C Elias Pettersson - Växjö Lakers HC, SHL (2017, 5th, VAN) Part 2

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Cquant

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ok enough salt and pepper, im back to discuss real things.

Why was it that everyone overlooked Pettersson so much at the draft? He was ranked around 8-13 on most lists. But looking at his Draft year numbers, he put up ridiculous numbers in the Allsvensken, a men's league, as a 17/18 year old. Like, higher numbers than Filip Forsberg in his draft year (WAY higher) AND draft +1 year.

I remember there being 4 minor issues:
1) Size. He really needed to put on weight. But he knows this is a problem and has been working on it.
2) Skating. I'm speaking only from the couple of videos I saw of his draft year but he had some sort of weird technique here and there. He was a decent skater but could improve on it. It seems he has worked on it though.
3) Scoring in international tournaments. He didn't put up the points when the important scouts were watching. I mean we all hear about how important the Ivan Hlinka and the World Juniors are for draft rankings.
4) Uncertainty on whether he would play center or wing. Not as big a deal, but it does impact the draft ranking.

Either way he has improved on his draft year and is really impressing right now. Due to his history in international tournaments though, I'm not putting too much emphasis on his performance. I don't expect him to be top 10 in scoring at all, (I'll be happy if he doesn't get injured!)

I do remember him having the same line for international tournaments, I think it was Andersson centering with Elias on the right wing? Anyone remember what the line was exactly?
I wonder if he will play on that same line.
 

IComeInPeace

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Jun 16, 2009
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168 pounds now (from 161 when he was drafted).
Maybe 175-180 by training camp, as a realistic best case scenario.

I don’t think the size is going to be any issue in the end. I don’t know if he ever gets to 200+ pounds, but, I think he easily gets to 185-190 when he’s done, and in today’s game, that will be big enough.
His legs are really skinny. His skating will only benefit from increased strength in his legs.
 

ddawg1950

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Jul 2, 2010
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I'm actually rather curious about this tournament. He has not had that much success at the u20 level in the past, so it'll be interesting to see if he's able to perform and truly carry his team now that his scoring should land him as easily one of the best players of the tournament. Because he really should dominate and if he doesn't, it really would make one think, wouldn't it...
Based on one tournament?

Yeah.

No.
 

ijuka

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May 14, 2016
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Based on one tournament?

Yeah.

No.
Yes, yes. It's an important factor. Not the whole picture but still important.

Scouts also tend to focus strongly on u-20 tournament performance when evaluating prospects.
 

Love

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Feb 29, 2012
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Yes, yes. It's an important factor. Not the whole picture but still important.

Scouts also tend to focus strongly on u-20 tournament performance when evaluating prospects.

He dominates FAR better competition in the SHL... So why, exactly, should a very short tournament be such an important indicator? Because TSN? Because tradition?

I don't know about you, but I'll take Brock Boeser over Cody Hodgson every damn day. BB did nothing at the WJC and CH was unstoppable. Great. It means very little.
 

Healthy DiPietro

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Jan 4, 2014
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I'm actually rather curious about this tournament. He has not had that much success at the u20 level in the past, so it'll be interesting to see if he's able to perform and truly carry his team now that his scoring should land him as easily one of the best players of the tournament. Because he really should dominate and if he doesn't, it really would make one think, wouldn't it...

Not really, in the grand scheme of things a seven game tournament in a new environment means incredibly little. Even if he slowed down and finished with 'merely' a point per game in a full SHL season, that would be a more positive indication of his potential than if he won the WJC scoring race by 5 points.
 

Orca Smash

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Feb 9, 2012
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Yes, yes. It's an important factor. Not the whole picture but still important.

Scouts also tend to focus strongly on u-20 tournament performance when evaluating prospects.

That is often where mistakes are made, short lopsided tournaments over a small sample, with different teammates on different size rinks for some. Your right scouts do place alot of emphasis on it, but thats also why i disagree with publications and often nhl teams draft choices as well. I disagreed with petterssons low ranking before we even drafted him due to publications and others overlooking him due to size and his 2 week world jr performance.

Our management took juolevi based on this tournament and guys like boeser had an awful world jr, then finished with a historic ncaa season.
 
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93LEAFS

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That is often where mistakes are made, short lopsided tournaments over a small sample, with different teammates on different size rinks for some.

Our management took juolevi based on this tournament and guys like boeser had an awful world jr, then finished with a historic ncaa season.
Juolevi was taken just as much for his CHL playoffs and being a top defender on a Memorial Cup team. He was top 10 a lot of places even prior to the WJC.
 

