By what measure was Savards #18 retired?

Weztex

Registered User
Feb 6, 2006
3,108
3,690
Not necessarily saying it shouldnt have been (well, actually I am), but does he really belong with the Rocket, Lafleur?.....Beliveau...Doug Harvey?

Does anyone really belong alongside those men? Pretty noble aspirations, I'll admit, but yeah, he deserves to have his sweater hoisted.

He was a ponderous defenceman who had a frightful bit of injuries after a great start that may have robbed him of much more than 1 second all star team selection. But so what?

When dealing with any sports legend, oversoming serious injuries is usually part of the myth. Savard did that and performed among the best in the game after coming back. Poderous? I dunno, if you're referring to a supposed lack of speed, it was the same criticism that came Harvey's way. Do not remember any other defenceman having a phrase coined about any of their manuevers, be it by Danny Gallivan or any other commentator. He did ponder, however and was one of the smartest guys on the ice in most games, also like Doug Harvey. In terms of losing out on All-Star mentions, I think it was more a matter of offencemen attracting the attention of fans and voters, as has been historical practice.

He was a member of the Big Three? Yes, the worst one. And the others havent had their numbers retired and it appears Lapointe will be overlooked.

They were known as The Big Three for a reason. If Savard didn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Robinson and Lapointe, they would have been referred to as The Big Two, Dominating Duo or some other moniker would have been stuck to them. That Robinson and Lapointe were able to put up such impressive offensive numbers was largely a function of them knowing that they could join the attack since Savard covered a lot of ground behind them, should things go awry. Doesn't seem fair to blame Savard for any lack or delay of honours to Lapointe.

In his prime, he was consistently behind Lapointe in the Norris votes and all star team votes. And if you watched, there was a good reason Lapointe was considered just behind Orr and Park and then Larry was up there with Potvin and Salming. Savard - great but not a superstar.

A restatement, on a wider scale, of the criticism you had about Savard being as significant as #19 or the #5 that hasn't yet been recognized. Once again you list an impressive array of offencemen, each and every one of them effective in their own end but more renowned for their eploits at the other end of the ice. There are still a few folks around who can appreciate the role of the guys who is there to stop opponents rather than score on them. Takes you away from your initial topic of discussion, which dealt with the Habs, not the NHL. Can not foresee any movement within the Montreal organization to retire sweaters from other teams.

He was also booed heavily near the end of his habs stint.

Which, if I'm not mistaken, puts him right up there alongside Morenz, Richard, Harvey, Beliveau, Geoffrion, Lafleur and many many more. By this reasoning, there shouldn't be any individual banners hanging from the rafters.

As Bring Back Doniar-Bucky likes to point out there was a nasty bit with the cops recently too.

It seems that the person to whom this opinion is attributed and their supposed frequent propagation of it is not accurate, the person credited with it denying the veracity in no uncertain terms.

I smell politics. 1 English 1 French like last year? Maybe old friend Gainey pulling strings?

Everything is political in Quebec. That being said I find it interesting that you would suggest that Mr. Gainey,who has never sought political office and is regarded as one of the game's most solid citizens, would lower himself to the point of favoring one ex-teammate over another, actually lobbying on his behalf.

In any case..... a travesty that a sublime human like Dryden had to share the spotlight

Never having met Mr. Dryden I can not comment from personal experience as to his character but I do seem to remember a young goaltender who walked out on a signed, valid contract when the team wouldn't grant his wish and renegotiate his salary upwards. His name ecapes me at the moment but I have always felt that the honourable thing to do, particularly for someone with a law degree in his hand, would have been to suck it up, play out the contract and then ask for more money the next time around.

I'm pretty sure there are a number of folks around the Leafs organization who do not share your glowing assessment of Mr. Dryden's moral worth.

Probably too ponderous a post to be entertaining but I felt that at least once, your merited the courtesy of a somewhat coherent reply.
:handclap:
 

chooch*

Guest
Not necessarily saying it shouldnt have been (well, actually I am), but does he really belong with the Rocket, Lafleur?.....Beliveau...Doug Harvey?

Does anyone really belong alongside those men? Pretty noble aspirations, I'll admit, but yeah, he deserves to have his sweater hoisted.

