Burlington Group Approached NHL for possible 2nd GTA/S.O. Franchise

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Okay last post because we are way off topic. The coyotes are still looking for a place in Phoenix. The coyotes have given no indication their moving, and Jacobs just implied Houston will be expansion. I don't see where the league can be kept to 32 teams at all. But I digress, we're off topic.

WHY WOULD THE COYOTES ever consider Phoenix again, MM, the Suns are the impediment to any franchise locating there, and the clock is ticking on Chase Field now with recent developments there with the D-Backs relocating from there by 2023. Arizona isn't returning to pre 2003 TSRA, so that narrative needs to stop or be acknowledged.

 

[Melrose Munch]

WHY WOULD THE COYOTES ever consider Phoenix again, MM, the Suns are the impediment to any franchise locating there, and the clock is ticking on Chase Field now with recent developments there with the D-Backs relocating from there by 2023. Arizona isn't returning to pre 2003 TSRA, so that narrative needs to stop or be acknowledged.

I last heard they were looking in phoenix.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I last heard they were looking in phoenix.

they're not.... East Valley isn't Phoenix

 

[Melrose Munch]

they're not.... East Valley isn't Phoenix

ok. but they dont have a deal there either

 

[Bookie21]

they're not.... East Valley isn't Phoenix

It's close enough. It's right in the east valley border

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

It's close enough. It's right in the east valley border

so is a lot of things, but I don't consider Rosemont, IL Chicago, nor Bridgeview, IL, Chicago, although the Wolves and Fire claim they're Chicago....see the point.... I'LL give you another when is Kanata Ottawa.....

 

[rojac]

so is a lot of things, but I don't consider Rosemont, IL Chicago, nor Bridgeview, IL, Chicago, although the Wolves and Fire claim they're Chicago....see the point.... I'LL give you another when is Kanata Ottawa.....

Actually, on the last one, Kanata was amalgamated into Ottawa in 2001.

 

[Melrose Munch]

so is a lot of things, but I don't consider Rosemont, IL Chicago, nor Bridgeview, IL, Chicago, although the Wolves and Fire claim they're Chicago....see the point.... I'LL give you another when is Kanata Ottawa.....

what does it matter? in common society people identify with the big city.

 

[DowntownBooster]

they're not.... East Valley isn't Phoenix

It's close enough to be associated with Phoenix. Both the Giants and Jets of the NFL play in New Jersey yet identify themselves as New York.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

what does it matter? in common society people identify with the big city.

pet peeve, MM, you want to get those suburbs on the map, not have it all one big city

 

[JMROWE]

Look there will never be a 2nd Toronto team playing exclusive just to the Toronto market MLSE. will never allow it to happen plus the costs would be over a billion dollars that is why places like Vaughn & Markham attempts failed & that is why there trying Burlington now if that fails they are right back in Hamilton what dose that tell you it tells you it tells you that the most cost effective way to bring an 2nd regional NHL. team to southern Ontario is to either to renovate FirstOntario Center for about 250 million or build a new arena some where in the Hamilton area namely Burlington , Aldershot , Hamilton , Waterdown or Flambrough for about 350 - 450 million .

This won't happen for a while unless Jeremy Jacobs dies & we all hope that happens soon because he & his anti Hamilton propaganda has prevented a Regional team in southern Ontario (Hamilton) from taken root .

 

[gstommylee]

Look there will never be a 2nd Toronto team playing exclusive just to the Toronto market MLSE. will never allow it to happen plus the costs would be over a billion dollars that is why places like Vaughn & Markham attempts failed & that is why there trying Burlington now if that fails they are right back in Hamilton what dose that tell you it tells you it tells you that the most cost effective way to bring an 2nd regional NHL. team to southern Ontario is to either to renovate FirstOntario Center for about 250 million or build a new arena some where in the Hamilton area namely Burlington , Aldershot , Hamilton , Waterdown or Flambrough for about 350 - 450 million .

This won't happen for a while unless Jeremy Jacobs dies & we all hope that happens soon because he & his anti Hamilton propaganda has prevented a Regional team in southern Ontario (Hamilton) from taken root .

You do realize there is more than one owner that decides thing than Jacob and 2nd of all its not polite to wish death to anyone.

 

[Bookie21]

Look there will never be a 2nd Toronto team playing exclusive just to the Toronto market MLSE. will never allow it to happen plus the costs would be over a billion dollars that is why places like Vaughn & Markham attempts failed & that is why there trying Burlington now if that fails they are right back in Hamilton what dose that tell you it tells you it tells you that the most cost effective way to bring an 2nd regional NHL. team to southern Ontario is to either to renovate FirstOntario Center for about 250 million or build a new arena some where in the Hamilton area namely Burlington , Aldershot , Hamilton , Waterdown or Flambrough for about 350 - 450 million .

