Post-Game Talk: Buffalo. What else is new?

[FlareKnight]

I am not the biggest person to be all "eat the crow" but I can not wait until Z comes back next year and shows everyone up. it drives me insane how some players on this team can have yucky years and it's "it's okay, he'll be fine." but when it's players y'all don't like it's all, it's a mistake, he's horrible, we're stuck with him.

the guy had a crap year from start to finish, it sucks, but it happens, but geeze marie, some support his way would go so far.

Support his way would do what? Make him play better? He's clearly getting that from the coach beign that he's still in the lineup instead of being scratched and replaced by Carrick. Something that is probably warranted with his current play.

You can say eat crow. But are you going to eat it if he's not any better next year? No. You'll just say "wait till next year, it's a long contract." Repeating that year after year, until he hopefully plays better. It's a bad year for a guy who just signed a long contract. That's worrisome. That's not good. In fact I'd call that bad.

Zaitsev could play better next year. We should sure hope he does. Some guys get more slack because they've shown more. Even in his good year Zaitsev was solid, but not mindblowingly good. The pro side to that contract was 'next year he'll be comfortable, secure in his deal, and better' and he's actually worse. We still don't know what the high point for Zaitsev is. So of course he's not going to get the same slack as someone else having a down year.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Support his way would do what? Make him play better? He's clearly getting that from the coach beign that he's still in the lineup instead of being scratched and replaced by Carrick. Something that is probably warranted with his current play.

You can say eat crow. But are you going to eat it if he's not any better next year? No. You'll just say "wait till next year, it's a long contract." Repeating that year after year, until he hopefully plays better. It's a bad year for a guy who just signed a long contract. That's worrisome. That's not good. In fact I'd call that bad.

Zaitsev could play better next year. We should sure hope he does. Some guys get more slack because they've shown more. Even in his good year Zaitsev was solid, but not mindblowingly good. The pro side to that contract was 'next year he'll be comfortable, secure in his deal, and better' and he's actually worse. We still don't know what the high point for Zaitsev is. So of course he's not going to get the same slack as someone else having a down year.

actually no. I've been pretty consistent when I've said we should be patient on players and then they just continue to suck, and then i'll give them their two lumps verbable, quite frankly, so no, it wouldn't be 'oh wait until next year'. But I would think that someone who is in their second year, and has a long list of crap snowpiling on him would elicit some kind of sympathy around here and be patient enough to judge him in his third year to see what he is, because I don't think Z is as bad as he is now.

The guy had a bad year, that happens. crapping on him and saying he was a mistake to be signed because he's having a bad year, in my opinion rather foolish. He never had the opportunity to really get his stride together, he was struggling, then he broke his foot, then he got back, and then he got the flu. So any real actual turn around he potentially could have lost was derailed from those things.

my main point stands - when it is regarding a player people like or we're supposed to love people have all the patience in the world, bending over backwards to excuse their own play - hell, you're not even allowed to bring up their bad play because you're seen as a hater or something stupid like that. Someone has a bad year and everything is just horrible and dire.

 

[Sypher04]

Very disappointing mediocre effort from Matthews tonight. Weak shots on the logo, little effort on the forecheck or backcheck, not many good passes either. Eichel came to play and won it for the Sabres.

Most of this comment is completely out to lunch.

I'd love to know what game you watched. Matthews was the best player on the ice last night for either team. The best player doesn't always win on the scoreboard.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Most of this comment is completely out to lunch.

I'd love to know what game you watched. Matthews was the best player on the ice last night for either team. The best player doesn't always win on the scoreboard.

well... no.
Matthews had his moments, but I'd argue Eichel was better. which is fine because Matthews is allowed on off night in only his third game back but I don't think he was the best.

 

[member 262271]

If 30 coaches are wrong, they are all wrong. I think sports science will tell you there is a correlation between fatigue and losing.

What’s strange is that the Leafs clearly don’t like to over-use their skaters, and have pretty balanced icetime as a result, yet Andersen gets start after start.

Imo they run the risk of really grinding him down if they keep this up over the next few seasons.

This is something i've thought about, if the Leafs say have the best in sports science then how do they not take this into account? I'm not terribly bent out of shape about it, but I do find it a little curious.

