no doubt about that--but our future success didn't entirely hinge upon that stroke of luck. It merely moved the time table ahead. Hell, it's not even inconceivable that we could have used some of our excess assets to trade up this year to nab Glass, Pettersson, Vilardi or someone else.
The Flyers model is an exception to the "rule" but only because Hextall is an exceptional GM amongst a peer group of dithering imbeciles like Sakic, Benning, and Tim Murray who can't build a team any other way than to collect basement picks through years of futility. Same with the Oilers before McDavid. My claim isn't that tanking and collecting high draft picks year after year doesn't work (though I maintain it's not as successful a strategy as some believe); my claim is that building a successful young team doesn't require trading all your established assets, tanking, and collecting high draft picks if you have a competent manager. It's seriously not that hard to acquire 2nd-7th round picks if you're smart with your assets. And if you have an extra ~2 picks per draft, you're going to have pay offs eventually.
The myth I wish to dispel here is the supposed "rut of mediocrity" that says mediocre teams can't leave mediocrity without tearing things apart and living on NHL welfare for multiple years. It's just not true. That strategy is what incompetent organizations use. And, yes, for many of them, it works after 5-7 years (and for many others it doesn't work at all), but there is a path to success that is quicker and arguably more likely to work, and that path is being paved by Hextall. Like I said, I can't name another team in the league that's even attempted what Hextall has, but it IS replicable, and others should be taking notes.
