C/W Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Ässät, Liiga (2018, 3rd, MTL)

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Tv9924

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I'm very surprised Pronman has Kotkaniemi at 4, he usually over-values the small speedy guys and under-values the big guys who aren't terribly dynamic. Very interested to see how the draft goes. I know Bob Mackenzie said a few weeks ago that he wouldn't be surprised if Kotkaniemi went as high as 3.
 
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StatisticsAddict99

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I'm very surprised Pronman has Kotkaniemi at 4, he usually over-values the small speedy guys and under-values the big guys who aren't terribly dynamic. Very interested to see how the draft goes. I know Bob Mackenzie said a few weeks ago that he wouldn't be surprised if Kotkaniemi went as high as 3.

I’ve watched Kotkaniemi a little bit(mostly highlights), the kid is extremely smart, can pass very well, stickhandle extremely well, has a wicked shot and a takeaway machine, looks allot like a Datsuyk IMO. If the draft didn’t have Boqvist, Hughes, Zadina, Dobson behind Svechnikov and Dahlin I would have him 3rd but it does, though I’m not fond of Pronman I do not blame him for this one because this kid is real good.
 
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NotProkofievian

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He was in surgery at summer and hasn't returned yet. I think he is back in training but he is wearing non-contact jersey.

Too bad that he has missed about a half of season but he should return to play in one month or so.

This is a blast from the past, but do you know what injury he had to have surgery for?
 

BB88

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Jan 19, 2015
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I’ve read so much hype about him post draft lottery.

I’m not against astronomical risers, but when they are jumping up the charts when the season is over and most hockey is done, I get skeptical. What has changed now to when he was actually playing hockey? Is he getting too much love because he’s the only good center prospect in the top ~10?

Does he realistically have the offensive skill set to put up 70 point seasons? (which is a top line center to me, and what I would want out of a good draft’s top 5.)

I would be disappointed if Ottawa took him at #4 and his potential is a 2C...however likely he is to reach that spot.

European prospects can easily be lost or get very little hype, Kotkaniemi put up a really good season in Liiga, and he has the frame, C potential, and is one of the youngest prospects in this draft. He also finished his season as well as you could hope for. Won gold at a stage where eyes were on him.

I don't really know or want to say where he should go but I like prospects who show development throughout the season and end the season like Kotkaniemi. For example look at Vesalainen. It's nice to build on this next season.

Pro numbers on draft year rarely make people go wow and crazy on the prospects.
 
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Kipper933

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I'm very surprised Pronman has Kotkaniemi at 4, he usually over-values the small speedy guys and under-values the big guys who aren't terribly dynamic. Very interested to see how the draft goes. I know Bob Mackenzie said a few weeks ago that he wouldn't be surprised if Kotkaniemi went as high as 3.

Pronman is all about puck possession. Any player that can can control the puck, stickhandle, and create offense is high on his lists.
 

Filthy Dangles

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Someone who's more familiar, how rare is it to score 30 points in their SM-Liiga draft year? Barkov had 50 for comparison.
 

NotProkofievian

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Someone who's more familiar, how rare is it to score 30 points in their SM-Liiga draft year? Barkov had 50 for comparison.

1.
2.png
Aleksander Barkov (C)
2012-2013Tappara532127480.91818
2.
2.png
Mikael Granlund (RW/C)
2009-2010HIFK431327400.93211
3.
2.png
Patrik Laine (RW/LW)
2015-2016Tappara461716330.7266
4.
2.png
Artturi Lehkonen (LW/RW)
2012-2013KalPa451416300.671212
5.
2.png
Jari Torkki (RW/LW)
1982-1983Lukko341317300.8834-30
6.
2.png
Joel Armia (RW)
2010-2011Ässät481811290.60249
7.
2.png
Jesperi Kotkaniemi (C)
2017-2018Ässät571019290.5120-1
8.
2.png
Jesse Puljujärvi (RW/LW)
2015-2016Kärpät501315280.56225
9.
2.png
Juuso Ikonen (RW/LW)
2012-2013Blues571313260.4641
10.
2.png
Risto Jalo (C)
1979-1980KOOVEE321310230.7216-41
11.
2.png
Reijo Ruotsalainen (D)
1977-1978Kärpät30914230.774-6
12.
2.png
Tuomo Ruutu (LW/RW)
2000-2001Jokerit471111220.47867
13.
2.png
Juha Jyrkkiö (LW)
1976-1977FPS34147210.6237
14.
2.png
Timo Jutila (D)
1980-1981Tappara36912210.584426
15.
2.png
Teuvo Teräväinen (W/C)
2011-2012Jokerit40117180.456-5
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

U18 Liiga scoring. Mikko Rantanen is absent from this list because he was a U19 player in his draft year.
 