Orca Smash

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Feb 9, 2012
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Juolevi was taken just as much for his CHL playoffs and being a top defender on a Memorial Cup team. He was top 10 a lot of places even prior to the WJC.

I am speaking from our management who were very high on him after his world jr performance on a stacked finish team. He might have been top 10 in some places, but wjc catapulted him into top 5 rankings ahead of others who are looking to track as better d-man, I always preferred sergachev over him based on my viewings and production in the regular season. I would also argue against getting high on a prospect just based on playoffs as well, I personally feel when judging talent you should look mostly at a players production during the regular season. If they excel in both or all three, all the better, but I dont ding players like hischier much for a short playoff, or get sky high on them after world jr either. Its about a larger sample size for me.
 
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lawrence

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Yes, yes. It's an important factor. Not the whole picture but still important.

Scouts also tend to focus strongly on u-20 tournament performance when evaluating prospects.

I don't find it important at all, although I be lying to tell you I didn't care if my prospects didn't make their national teams.

Remember these guys?

Cody Hodgson
Anton Rodin
Jordan Schroeder

these guys are former Canucks draft picks. What they have in common is that they lead their wjc teams in points either once or twice, and if they didn't lead their teams they put up a ton of points.
Schroeder actually holds the record for American player with the most points ever for the WJC.

where are they now. You tell me if their wjc performance mattered to where they are today.

Now lets look at the following players.

Bo Horvat
Bro Boeser
Jake Virtanen.

these 3 are the Canucks most recent top end picks that made their Countries WJC squad. Bo played once and the following year didn't play cause he was on the Canucks.
Boeser was hurt his in 2nd go around
Jake Virtanen well..... everyone hates him.

anyways, what do those guys have in common?

statistically all 3 of them didn't put up much points, infact combined, they have fewer points then anyone from my first 3 list. But they are in the NHL, one is a point per game guy as a 21 year old,
Jakes in the NHL, Horvat lead our team in scoring last year as a 21 year old.

Important factor my ass, it's more bragging rights then anything.
 
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ijuka

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Fantastic. Maybe it's been that way for Canucks. The truth is that he's a u20 player and a player like that's supposed to dominate. Another factor is that he failed to dominate the last time around as a u19 player, which already is more than enough for a player to have a strong performance. And by the way, "he was already playing in NHL as a u20 player" isn't some argument against WJC-20 scoring's importance. Come on.

I really don't care about getting Canucks-specific here. Here's the top 10 WJC-20 performers since lockout:

Brayden Schenn
Jesse Puljujärvi
Cody Hodgson
John Tavares
Derek Stepan
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Teuvo Teräväinen
Sebastian Aho
Jordan Eberle
Patrik Laine

All but one are in NHL. That's Hodgson. But his skills were still easily that of an NHL player, something you seem to have forgotten. Or do you think his WJC-20 success is the reason behind his back problems and other failures?

The general quality of these players? Extremely high. How many middling players are there, even? Puljujärvi is probably the worst right NOW, but he was u18. Pettersson will be u20. The rest range from top 6 to stars.

If you don't think it's worth thinking about if he doesn't have a good tournament, that's up to you. But I certainly do wonder why he wasn't successful the last time around or during the summer showcase.
 
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ddawg1950

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Yes, yes. It's an important factor. Not the whole picture but still important.

Scouts also tend to focus strongly on u-20 tournament performance when evaluating prospects.
Still no.

To be polite, one would say that it is foolish to judge anyone on their performance in one tournament.

“Not the whole picture, but still important.”

Only important if you know absolutely nothing about hockey.
 

lawrence

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May 19, 2012
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Fantastic. Maybe it's been that way for Canucks. The truth is that he's a u20 player and a player like that's supposed to dominate. Another factor is that he failed to dominate the last time around as a u19 player, which already is more than enough for a player to have a strong performance. And by the way, "he was already playing in NHL as a u20 player" isn't some argument against WJC-20 scoring's importance. Come on.

I really don't care about getting Canucks-specific here. Here's the top 10 WJC-20 performers since lockout:

Brayden Schenn
Jesse Puljujärvi
Cody Hodgson
John Tavares
Derek Stepan
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Teuvo Teräväinen
Sebastian Aho
Jordan Eberle
Patrik Laine

All but one are in NHL. That's Hodgson. But his skills were still easily that of an NHL player, something you seem to have forgotten. Or do you think his WJC-20 success is the reason behind his back problems and other failures?

The general quality of these players? Extremely high. How many middling players are there, even? Puljujärvi is probably the worst right NOW, but he was u18. Pettersson will be u20. The rest range from top 6 to stars.