 

[Gallagbi]

This is something i've thought about, if the Leafs say have the best in sports science then how do they not take this into account? I'm not terribly bent out of shape about it, but I do find it a little curious.

Maybe the sports scientists have found GP doesn't impact goalies. A players workload is much different.

 

[Sypher04]

well... no.
Matthews had his moments, but I'd argue Eichel was better. which is fine because Matthews is allowed on off night in only his third game back but I don't think he was the best.

Respectfully, I disagree. Eichel's game had a few flashy moments, but overall not seeing how it was better (on par maybe). Matthews wasn't even off last night. He was credited with 4 shots on goal, and 1 assist. Had some other chances that just missed by a bit. And I think 2 that went off posts. His line dominated the Sabres for lengthy stretches of the game. He made some very good passing plays, and stripped a number of Sabres of the puck on the backcheck.

The broadcast kept playing up the Matthews' "turnover"' that led to Eichel's first goal, but if you look at it, it's very clear Eichel's skate trips Matthews on the play. Matthews is money along the walls, so good chance without the trip he doesn't turn the puck over to Girgensens, but for arguments sake let's say he doesn't win that battle, he still doesn't have to pick himself up off the ice. He's most likely stuck to Eichel's hip and that point it's at best a 50/50 chance whether Eichel ever gets that pass from Girgensens behind the net to walk in on Andersen. And even IF he does, Matthews is on him contesting the play at least. That trip is the entire reason for that goal.

And the second Eichel goal was one Andersen really should've had. Leafs weren't getting any freebies tonight, Johnson was terrific.

Eichel won the production battle (in 4 extra mins of TOI I might add), but Matthews was all over the game, and one shot moves an inch and we're talking about him also having 2 points in the game as well.

 

[Albert Iafrate]

actually no. I've been pretty consistent when I've said we should be patient on players and then they just continue to suck, and then i'll give them their two lumps verbable, quite frankly, so no, it wouldn't be 'oh wait until next year'. But I would think that someone who is in their second year, and has a long list of crap snowpiling on him would elicit some kind of sympathy around here and be patient enough to judge him in his third year to see what he is, because I don't think Z is as bad as he is now.

The guy had a bad year, that happens. crapping on him and saying he was a mistake to be signed because he's having a bad year, in my opinion rather foolish. He never had the opportunity to really get his stride together, he was struggling, then he broke his foot, then he got back, and then he got the flu. So any real actual turn around he potentially could have lost was derailed from those things.

my main point stands - when it is regarding a player people like or we're supposed to love people have all the patience in the world, bending over backwards to excuse their own play - hell, you're not even allowed to bring up their bad play because you're seen as a hater or something stupid like that. Someone has a bad year and everything is just horrible and dire.

With all due respect, I see your point, but you have to admit it's not just this season. He was terrible after getting injured at the end of last season and in the playoffs. Just not the same guy. This happens a lot of players after a first injury, especially with an average size guy like him. There is a fear of re-injury that can make certain players play with less confidence. I think he was pretty fearless when he came into the league, and one tough play knocked him down a few notches. I definitely would love for you to be right, but I just feel like the Zaitsev we saw last season before his injury is not coming back. I'd gladly eat crow on this one, because it would mean that we would get a second pairing d-man returning to form, but the sample size is getting bigger and bigger.

 

[Suntouchable13]

This is something i've thought about, if the Leafs say have the best in sports science then how do they not take this into account? I'm not terribly bent out of shape about it, but I do find it a little curious.

Maybe they think that goalies can handle this many starts no problem? I kinda agree with them, tbh.

 

[X66]

You play that game over 10 times and the Leafs win 8 of them, why are people so upset?

I'm more upset for selfish reasons because I think Matthews could have had 5 points tonight.

Every game you go without an injury from this point on is a good thing. We know where we are finishing.

Another thing, after seeing Hyman on the right wing after the Matthews injury it showed that he's much better there, he doesn't have the skill to play on his off wing IMHO.

I'd replace him with Johnson if I could to see how it would work.

 

[ITM]

Getting the team to play and ready for the playoffs is fine.

Overplaying your goalie against bottom feeders is not preparing anything. It doesn’t matter if every team does that. In terms of goaltending, fatigue leads to losses.