Hockeyisl1fe

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Dec 8, 2016
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Someone who's more familiar, how rare is it to score 30 points in their SM-Liiga draft year? Barkov had 50 for comparison.
I answered you already in another thread, but his production is very comparable to any recent highly drafted Finns from the FEL, especially considering his age. Another thing is that he suffered from quite a lot of injuries in his junior years, so him being able to play and produce as much in the FEL is encouraging. You brought up Barkov; he was a freak of a nature physically and looked like a veteran center at 16 haha. Not really a fair comparison for Kotkaniemi given the backgrounds for both. However, what's really interesting is that their junior production before the FEL was nearly identical in the u20 league and Kotkaniemi actually producing more in international games. There could be surprisingly lot of hidden offensive potential with Kotkaniemi.
 
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ijuka

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May 14, 2016
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Someone who's more familiar, how rare is it to score 30 points in their SM-Liiga draft year? Barkov had 50 for comparison.
Pretty rare. Assuming no overagers, the recent players that come to mind are Barkov, Granlund, Laine and Lehkonen. Players who are very close to 30 are Puljujärvi and Armia.

The only one with such production that didn't become an NHL player that comes to mind is Juuso Ikonen.

edit: Ah, that chart is more useful.
 
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NotProkofievian

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I answered you already in another thread, but his production is very comparable to any recent highly drafted Finns from the FEL, especially considering his age. Another thing is that he suffered from quite a lot of injuries in his junior years, so him being able to play and produce as much in the FEL is encouraging. You brought up Barkov; he was a freak of a nature physically and looked like a veteran center at 16 haha. Not really a fair comparison for Kotkaniemi given the backgrounds for both. However, what's really interesting is that their junior production before the FEL was nearly identical in the u20 league and Kotkaniemi actually producing more in international games. There could be surprisingly lot of hidden offensive potential with Kotkaniemi.

Do you happen to know what injuries Jesperi suffered and when?
 

Kraken Jokes

Registered User
May 28, 2010
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1.
2.png
Aleksander Barkov (C)
2012-2013Tappara532127480.91818
2.
2.png
Mikael Granlund (RW/C)
2009-2010HIFK431327400.93211
3.
2.png
Patrik Laine (RW/LW)
2015-2016Tappara461716330.7266
4.
2.png
Artturi Lehkonen (LW/RW)
2012-2013KalPa451416300.671212
5.
2.png
Jari Torkki (RW/LW)
1982-1983Lukko341317300.8834-30
6.
2.png
Joel Armia (RW)
2010-2011Ässät481811290.60249
7.
2.png
Jesperi Kotkaniemi (C)
2017-2018Ässät571019290.5120-1
8.
2.png
Jesse Puljujärvi (RW/LW)
2015-2016Kärpät501315280.56225
9.
2.png
Juuso Ikonen (RW/LW)
2012-2013Blues571313260.4641
10.
2.png
Risto Jalo (C)
1979-1980KOOVEE321310230.7216-41
11.
2.png
Reijo Ruotsalainen (D)
1977-1978Kärpät30914230.774-6
12.
2.png
Tuomo Ruutu (LW/RW)
2000-2001Jokerit471111220.47867
13.
2.png
Juha Jyrkkiö (LW)
1976-1977FPS34147210.6237
14.
2.png
Timo Jutila (D)
1980-1981Tappara36912210.584426
15.
2.png
Teuvo Teräväinen (W/C)
2011-2012Jokerit40117180.456-5
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
U18 Liiga scoring. Mikko Rantanen is absent from this list because he was a U19 player in his draft year.

Armia surprises me since he turned out to be more of a defensive shut-down specialist at the NHL level.
 

Peeps

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May 24, 2017
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I’ve read so much hype about him post draft lottery.

I’m not against astronomical risers, but when they are jumping up the charts when the season is over and most hockey is done, I get skeptical. What has changed now to when he was actually playing hockey? Is he getting too much love because he’s the only good center prospect in the top ~10?

Does he realistically have the offensive skill set to put up 70 point seasons? (which is a top line center to me, and what I would want out of a good draft’s top 5.)

I would be disappointed if Ottawa took him at #4 and his potential is a 2C...however likely he is to reach that spot.

I mean RNH got picked 1st OV and he's not even a 60pts player.

You take what you can get at the draft. There isn't always the 70+ pts player each year.
 
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NotProkofievian

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Armia surprises me since he turned out to be more of a defensive shut-down specialist at the NHL level.

I remember him being a sniper with slick moves in his draft year, and being butt mad that Buffalo took him 1 selection before Montreal's pick, which turned out to be N8 the Gr8.
 

IceHockeyDude

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May 15, 2011
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Armia surprises me since he turned out to be more of a defensive shut-down specialist at the NHL level.

