Can a player play without being in the NHLPA

[Doc Scurlock]

You do realize that pro-athletes only play into their mid 30's on average, if their lucky. Pretty much everyone else works up until their 60's. A player's pay window is much smaller then the rest of us. Yes, most of them get paid enough to more then compensate for that, but if average NHL players were only making $150,000 a year then they'd be screwed after they retired, especially with no pension.

And what's stopping an athlete from getting a job after they retire?

 

[ArtieAnisimov]

Just as a fact in baseball Barry Bonds isn't in the MLBPA. So his name isn't used in any MLB video games

 

[Fugu]

The lack of a union would be bad for both parties. Players would enjoy less benefits and security. The role players would particularly be hurt. Owners would see a splitting of the pie because a rival league would most likely pop up trying to scoop up the disgruntled players. It would create a great situation for some, but it would be horrible for the game on the whole.

Do sports leagues outside of the US and Canada have player unions?

I'm not asking just you, but the board in general. For example, are European football players part of a players' union?

 

[jax00]

No wonder Barry Bonds isn't in that Baseball game I bought...

 

[Gwyddbwyll]

Do sports leagues outside of the US and Canada have player unions?

I'm not asking just you, but the board in general. For example, are European football players part of a players' union?

Yes they are. I dont think they're as powerful as their NA equivalents though.

 

[Fugu]

Yes they are. I dont think they're as powerful as their NA equivalents though.

So are players in the top leagues there mistreated or subject to severe restrictions on their mobility? I know there are transfer fees and such, but am not fully clear on how that works if a player isn't currently under a contract. Are they in fact treated as if they're pieces of property, and to what extent?

 

[GSC2k2*]

So are players in the top leagues there mistreated or subject to severe restrictions on their mobility? I know there are transfer fees and such, but am not fully clear on how that works if a player isn't currently under a contract. Are they in fact treated as if they're pieces of property, and to what extent?

I have heard that players in the Swiss elite leagues live on nothing but milk duds and Diet Pepsi, and are forced to watch "Full House" marathons every Friday night. If that ain't mistreatment, I don't know what is.

Of course, Gary Bettman has had a hand in that ...

 

[David Singleton]

I have heard that players in the Swiss elite leagues live on nothing but milk duds and Diet Pepsi, and are forced to watch "Full House" marathons every Friday night. If that ain't mistreatment, I don't know what is.

Of course, Gary Bettman has had a hand in that ...

Yeah, but their Milk Duds are coated with Swiss chocolate!

 

[Ranfordrocks]

if your making 150,000 a year for 10 years and then retire.

if your smarts and invest that u could live on that for alot of years.

alot better then average joe who makes 1/4 of that.

 

[Fugu]

I have heard that players in the Swiss elite leagues live on nothing but milk duds and Diet Pepsi, and are forced to watch "Full House" marathons every Friday night. If that ain't mistreatment, I don't know what is.

Of course, Gary Bettman has had a hand in that ...

Cute, but it doesn't address the question. Is there a free market of sorts at play in these other leagues? Everyone seemed to be certain that a lack of a union meant all players would be playing for peanuts. This position has as its basis that there would be no competition amongst teams within the same league, or between leagues for a finite pool of talent.

Swiss chocolate coated anything is, of course, a huge benefit.

 

[Crazy_Ike]

I have heard that players in the Swiss elite leagues live on nothing but milk duds and Diet Pepsi, and are forced to watch "Full House" marathons every Friday night. If that ain't mistreatment, I don't know what is.

Of course, Gary Bettman has had a hand in that ...

Diet Pepsi? Full House marathons?

No one is that inhuman.

 

[Sotnos]

Cute, but it doesn't address the question. Is there a free market of sorts at play in these other leagues? Everyone seemed to be certain that a lack of a union meant all players would be playing for peanuts. This position has as its basis that there would be no competition amongst teams within the same league, or between leagues for a finite pool of talent.

For Sweden, I found this old article about the forming of the Swedish player's union. It outlines a few things in the agreement.

Also found this, Sveriges Ishockeyspelares Centralorganisation, which looks like a union, but there's not a lot of it in English. Not sure if we get a lot of non-North Americans on this board, but maybe some of them can help us out with this info.