[I]Thats your opinion. But 19, 23, 1, 33, 29 wouldnt look too out of place with those Golden 5. 18 and 25 would.[/I]

He was a ponderous defenceman who had a frightful bit of injuries after a great start that may have robbed him of much more than 1 second all star team selection. But so what?

When dealing with any sports legend, oversoming serious injuries is usually part of the myth. Savard did that and performed among the best in the game after coming back. Poderous? I dunno, if you're referring to a supposed lack of speed, it was the same criticism that came Harvey's way. Do not remember any other defenceman having a phrase coined about any of their manuevers, be it by Danny Gallivan or any other commentator. He did ponder, however and was one of the smartest guys on the ice in most games, also like Doug Harvey. In terms of losing out on All-Star mentions, I think it was more a matter of offencemen attracting the attention of fans and voters, as has been historical practice.

[I]Just who is it that thinks Savard is a sports legend? Savard had many good offensive seasons contrary to your description of him as a defensive defenceman. And 1 second team alls star? Always behind Lapointe? and Harvey and Orr at least certainly were pulling off Savardian Spinarama's before Serge. You should find an account of Gallivans coming up with that phrase one night in Oakland. Had nothing to do with Serge. [/I]

He was a member of the Big Three? Yes, the worst one. And the others havent had their numbers retired and it appears Lapointe will be overlooked.

They were known as The Big Three for a reason. If Savard didn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Robinson and Lapointe, they would have been referred to as The Big Two, Dominating Duo or some other moniker would have been stuck to them. That Robinson and Lapointe were able to put up such impressive offensive numbers was largely a function of them knowing that they could join the attack since Savard covered a lot of ground behind them, should things go awry. Doesn't seem fair to blame Savard for any lack or delay of honours to Lapointe.

They were know as the Big Three but not necessarily equals. It was Red Fisher, a close friend of Serge who coined it. And Serge was great I admit defenseively but we're talking retiring numbers here.

In his prime, he was consistently behind Lapointe in the Norris votes and all star team votes. And if you watched, there was a good reason Lapointe was considered just behind Orr and Park and then Larry was up there with Potvin and Salming. Savard - great but not a superstar.

A restatement, on a wider scale, of the criticism you had about Savard being as significant as #19 or the #5 that hasn't yet been recognized. Once again you list an impressive array of offencemen, each and every one of them effective in their own end but more renowned for their eploits at the other end of the ice. There are still a few folks around who can appreciate the role of the guys who is there to stop opponents rather than score on them. Takes you away from your initial topic of discussion, which dealt with the Habs, not the NHL. Can not foresee any movement within the Montreal organization to retire sweaters from other teams.

The Habs are not just any other team; if you dont dominate league wide you shoudlnt have your number retired by Montreal. This isnt New Jersey (Daneyko) or Washington (Labre).
He was also booed heavily near the end of his habs stint.

Which, if I'm not mistaken, puts him right up there alongside Morenz, Richard, Harvey, Beliveau, Geoffrion, Lafleur and many many more. By this reasoning, there shouldn't be any individual banners hanging from the rafters.

Lafleur wasnt to my recollection. And I doubt the others were too save for Dryden and Bernie and that was for other reasons in 55.

As Bring Back Doniar-Bucky likes to point out there was a nasty bit with the cops recently too.

It seems that the person to whom this opinion is attributed and their supposed frequent propagation of it is not accurate, the person credited with it denying the veracity in no uncertain terms.

Huh?
I smell politics. 1 English 1 French like last year? Maybe old friend Gainey pulling strings?

Everything is political in Quebec. That being said I find it interesting that you would suggest that Mr. Gainey,who has never sought political office and is regarded as one of the game's most solid citizens, would lower himself to the point of favoring one ex-teammate over another, actually lobbying on his behalf.

I think you are overlooking that the team is very political. Read The Game. Mahov trade after punchup with Mario, Bunny playing at home Dryden booed.
Latendresse?

Gainey like all of humanity "favours" his friends.


In any case..... a travesty that a sublime human like Dryden had to share the spotlight

Never having met Mr. Dryden I can not comment from personal experience as to his character but I do seem to remember a young goaltender who walked out on a signed, valid contract when the team wouldn't grant his wish and renegotiate his salary upwards. His name ecapes me at the moment but I have always felt that the honourable thing to do, particularly for someone with a law degree in his hand, would have been to suck it up, play out the contract and then ask for more money the next time around.

