Burlington Group Approached NHL for possible 2nd GTA/S.O. Franchise

[Jeffrey93]

Yes the NHL cares. If OVG offered only 285m to fix up key arena do you think we would gotten any serious discussion about putting a team in Seattle. No.

Seriously they gotten a 500m arena oug of MGM for vegas 600 redo (minus roof) of key arena for Seattle and suddenly a 250m investment in an arena is okay?

I'm not really sure what you're saying. I think you're saying that a bunch of idiots decided a roof is worth about $200M. And they're willing to pay double for a renovation that is normal except for the roof.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Anything can happen.

Seattle makes 32.

Suddenly a person shows up and offers the same $500M to get a team in Milwaukee, Kansas City, Houston, Portland, San Diego, or wherever else a multi-billionaire wants to put a team.

If the league feels like making another billion in expansion fees....they'll go to 34 (talent pool could handle about 48 temas). They'll deal with the person wanting a team in whichever of those locations.....then suddenly take whatever interest there is in the GTHA much more seriously. Because now they'll need it for balance....it will benefit them greatly....and they can justify forcing it on Toronto/Buffalo.

The NHL might not realize a huge value in TV $ from another team in the GTHA.....but a team in Houston might get them a bigger US deal. The Canadian deal would increase as well.....the new GTHA team isn't going to not have local and/or national broadcasts. It'd be silly to think nobody would pony up more dough to buy the rights to a new GTHA team.

All the excuses in the world. If Hamilton wanted a team they would have bid last time. End of story. We need to move on.

 

[GuelphStormer]

All the excuses in the world. If Hamilton wanted a team they would have bid last time. End of story. We need to move on.

remind me ... did Seattle submit a bid at that time?

 

[Melrose Munch]

remind me ... did Seattle submit a bid at that time?

No. But the NHL does not care about that as they are getting a team now.

 

[gstommylee]

I'm not really sure what you're saying. I think you're saying that a bunch of idiots decided a roof is worth about $200M. And they're willing to pay double for a renovation that is normal except for the roof.

No i am saying the ACEOM study thought all that needed to be done was do a 285m renovation to get it to NHL spec. If OVG just did exactly what the study suggested, there would be no NHL expansion to Seattle as the league would never approved of it. Leiweke (who builds arenas for a career) laughed at the study saying its going to cost way more than that.

All I am saying doing a cheap renovation/upgrade isn't exactly a good thing. Seattle back in 95 did exactly that and made it impossible to house hockey and look at what happened 13 years later. The team left.

First Ontario Centre, is 32 years old when orginal opened, its already out dated and more than likely already doesn't meet today league arena spec requirements. Its going to cost more than 250m in my opinion to renovate it to NHL specs.

Given what the NHL gotten recently in terms of arenas to new markets, i doubt they'll be impressed with that 250m investment.

 

[GuelphStormer]

No. But the NHL does not care about that as they are getting a team now.

perhaps I was too subtle ... you are 100% wrong ... that Hamilton did not submit an expansion bid at that time - just like Seattle - does not in any way mean a team is not wanted - just like Seattle.

 

[gstommylee]

perhaps I was too subtle ... you are 100% wrong ... that Hamilton did not submit an expansion bid at that time - just like Seattle - does not in any way mean a team is not wanted - just like Seattle.

It wouldn't had mattered if Hamilton did or not, the NHL would still went with Vegas only and still would have waited till Seattle had things all ready to start the expansion process again. I just don't think the NHL wants another eastern conference team.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Hamilton likely would have to do what Colorado's Eagles are being forced to do to bring their arena up to AHL Specs or what Quebec did when they transitioned from the Colisee to Centre Videotron.... the question is can Hamilton ask Ottawa to foot part of that renovation, to keep First Ontario Centre viable to events, not just hockey.

 

[Melrose Munch]

perhaps I was too subtle ... you are 100% wrong ... that Hamilton did not submit an expansion bid at that time - just like Seattle - does not in any way mean a team is not wanted - just like Seattle.

Gary asked why there was no bid. Remember the answer? It was too much money.

 

[Melrose Munch]

It wouldn't had mattered if Hamilton did or not, the NHL would still went with Vegas only and still would have waited till Seattle had things all ready to start the expansion process again. I just don't think the NHL wants another eastern conference team.

Hamiltion can play in the west. This is more about the Sabres then anything.

 

[gstommylee]

Hamiltin can play in the west. This is more about the Sabres then anything.

I don't think the NHL wants more than 32 teams. I also don't think the NHL wants a eastern time zone team playing in a mountain/central time zone division.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I don't think the NHL wants more than 32 teams. I also don't think the NHL wants a eastern time zone team playing in a mountain/central time zone division.

Look in the Quebec thread. Jacobs wants expansion to Houston. The goal is 34, not 32. They're going to beg one of Portland, Kansas City or Atlanta to make it 34 too.

 

[gstommylee]

Look in the Quebec thread. Jacobs wants expansion to Houston. The goal is 34, not 32. They're going to beg one of Portland, Kansas City or Atlanta to make it 34 too.

And houston balked at the price. Look at want happens when you over expand and teams have to relocate.

portland isn't going to pay that high price. there is no interest in KC and why in the world would the NHL want to return into Atlanta after it failed twice in which the next time it was cause the team was kicked out.