That turned out to be the only role possible for him to take in the NHL level. He is a natural scorer but not in NHL which makes him a really dangerous 3rd-4th line winger.
 

StatisticsAddict99

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Feb 24, 2017
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I mean RNH got picked 1st OV and he's not even a 60pts player.

You take what you can get at the draft. There isn't always the 70+ pts player each year.

There’s ussaully one Elite Center who can score 70 points in each draft, not sure if this draft has it, but Kotkaneimi(Veleno is pretty close too) is the best Center in this draft and if anyone is gonna be that Center for this draft it’s him(though it is a weak draft at the Center position).


2008 - Stamkos
2009 - Tavares,
2010 - Seguin
2011 - Scheifele, Courturier, Trocheck
2012 - x
2013 - Mackinnon/Barkov
2014 - Draisaitl
2015 - McDavid, Barzal( Eichel was on pace for 70+ as well)
2016 - x(yet, though Matthews was on pace, there’s no doubt he will hit that number though)
2017 - x(probably to early)
 

DaJackal

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Kotkaniemi took the U18 trophy to the grave of a late long-time equipment manager (might be inaccurate, but I couldn't think of a better translation - the Finnish word "huoltaja" doesn't elaborate what kind of staff member he was) of his FEL team.

"This Wold Championship is dedicated to the memory of Harri Palonen. Thanks for an immeasurable amount of help and support during several years." -Jesperi Kotkaniemi

I admit he could have taken the hat off his head, but a classy thing to do anyway.
 

Ippenator

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Knee injuries, the last one was in 2016 which required a surgergy. That made him miss the whole off season before 2016/17. Has stayed healthy since though.
Sounds a bit how it went for Laine. And he is already great. Of course if he wouldn’t have had his knee injuries at such a critical age, he could be already even clearly better than he is now. The same goes with Jesperi, I would think.
 

Kaako Kappo

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Kotkaniemi took the U18 trophy to the grave of a late long-time equipment manager (might be inaccurate, but I couldn't think of a better translation - the Finnish word "huoltaja" doesn't elaborate what kind of staff member he was) of his FEL team.

"This Wold Championship is dedicated to the memory of Harri Palonen. Thanks for an immeasurable amount of help and support during several years." -Jesperi Kotkaniemi

I admit he could have taken the hat off his head, but a classy thing to do anyway.

Would've been even classier if he didn't have a photo taken.
 
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Kaako Kappo

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How does taking a photo lessen the act? I get it that it can be interpreted as a publicity stunt, but that's not his fault. I guess he wanted to give credit for the guy and this way he got it done better than without a photo.
I don't think it's a publicity stunt, but when you do stuff like that and feel the need to take a photo, you should probably think about who you're doing it for. Why does everyone have to know? What purpose does it serve? You know the answer.
 
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ijuka

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Would've been even classier if he didn't have a photo taken.
This is where I'll disagree. You can't really bring any attention to a person's memory and make people think about them just by going to their grave. Something like this has far more meaning - Even if he was just publishing it on facebook among his small group of friends and wasn't a public figure. For instance, me quietly going to visit the grave of my grandma is quite different from me taking a picture of me visiting her grave and describing what she meant to me with a couple of words. One of the two is far more meaningful.
 

Kaako Kappo

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This is where I'll disagree. You can't really bring any attention to a person's memory and make people think about them just by going to their grave. Something like this has far more meaning - Even if he was just publishing it on facebook among his small group of friends and wasn't a public figure. For instance, me quietly going to visit the grave of my grandma is quite different from me taking a picture of me visiting her grave and describing what she meant to me with a couple of words. One of the two is far more meaningful.
To whose attention is he bringing his memory? Those who knew him will remember him, those who didn't don't.
 

DaJackal

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I don't think it's a publicity stunt, but when you do stuff like that and feel the need to take a photo, you should probably think about who you're doing it for. Why does everyone have to know? What purpose does it serve? You know the answer.

People like to take photos of meaningful events in their life. For kids of that generation it is completely normal to also share those photos in social media.

I believe that the family of Mr. Palonen doesn't think making this public made it any less classy. I even believe that they were asked whether it is ok or not to publish that photo. I don't know it for sure, but their opinion would be the only one I'd be concerned about.
 

Kaako Kappo

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People like to take photos of meaningful events in their life. For kids of that generation it is completely normal to also share those photos in social media.

I believe that the family of Mr. Palonen doesn't think making this public made it any less classy. I even believe that they were asked whether it is ok or not to publish that photo. I don't know it for sure, but their opinion would be the only one I'd be concerned about.
If you have to take proof of doing something thoughtful & good or tell about it to people, i cannot help but think that you did it to show everyone what a "good person" you are.
 
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