The guy coudl be Prime Minsiter (but will never be) and if he did the country woudl be better off. Him and his dad are/were amazing people. I think you are holding a long grudge if you bring up a contract spat at age 25 especially given hos the Habs screwed Richard (heating oil salesman) and Lafleur

I'm pretty sure there are a number of folks around the Leafs organization who do not share your glowing assessment of Mr. Dryden's moral worth.

Who cares, after what happened at MLG and they brought in Dryden for his mmoral compass, the Leafs org has no credibility in this area.
Probably too ponderous a post to be entertaining but I felt that at least once, your merited the courtesy of a somewhat coherent reply.


Thanks for taking the time...usually,replies are on the order of stop sending personal messages or something...
 

justsomeguy

Registered User
Sep 2, 2004
599
1
Thats your opinion. But 19, 23, 1, 33, 29 wouldnt look too out of place with those Golden 5. 18 and 25 would

And that is yours. Should you make it to Montreal we ought to sit down over amber nectar and thrash it out more fully.

Just who is it that thinks Savard is a sports legend? Savard had many good offensive seasons contrary to your description of him as a defensive defenceman. And 1 second team alls star? Always behind Lapointe? and Harvey and Orr at least certainly were pulling off Savardian Spinarama's before Serge. You should find an account of Gallivans coming up with that phrase one night in Oakland. Had nothing to do with Serge.

Well, I do. So does Scotty Bowman, from his comments on tonight's broadcast. Larry Robinson mentioned that Savard covered up more mistakes than he can count and made it possible for him to jump into the attack, secure that his back was covered. Figure both those gentlemen are better placed than you or I to rate Savard's legacy.

More Stanley Cups than any other defenceman. A Conn Smythe as well. Did not play in a loss againt the Soviets, but played in the tie and all four wins. (coupled with Lapointe but I really don't think Pointu carried him) Did well for himself in the '76 Canada Cup too, if I remember correctly.

When it comes to All-Star selections - Chicks dig the long ball. So do voters. By making it possible for his partners to put up bigger numbers and get more acclaim he lessened his chances for individual distinctions.

Never claimed he was the first blueliner to do a 360. Only that his name got attached to the move. I do have an account of the origin of the Savardian Spinarama somewhere. Haven't checked it recently but really think there must have been a connection to Savard since the move did carry his name.

Agreed, he did have many fine offensive seasons, but he was noted for his calm, poised play under fire and his strength in his own end. He could do pretty much anything he put his mind to and, at the risk of offending, was a better all-around player than Lapointe, who had that big booming shot from the point to get him onto the highlight reels. Thi is not by any means a slagging of Guy Lapointe. After all it is no dishonour to be a runner-up to Serge Savard.

They were know as the Big Three but not necessarily equals. It was Red Fisher, a close friend of Serge who coined it. And Serge was great I admit defenseively but we're talking retiring numbers here

Nicknames only stick if they are an accurate reflection of reality. Think of Rocket Richard. Or Red Light Racicot. even if the dean of montreal hockey writers came up with the phrase it woul have quickly fallen by the wayside if it weren't accurate and bee nreplaced with something more appropriate. You've now mentioned that Savard had good offensive years and was great defensively. I knew you'd listen to reason, if given a chance.

The Habs are not just any other team; if you dont dominate league wide you shouldn't have your number retired by Montreal. This isnt New Jersey (Daneyko) or Washington (Labre).

He did dominate league-wide. He just wasn't spectacular about it most of the time. His contributions were often overlooked. Let's face it, what is a fan going to go away from a game remebering, Lafleur breaking down the wing, hair streaming in his wake as he willed multiple goals onto the scoresheet or the solid, steady,seamless play of the team's defensive general, cooly stifling enemy threats and relaunching his team's fortunes? I have great memories of Bobby Sheehan but would never put him up for immortality even though he was a lot of fun to watch.

Lafleur wasnt to my recollection. And I doubt the others were too save for Dryden and Bernie and that was for other reasons in 55.

Lafleur was. So were the others. Take my word for it. Or do the research, as you see fit.

I think you are overlooking that the team is very political. Read The Game. Mahov trade after punchup with Mario, Bunny playing at home Dryden booed.
Latendresse?

Gainey like all of humanity "favours" his friends.