As for players without a union playing for peanuts, wasn't that what NHL players were doing without a union? There have to be some ground rules for dealings between players and ownership, otherwise it's a mess like it was in the bad old days.

 

[GSC2k2*]

They do get regular Pepsi on game days, when they need to carb-load ...

 

[GSC2k2*]

Also found this, Sveriges Ishockeyspelares Centralorganisation, which looks like a union, but there's not a lot of it in English. Not sure if we get a lot of non-North Americans on this board, but maybe some of them can help us out with this info.

I can read Swedish. It says:

"FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, HELP US!!!! WE'RE SICK AND TIRED OF %%^#$@#ING MILK DUDS!!!!"

 

[GSC2k2*]

if your making 150,000 a year for 10 years and then retire.

if your smarts and invest that u could live on that for alot of years.

alot better then average joe who makes 1/4 of that.

Um, not really ...

 

[Fugu]

For Sweden, I found this old article about the forming of the Swedish player's union. It outlines a few things in the agreement.

Also found this, Sveriges Ishockeyspelares Centralorganisation, which looks like a union, but there's not a lot of it in English. Not sure if we get a lot of non-North Americans on this board, but maybe some of them can help us out with this info.

As for players without a union playing for peanuts, wasn't that what NHL players were doing without a union? There have to be some ground rules for dealings between players and ownership, otherwise it's a mess like it was in the bad old days.

Well, welcome to a globalized economy and a globalized workforce. The NHL is a good example of having been the league that attracted all the best players in the world. No one else was able to compete for that particular level of talent. I think that still holds for the top tier, but there are some changes. To what extent, I don't know yet, but there are examples of Russian or other European players preferring to stay home now because they can do just as well there. In an ideal environment where there are no other obstacles to the movement of hockey 'labor' a competition for talent should ensue between all the leagues that hire players, and all the teams within a league. I'm not convinced that a union, if powerful enough, isn't better for the majority of players, but there are questions as to just how bad it can get when there is some competition. I don't think this was the same 40 years ago, and keep in mind that free agency was forced on pro teams here. That changed things more than anything else, I think.

 

[Sotnos]

Well, welcome to a globalized economy and a globalized workforce. The NHL is a good example of having been the league that attracted all the best players in the world. No one else was able to compete for that particular level of talent. I think that still holds for the top tier, but there are some changes. To what extent, I don't know yet, but there are examples of Russian or other European players preferring to stay home now because they can do just as well there. In an ideal environment where there are no other obstacles to the movement of hockey 'labor' a competition for talent should ensue between all the leagues that hire players, and all the teams within a league. I'm not convinced that a union, if powerful enough, isn't better for the majority of players, but there are questions as to just how bad it can get when there is some competition. I don't think this was the same 40 years ago, and keep in mind that free agency was forced on pro teams here. That changed things more than anything else, I think.

I'm not against competition, players have a lot more freedom of movement and more options than they used to, which is good. Competition from European leagues is fine. I'm for ensuring rules about things like salary disclosure, guaranteed contracts etc. Hard to have those kind of things without a player's union, I'd think, though having been forced to pay dues to a union in one job I had (that didn't seem to benefit me in any real way) I'm indifferent about unions in some fields.

 

[Fugu]

I'm not against competition, players have a lot more freedom of movement and more options than they used to, which is good. Competition from European leagues is fine. I'm for ensuring rules about things like salary disclosure, guaranteed contracts etc. Hard to have those kind of things without a player's union, I'd think, though having been forced to pay dues to a union in one job I had (that didn't seem to benefit me in any real way) I'm indifferent about unions in some fields.

Well if people wanted to get serious about the discussion, I still think the biggest difference is the free agency rights won by players. Outlawing the reserve clause was the big step in North America. I just did a quick search and discovered something called the Bosman Ruling in the EU, which outlawed transfer fees clubs could charge after a player completed his contract. As might be expected, some players then went on to become quite wealthy, including sharing in TV and other team revenues...prompting teams to want to put caps in place. Hmmm.