If you don't think it's worth thinking about if he doesn't have a good tournament, that's up to you. But I certainly do wonder why he wasn't successful the last time around or during the summer showcase.

Why do you care if he has a good tournament or not ? Are you waiting to play the bust card on us ? I just don’t give a crap about this tournament when it comes to lighting it up, because I don’t think it matters in terms of nhl potential. Do you get what I mean ? I’m not discrediting the other players that did well and had good careers, absolutely not, I’ve seen enough prospects that did well and only to have marginal careers, or not so great careers, also seen many players make their junior teams didn’t do much in terms of stats, but had great careers.

It’s a short tournament, but again it will be nice if he lights it up. I’m more concerned about our prospects lighting it up during their regular seasons then short tournament.
 

WHISTLERNATE

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Nov 14, 2017
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I am just excited to see him play in the WJC. If he has a great tournament, great, if not,no big deal. An 8 or 9 game tournament is not going to define his career. What I do think will be telling is how his game will translate to NHL ice, and whether he will need a year in Utica to adapt.
 

WetcoastOrca

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Jun 3, 2011
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Fantastic. Maybe it's been that way for Canucks. The truth is that he's a u20 player and a player like that's supposed to dominate. Another factor is that he failed to dominate the last time around as a u19 player, which already is more than enough for a player to have a strong performance. And by the way, "he was already playing in NHL as a u20 player" isn't some argument against WJC-20 scoring's importance. Come on.

I really don't care about getting Canucks-specific here. Here's the top 10 WJC-20 performers since lockout:

Brayden Schenn
Jesse Puljujärvi
Cody Hodgson
John Tavares
Derek Stepan
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Teuvo Teräväinen
Sebastian Aho
Jordan Eberle
Patrik Laine

All but one are in NHL. That's Hodgson. But his skills were still easily that of an NHL player, something you seem to have forgotten. Or do you think his WJC-20 success is the reason behind his back problems and other failures?

The general quality of these players? Extremely high. How many middling players are there, even? Puljujärvi is probably the worst right NOW, but he was u18. Pettersson will be u20. The rest range from top 6 to stars.

If you don't think it's worth thinking about if he doesn't have a good tournament, that's up to you. But I certainly do wonder why he wasn't successful the last time around or during the summer showcase.
The players that lead the tournament tend to be NHL players. Beyond that though it's pretty meaningless in predicting how a prospect pans out. As someone else said Jordan Schroeder is still the most prolific US player. So what?
 

JAS 39 Gripen

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Jun 26, 2011
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I for one will use this tournament when I evaluate Elias season. Sure, hes putting up points in the SHL for now, but he did the same thing in the HA last year. The quality of competition in the SHL have gone down year after year, which isnt that weird since Sweden have somewhere around 130 players on contract in NHL/AHL, as well as a lot of players in the KHL or the NLA. The league (SHL) isnt what it once was. A lot of you dont take this in consideration.

Considering how bad Elias was this summer and last year vs NA-teams on smaller rinks, where his weeknesses (small, lanky, bad skating) were showing. Inability to raise his game in elimination games isnt something that just describes him - juniors in Sweden isnt quite used to be "the guy" on their teams, since a lot of them play secondary roles on their mens teams. This is a scene for them to show that they can step up in those situations. If Elias has another disappointing showing, where he falls to the ice in almost every challenge or dosn't produce, it sure as hell will affect peoples judgement of him, and rightfully so.

Heres for hoping that he wont suck, though
 
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Canucks LB

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I for one will use this tournament when I evaluate Elias season. Sure, hes putting up points in the SHL for now, but he did the same thing in the HA last year. The quality of competition in the SHL have gone down year after year, which isnt that weird since Sweden have somewhere around 130 players on contract in NHL/AHL, as well as a lot of players in the KHL or the NLA. The league (SHL) isnt what it once was. A lot of you dont take this in consideration.

Considering how bad Elias was this summer and last year vs NA-teams on smaller rinks, where his weeknesses (small, lanky, bad skating) were showing, as well as his inability to raise his game in elimination games, something that juniors in Sweden isnt quite used to, since a lot of them play secondary times on their mens teams. This is a scene for them to show that they can step up in those situations. If Elias has another dissapointing showing, where he falls to the ice in almost every challenge or dosnt produce, it sure as hell will affect peoples judgement of him, and rightfully so.

Heres for hoping that he wont suck, though
Wjc means nothing, boeser was average or bad and hes a potential superstar.

Elias can be garbage and wont change a thing. Its nice tho if he does well
 
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