Not sure how my remark that everything in Quebec is political would make you think that I felt the team and many of its operations weren't affected by the larger social climate. Have read The Game. Having lived here virtually all my life and equally at ease in either of this country's official languages, find that Mr. Dryden is a keener observer of the dynamic of a hockey team than of the Quebec political scene. He brings to the book an outsider's view, both of the lockerroom and of the other solitude. His distance from the other guys that wear the Sainte Flannelle serves him well as an author but his Toronto mentality and cultural biases shine through when he discusses provincial politics.

The Pete Mahovlich trade came after an extended period of time when his personality rubbed Lafleur the wrong way, according to a number of folks I've spoken with who were with or near the team at the time. Mahovlich's bigger than life exuberance wore thin on the much more reserved Lafleur is probably the simplest and most diplomatic way to put it. The incident with Tremblay simply acceleratred a process that had been started or anticipated some time earlier.

I like all of humanity, have a soft spot for my friends as well and when possible try to help them out. Was wondering how you came to ascertain that Gainey was more fond of Savard than say, (lets not harp on Lapointe) Robinson?

The guy coudl be Prime Minsiter (but will never be) and if he did the country woudl be better off. Him and his dad are/were amazing people. I think you are holding a long grudge if you bring up a contract spat at age 25 especially given hos the Habs screwed Richard (heating oil salesman) and Lafleur

Not sure how Murray Dryden and your opinions with regard to the fate of the country, should it fall into Dryden's hands ( We both agree it never will but I think I'm more pleased about this than you are) Have read a number of things about Murray Dryden and his devotion to making life a little easier for so many unfortunates around the world and have nothing but the greatest esteem for him. this, however has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Holding a long grudge, no. Ken Dryden came into the NHL as a college grad, someone portrayed as more mature, more intelligent and more responsible than his peers, he disn't necessarily pride himself on the differences between he and his teammates but he certainly gave me the impression that he felt sort of superior to the jocks. By 25, a person's moral character is usually pretty much already fully shaped, short of a 12-step program or something of that sort. At 25 folks are expected, in a society of laws, to be as good as their word, particularly when they sign their name to a contract. Figured a lawyer ought to know this, since most of his less educated peers didn't.

The stormy relationhip between the club and both Richard and Lafleur is not at all germane to the subject under discussion, but it must be note that in both cases the principals kissed and made up

Who cares, after what happened at MLG and they brought in Dryden for his mmoral compass, the Leafs org has no credibility in this area.

Who cares, well I do and since you brought up the character issue......

MLG had been in (to be restrained) disarray for a long time and it might not have been fair to expect Dryden to turn it around. Personally I think he was brought in as window dressing but somehow got the impression that he could and should make a difference. Don't think anyone can dispute that Savard's management career in hockey outstripped Dyryden's by several country miles.

I'm assuming that your previous post has one too many "m"s and isn't short an "i"

Think any further discussions on this matter ought to be conducted face to face, other wise we'll be needing footnotes. Bring a six-pack. It might take a while to thrash this out.
 

Ofuzz

Registered User
Jul 11, 2006
211
44
I'm not a fan...but Savard deseved this.

As said above.........I'm no Hab fan, but the fact is is that Dryden and Savard deserve to be retired together (even though Dryden's greatness is hard to prove). The Hab's of the 70's are arguably the greatest team of all-time. The 6 Cups along with ridiculously low goals against average are an atonement to an above-average-team. The fact that Dryden accompished his great stats while blocking only 15 shots a game is a compliment to the defenders (Savard, Lapointe, Robinson, [Pierre]Bouchard) who made sure he never saw a second shot after the initial save. Serge Savard was the flat out leader of this defense in the early 70's. He deserves this honour and I'm pretty sure that Dryden knows that he wouldn't be honoured himself if it weren't for Savard.

As usual, this retirement celebration in Montreal was well planned, well thought out.........and most appropriate.
 

mcphee

Registered User
Feb 6, 2003
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Justsomeguy, you sum up Savard's worth very well. On every great 'team' there are players that have a sense of what the team needs from them. Usually there's a great coach involved who can sell the players on specific roles,but great teams have players who understand what's needed.

Savard had an innate sense of what the team needed,game in game out. If Serge was paired with Nyrop every night, I'd think he'd have been on the attack more.

At the time, lapointe was my favorite, he was more in your face, he'd force the play at both ends of the rink. Savard just steadily got the puck where it needed to be and did what was needed. Any account of those days from the players tells what they thought of his role.