This won't happen for a while unless Jeremy Jacobs dies & we all hope that happens soon because he & his anti Hamilton propaganda has prevented a Regional team in southern Ontario (Hamilton) from taken root .

It has more to do with Buffalo and MLSE that Hamilton doesnt have a tean than it does Jacobs

 

[GuelphStormer]

It has more to do with Buffalo and MLSE that Hamilton doesnt have a tean than it does Jacobs

not really ... it was Jacobs who was primarily opposed to a team in Hamilton because of his personal and professional connexions to Buffalo as well as his hatred of Balsillie. indeed, it was Jacobs who glowed like a spelling bee winner when he stood up and (ironically) proclaimed Balsillie lacked the character necessary to be an NHL owner. it's personal, don't think otherwise.

 

[JMROWE]

It has more to do with Buffalo and MLSE that Hamilton doesnt have a tean than it does Jacobs

You could not be more wrong Jeremy Jacobs has almost made it his mission to keep a NHL. team out of Hamilton at all cost just look at how much it cost the NHL. to keep the Coyotes in Arizona when they could of just let Balsille move them to Hamilton where they would be playing most likely in new arena by now & be making money hand over fist but they choose to lose millions if not billions by now by keeping them in Arizona & why to protect the Sabers listen the sabers don't need protecting they are stable franchise that's fan base is 95% in western New York & the rest come from the Niagara region as for the leafs I think they would welcome 2nd NHL. team to southern Ontario (Hamilton\Burlington) to give them a little healthy competition & seeing a Toronto Hamilton rivalry on the ice would be awesome just look at a Tiger Cats & Argonauts in the CFL. .

 

[TheLegend]

You could not be more wrong Jeremy Jacobs has almost made it his mission to keep a NHL. team out of Hamilton at all cost just look at how much it cost the NHL. to keep the Coyotes in Arizona when they could of just let Balsille move them to Hamilton where they would be playing most likely in new arena by now & be making money hand over fist but they choose to lose millions if not billions by now by keeping them in Arizona & why to protect the Sabers listen the sabers don't need protecting they are stable franchise that's fan base is 95% in western New York & the rest come from the Niagara region as for the leafs I think they would welcome 2nd NHL. team to southern Ontario (Hamilton\Burlington) to give them a little healthy competition & seeing a Toronto Hamilton rivalry on the ice would be awesome just look at a Tiger Cats & Argonauts in the CFL. .

That’s a bit revisionistic.

It wasn’t just Jacobs’ mission... it was every other owner who voted 29-0 to keep him out.

There was one reason and one reason only why the league fought Balsillie’s attempt to move the Coyotes to Hamilton and that was not to open a gigantic Pandora’s Box on how and where franchises got located.

What they “lost” in not allowing the Coyotes is chump change compared to what might have happened had they not fought the move.

 

[GuelphStormer]

That’s a bit revisionistic.

It wasn’t just Jacobs’ mission... it was every other owner who voted 29-0 to keep him out.

There was one reason and one reason only why the league fought Balsillie’s attempt to move the Coyotes to Hamilton and that was not to open a gigantic Pandora’s Box on how and where franchises got located.

What they “lost” in not allowing the Coyotes is chump change compared to what might have happened had they not fought the move.

agreed, the league's desire to maintain control over franchise location was central to its case, but it's disingenuous to suggest that Jacobs' level of animosity towards balsillie was shared by all other owners. jacobs led the charge against balsillie, of that there can be no doubt. jacobs is a bully, other owners simply toed the line. he rejoiced in publicly criticizing balsillie and indeed, when chipman later voiced concern about the way things went down, he was summarily told to sit in the corner and mind his own business.

fwiw, what did the league/coyotes actually lose by fighting relocation? what's the tally so far? $100M? $200M in losses? public extortion? another $150M? add in expected revenues in Hamilton and I'd suggest the total cost is easily upwards of half billion dollars - hardly chump change. and let's also not think the way the NHL deceitfully treated Glendale hasn't crossed the minds of local decision makers in Scottsdale, Phoenix, ASU, Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, Seattle, Houston, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Sunrise ... folks trust Bettman even less now than they did, there is a cost to that.

 

[TheLegend]

agreed, the league's desire to maintain control over franchise location was central to its case, but it's disingenuous to suggest that Jacobs' level of animosity towards balsillie was shared by all other owners. jacobs led the charge against balsillie, of that there can be no doubt. jacobs is a bully, other owners simply toed the line. he rejoiced in publicly criticizing balsillie and indeed, when chipman later voiced concern about the way things went down, he was summarily told to sit in the corner and mind his own business.

fwiw, what did the league/coyotes actually lose by fighting relocation? what's the tally so far? $100M? $200M in losses? public extortion? another $150M? add in expected revenues in Hamilton and I'd suggest the total cost is easily upwards of half billion dollars - hardly chump change. and let's also not think the way the NHL deceitfully treated Glendale hasn't crossed the minds of local decision makers in Scottsdale, Phoenix, ASU, Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, Seattle, Houston, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Sunrise ... folks trust Bettman even less now than they did, there is a cost to that.