I do not see the NHL expanding beyond 32 teams. There is no interest when the price is going to be way more than 650m. Houston will get a team probably via relocation.

Note boston owner never said how they'll go into houston and again the current price is way way too high.

 

[Melrose Munch]

And houston balked at the price. Look at want happens when you over expand and teams have to relocate.

portland isn't going to pay that high price. there is no interest in KC and why in the world would the NHL want to return into Atlanta after it failed twice in which the next time it was cause the team was kicked out.

I do not see the NHL expanding beyond 32 teams. There is no interest when the price is going to be way more than 650m. Houston will get a team probably via relocation.

Note boston owner never said how they'll go into houston and again the current price is way way too high.

They're obviously talking with Houston now, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about them.

 

[gstommylee]

They're obviously talking with Houston now, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about them.

Again NHL is not going beyond 32 teams. What make them think they are actually talking about expansion, they could be talking about the coyotes as far as we know.

The coyotes situation needs to be resolved. The financial mess with the coyotes is not sustainable.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Again NHL is not going beyond 32 teams. What make them think they are actually talking about expansion, they could be talking about the coyotes as far as we know.

The coyotes situation needs to be resolved. The financial mess with the coyotes is not sustainable.

You have no proof they're not going between 32 teams. They're missing too many markets to really stop expansion at this point. The coyotes are not moving. No one is paying 650m for all that.

 

[gstommylee]

You have no proof they're not going between 32 teams. They're missing too many markets to really stop expansion at this point. The coyotes are not moving. No one is paying 650m for all that.

But there's the problem the team can't remain there with how things are going now. The coyotes issue must have a long term resolution.

If you over expand you'll run into a problem where a team has to relocate where there is no market available leaving them to tell the union we have to get rid of teams and the union won't be happy.

 

[Melrose Munch]

But there's the problem the team can't remain there with how things are going now. The coyotes issue must have a long term resolution.

If you over expand you'll run into a problem where a team has to relocate where there is no market available leaving them to tell the union we have to get rid of teams and the union won't be happy.

Well the NHL is stuck then, because Seattle is team 32 and Houston will be team 33. They did this to themselves.

 

[gstommylee]

Well the NHL is stuck then, because Seattle is team 32 and Houston will be team 33. They did this to themselves.

Houston won't be 33 cause Houston isn't going to pay 650m for team.

 

[nhlfan79]

why in the world would the NHL want to return into Atlanta after it failed twice in which the next time it was cause the team was kicked out..

For the exact reason you gave. The league concluded that ridding itself of the cancerous Atlanta Spirit Group was worth the consequence of losing the Atlanta market. All things being equal, the league undoubtedly wants to be in Atlanta, as there's a gigantic geographic hole in their national footprint without it.

The big hurdles to Atlanta 3.0, of course, are (1) finding an owner willing to give this market its first ever legitimate chance to succeed, and (2) the league's need to own up to the fact that it broke its farcical covenant to fight for the fans in every market. There are more than enough hockey fans here for this market to thrive, but most are deeply disillusioned with how the relocation played out. During the final years, most sat on their wallets because ASG's end game of eviction was obvious, despite their constant lies to the contrary. Yet the league did nothing at all because of its preoccupation of saving face in Glendale.

 

[Melrose Munch]

For the exact reason you gave. The league concluded that ridding itself of the cancerous Atlanta Spirit Group was worth the consequence of losing the Atlanta market. All things being equal, the league undoubtedly wants to be in Atlanta, as there's a gigantic geographic hole in their national footprint without it.

The big hurdles to Atlanta 3.0, of course, are (1) finding an owner willing to give this market its first ever legitimate chance to succeed, and (2) the league's need to own up to the fact that it broke its farcical covenant to fight for the fans in every market. There are more than enough hockey fans here for this market to thrive, but most are deeply disillusioned with how the relocation played out. During the final years, most sat on their wallets because ASG's end game of eviction was obvious. Yet the league did nothing at all because of its preoccupation of saving face in Glendale.

Just talk to Tony Ressler.

Houston won't be 33 cause Houston isn't going to pay 650m for team.

It's called negotiation man. Jacobs said Houston is next. That's 33. not 32

 

[gstommylee]

Just talk to Tony Ressler.
It's called negotiation man. Jacobs said Houston is next. That's 33. not 32

and they can address Houston with out expanding. The concept is two birds one stone, they address the coyotes franchise while getting houston a team.

33 is a stupid number.

 

[Melrose Munch]

and they can address Houston with out expanding. The concept is two birds one stone, they address the coyotes franchise while getting houston a team.

33 is a stupid number.

They don't want to move the coyotes. Let it go.

 

[gstommylee]

They don't want to move the coyotes. Let it go.

And they weren't going to move the coyotes cause they had a spot for another team that didn't involve relocation.

 

[Melrose Munch]

And they weren't going to move the coyotes cause they had a spot for another team that didn't involve relocation.

Okay last post because we are way off topic. The coyotes are still looking for a place in Phoenix. The coyotes have given no indication their moving, and Jacobs just implied Houston will be expansion. I don't see where the league can be kept to 32 teams at all. But I digress, we're off topic.