Regarding political situations around the team historically, it's always bothered me how simple conflict brought on by people spending too much time together is deemed political. Chooch mentionned the Peter M/ Tremblay fight as related in The Game. I'm not sure whether he was saying that the spat was politically motivated or just perceived as such. A is false,B is true. Peter had some problems in those days, 2 guys got into it. It happens. The papers mentionned the fact that the players were from our then 2 solitudes, but I believe alcohol more than language fueled that punchup.

Richard/McNeil was portrayed as language related, a fact that dismayed and embarassed Henri Richard, from what I've read. A guy full of pride gets benched in a final and reacts. The only political angle is the one imposed.


I was surprised by your comments about Peter M getting dealt. BY that time, Lemaire had replaced him and the 2nd line on the 70's team always seemed to be a transition line. Mahovlich was always a Bowman whipping boy and I wondered if Bowman had grown tired of his act, or the city itself had grown tired of his antics. If you say it, I believe you in terms of Lafleur's involvement, I had never heard that one before though.

Notice how Savard brough attention to the Peter M's and Lambert's of the team ? Great players understand what it takes to make great teams. Notice the footage of Beliveau running a give'n'go with Savard or Savard trading puches with Schultz, shedding some mystique in the process ? Defing who gets his sweater retired is a worthwhile discussion, but watching the ceremony brought back some nice memories and made me feel good, it's hard to find fault wit that. Can't wait for #29,#19, #33 and whoever else they choose.
 

chooch*

Guest
Thats your opinion. But 19, 23, 1, 33, 29 wouldnt look too out of place with those Golden 5. 18 and 25 would

And that is yours. Should you make it to Montreal we ought to sit down over amber nectar and thrash it out more fully.

Just who is it that thinks Savard is a sports legend? Savard had many good offensive seasons contrary to your description of him as a defensive defenceman. And 1 second team alls star? Always behind Lapointe? and Harvey and Orr at least certainly were pulling off Savardian Spinarama's before Serge. You should find an account of Gallivans coming up with that phrase one night in Oakland. Had nothing to do with Serge.

Well, I do. So does Scotty Bowman, from his comments on tonight's broadcast. Larry Robinson mentioned that Savard covered up more mistakes than he can count and made it possible for him to jump into the attack, secure that his back was covered. Figure both those gentlemen are better placed than you or I to rate Savard's legacy.

More Stanley Cups than any other defenceman. A Conn Smythe as well. Did not play in a loss againt the Soviets, but played in the tie and all four wins. (coupled with Lapointe but I really don't think Pointu carried him) Did well for himself in the '76 Canada Cup too, if I remember correctly.

When it comes to All-Star selections - Chicks dig the long ball. So do voters. By making it possible for his partners to put up bigger numbers and get more acclaim he lessened his chances for individual distinctions.

Never claimed he was the first blueliner to do a 360. Only that his name got attached to the move. I do have an account of the origin of the Savardian Spinarama somewhere. Haven't checked it recently but really think there must have been a connection to Savard since the move did carry his name.

Agreed, he did have many fine offensive seasons, but he was noted for his calm, poised play under fire and his strength in his own end. He could do pretty much anything he put his mind to and, at the risk of offending, was a better all-around player than Lapointe, who had that big booming shot from the point to get him onto the highlight reels. Thi is not by any means a slagging of Guy Lapointe. After all it is no dishonour to be a runner-up to Serge Savard.

They were know as the Big Three but not necessarily equals. It was Red Fisher, a close friend of Serge who coined it. And Serge was great I admit defenseively but we're talking retiring numbers here

Nicknames only stick if they are an accurate reflection of reality. Think of Rocket Richard. Or Red Light Racicot. even if the dean of montreal hockey writers came up with the phrase it woul have quickly fallen by the wayside if it weren't accurate and bee nreplaced with something more appropriate. You've now mentioned that Savard had good offensive years and was great defensively. I knew you'd listen to reason, if given a chance.

The Habs are not just any other team; if you dont dominate league wide you shouldn't have your number retired by Montreal. This isnt New Jersey (Daneyko) or Washington (Labre).