You have two expansion teams entering the league since the Coyotes BK which will bring in $1.15 billion to the owners. And the potential for another $650 million if Houston were to come in that way. PLUS their expected revenues.

You really think the $200 million in losses the Coyotes have allegedly generated really mean that much at this point???

 

[Grudy0]

agreed, the league's desire to maintain control over franchise location was central to its case, but it's disingenuous to suggest that Jacobs' level of animosity towards balsillie was shared by all other owners. jacobs led the charge against balsillie, of that there can be no doubt. jacobs is a bully, other owners simply toed the line. he rejoiced in publicly criticizing balsillie and indeed, when chipman later voiced concern about the way things went down, he was summarily told to sit in the corner and mind his own business.

No, the central theme to the case is that all prospective buyers must be approved by the League - a bankruptcy proceeding does not supercede League rules regarding ownership transfer.

Also, IIRC, the Chipman concerns that Jacobs supposedly squashed were about the lockout, not Balsillie.

fwiw, what did the league/coyotes actually lose by fighting relocation? what's the tally so far? $100M? $200M in losses? public extortion? another $150M? add in expected revenues in Hamilton and I'd suggest the total cost is easily upwards of half billion dollars - hardly chump change. and let's also not think the way the NHL deceitfully treated Glendale hasn't crossed the minds of local decision makers in Scottsdale, Phoenix, ASU, Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, Seattle, Houston, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Sunrise ... folks trust Bettman even less now than they did, there is a cost to that.

I don't understand the need for a math problem regarding expected revenues. The League, by virtue of the CBA, has a revenue redistribution plan that sets aside dollars to fund lower revenue teams; the pool of dollars is a fixed percentage of yearly revenues. If the Coyotes were moved to Hamilton, the Hamilton Coyotes owners would be the recipient of expected revenues, not the League.

And I'm not sure what the issue is with naming off all those cities - the local decision makers need to come to an agreement with the local teams, not Gary Bettman. The only true difference with that was when the League owned the Coyotes.

 

[Bookie21]

A lot of hate for Jacobs, and I'm not sure why. He is only 1 voice of the 31 members of the BOG. Theses other 30 are all intelligent and business savvy, they didn't get to where they are now by letting someone else dictate to them how to run their business. Everybody on the BOG had their own personal reasons why they didn't want Balsille, and the #1 reason being prospective buyers must be approved by the league, and he went rogue announcing relocation before he was an approved owner. You guys give way too much credit to Jacobs......he is not able to sway or dictate to other Billionaires how to vote regarding a situation like this

 

[WildGopher]

. . . This won't happen for a while unless Jeremy Jacobs dies & we all hope that happens soon because he & his anti Hamilton propaganda has prevented a Regional team in southern Ontario (Hamilton) from taken root .

I get it that everyone's passionate about their hockey here. But wanting a guy to die because he denied a city a team? If he even did that? Seriously?

 

[Bookie21]

I get it that everyone's passionate about their hockey here. But wanting a guy to die because he denied a city a team? If he even did that? Seriously?

Jacobs didn't deny a city a team. He was just 1 vote out of 30

 

[Jeffrey93]

That’s a bit revisionistic.

It wasn’t just Jacobs’ mission... it was every other owner who voted 29-0 to keep him out.

There was one reason and one reason only why the league fought Balsillie’s attempt to move the Coyotes to Hamilton and that was not to open a gigantic Pandora’s Box on how and where franchises got located.

What they “lost” in not allowing the Coyotes is chump change compared to what might have happened had they not fought the move.

They didn't fight the move. They fought the sale.

The league has no control over relocation, they do have control over ownership. They fought that they had a right to determine who gets to, and who doesn't get to, own an NHL team. They previously approved Balsillie as an Owner....which is what made it an interesting case.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Jacobs didn't deny a city a team. He was just 1 vote out of 30

True. But this is the grown-up world....and in the grown-up world....some people have pull and influence over other people.

Jacobs is known to be an influential owner.

 

[Jeffrey93]

In hindsight....I think the NHL would have been better served to have Balsillie remove his bid to purchase the Coyotes out of Bankruptcy and in exchange either be given an expansion franchise or simply sold the Coyotes to relocate under all conditions that were offered in the bankruptcy, but at the league's discretion.

That would include the $50M to Glendale.

Would've been the most cost-effective and beneficial for the league. Retain control, solve a problem and make more money.