He did dominate league-wide. He just wasn't spectacular about it most of the time. His contributions were often overlooked. Let's face it, what is a fan going to go away from a game remebering, Lafleur breaking down the wing, hair streaming in his wake as he willed multiple goals onto the scoresheet or the solid, steady,seamless play of the team's defensive general, cooly stifling enemy threats and relaunching his team's fortunes? I have great memories of Bobby Sheehan but would never put him up for immortality even though he was a lot of fun to watch.

Lafleur wasnt to my recollection. And I doubt the others were too save for Dryden and Bernie and that was for other reasons in 55.

Lafleur was. So were the others. Take my word for it. Or do the research, as you see fit.

I think you are overlooking that the team is very political. Read The Game. Mahov trade after punchup with Mario, Bunny playing at home Dryden booed.
Latendresse?

Gainey like all of humanity "favours" his friends.


Not sure how my remark that everything in Quebec is political would make you think that I felt the team and many of its operations weren't affected by the larger social climate. Have read The Game. Having lived here virtually all my life and equally at ease in either of this country's official languages, find that Mr. Dryden is a keener observer of the dynamic of a hockey team than of the Quebec political scene. He brings to the book an outsider's view, both of the lockerroom and of the other solitude. His distance from the other guys that wear the Sainte Flannelle serves him well as an author but his Toronto mentality and cultural biases shine through when he discusses provincial politics.

The Pete Mahovlich trade came after an extended period of time when his personality rubbed Lafleur the wrong way, according to a number of folks I've spoken with who were with or near the team at the time. Mahovlich's bigger than life exuberance wore thin on the much more reserved Lafleur is probably the simplest and most diplomatic way to put it. The incident with Tremblay simply acceleratred a process that had been started or anticipated some time earlier.

I like all of humanity, have a soft spot for my friends as well and when possible try to help them out. Was wondering how you came to ascertain that Gainey was more fond of Savard than say, (lets not harp on Lapointe) Robinson?

The guy coudl be Prime Minsiter (but will never be) and if he did the country woudl be better off. Him and his dad are/were amazing people. I think you are holding a long grudge if you bring up a contract spat at age 25 especially given hos the Habs screwed Richard (heating oil salesman) and Lafleur

Not sure how Murray Dryden and your opinions with regard to the fate of the country, should it fall into Dryden's hands ( We both agree it never will but I think I'm more pleased about this than you are) Have read a number of things about Murray Dryden and his devotion to making life a little easier for so many unfortunates around the world and have nothing but the greatest esteem for him. this, however has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Holding a long grudge, no. Ken Dryden came into the NHL as a college grad, someone portrayed as more mature, more intelligent and more responsible than his peers, he disn't necessarily pride himself on the differences between he and his teammates but he certainly gave me the impression that he felt sort of superior to the jocks. By 25, a person's moral character is usually pretty much already fully shaped, short of a 12-step program or something of that sort. At 25 folks are expected, in a society of laws, to be as good as their word, particularly when they sign their name to a contract. Figured a lawyer ought to know this, since most of his less educated peers didn't.

The stormy relationhip between the club and both Richard and Lafleur is not at all germane to the subject under discussion, but it must be note that in both cases the principals kissed and made up

Who cares, after what happened at MLG and they brought in Dryden for his mmoral compass, the Leafs org has no credibility in this area.

Who cares, well I do and since you brought up the character issue......

MLG had been in (to be restrained) disarray for a long time and it might not have been fair to expect Dryden to turn it around. Personally I think he was brought in as window dressing but somehow got the impression that he could and should make a difference. Don't think anyone can dispute that Savard's management career in hockey outstripped Dyryden's by several country miles.

I'm assuming that your previous post has one too many "m"s and isn't short an "i"

Think any further discussions on this matter ought to be conducted face to face, other wise we'll be needing footnotes. Bring a six-pack. It might take a while to thrash this out.

Next time... I'm in my old hometown visiting the folks I'll pm you and mcphee and we can meet over some macauslans (no not at your office at wanda's, mcphee) and I can try and understand why such an "unsung" superstar rightfully had his jersey in the rafters. Maybe 21 is next then for the 2 unsung players who are the current coaches.

Here in Hogtown nothing was shown of last nights ceremony, so if someone will kindly post on youtube I woudl appreciate it. I guess when the Leafs retire 28, it'l be broadcast nationally.
 

Riffo*

Guest
I fell off my chair when I heard some of the shirt the Habs were considering to be retiring, ie Gainey and Cournoyer, but I always thought Savard deserved it.
 

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