I guess in the abstract that's true, but you're claiming that Babcock is incompetent for doing to Andersen, what Tampa, Winnipeg, LA and Columbus* have also done with their goalies. Are all of these coaches also over-working their goalies? Or is it more reasonable to say that what Babcock is doing with Andersen is what's typically done with playoffs bound teams who have a bonafide number one goalie?

It's interesting because one of the many other criticisms I've read of Babcock on these boards is his thrift when it comes to doling out ice-time.


(Thanks for the stats visual HamiltonNHL)*

 

[ACC1224]

This is something i've thought about, if the Leafs say have the best in sports science then how do they not take this into account? I'm not terribly bent out of shape about it, but I do find it a little curious.

Perhaps the "best in sports science" are fine with it. Why is it assumed that they would ignore this advice?

 

[saffronleaf]

Most of this comment is completely out to lunch.

I'd love to know what game you watched. Matthews was the best player on the ice last night for either team. The best player doesn't always win on the scoreboard.

He struggled on the forecheck and backcheck, the puck was easily taken from him, all of his shots were targeted at the goaltender's crest... it was a Hymanesque performance.

 

[Sypher04]

He struggled on the forecheck and backcheck, the puck was easily taken from him, all of his shots were targeted at the goaltender's crest... it was a Hymanesque performance.

This is pretty much completely wrong. Nice work.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Matthews could have had about 5 goals last night. Just weren’t going in

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

He struggled on the forecheck and backcheck, the puck was easily taken from him, all of his shots were targeted at the goaltender's crest... it was a Hymanesque performance.

Matthews deserves the benefit of the doubt. If he's getting chances and not finishing it's probably just an unlucky night. The guy knows how to score and didn't just forget. His timing and stuff is probably just off because of the injury

 

[MattySnipes]

Matthews deserves the benefit of the doubt. If he's getting chances and not finishing it's probably just an unlucky night. The guy knows how to score and didn't just forget. His timing and stuff is probably just off because of the injury

Exactly. Babcock said himself after Matty's first game from injury that the first game is the easiest one to get up for because you're on adrenaline. He said it's the second and third games which are tough (Detroit, Buffalo). He'll snap out of it, nothing to be worried about. Just like you said - he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Daisy Jane]

With all due respect, I see your point, but you have to admit it's not just this season. He was terrible after getting injured at the end of last season and in the playoffs. Just not the same guy. This happens a lot of players after a first injury, especially with an average size guy like him. There is a fear of re-injury that can make certain players play with less confidence. I think he was pretty fearless when he came into the league, and one tough play knocked him down a few notches. I definitely would love for you to be right, but I just feel like the Zaitsev we saw last season before his injury is not coming back. I'd gladly eat crow on this one, because it would mean that we would get a second pairing d-man returning to form, but the sample size is getting bigger and bigger.

you mean, when he suffered a concussion?
most people have said (who has had one) it takes them a year (at least) to feel normal (this is including Crosby)

So this is how I see it.
Z has concussion cobwebs in his head (maybe)
He has a new baby which throws things off
He has is a second year NHL player (regardless of his age and previous experience in the KHL, we can all admit the NHL is a way different beast)
He admitted early in the season he didn't feel good because he could tell his play was lacking
the leafs (as a team) went into some sort of malaise (and then he breaks his foot).
the team gets better and hot and sexy - and he's not there.
he gets back and all his woes are compounded because the team is better and he is not AND he's dealing with his foot issue (which, having a fractured ankle - that takes a very long time to recover from too).
He then gets the flu which drags on even when you are better.

I will be consistent and say if you are playing you're 'healthy' and if people want to go he had a bad game (which he had i said it) that's fine, because it's true. But I think - and again, my main point - of just overall crapping on the guy and thinking that he's garbage , or he's a waste or it's horrible we have him for the length of time is over-reacting and just wrong (in my opinion). I don't think so. Now I could be horrendous wrong, but I do think we have the management to make it disappear (ie: he goes back to russia, or something, or dissolve the contract) so it's not even as drama as people make it out to be

we just need to be paitent

 

[ACC1224]

He struggled on the forecheck and backcheck, the puck was easily taken from him, all of his shots were targeted at the goaltender's crest... it was a Hymanesque performance.

He was one of the better players on the ice from my view. Bad play early on the first goal but was pretty good after that.

 

[ULF_55]

Leafs scored 2 goals.

How many games do you win with 2 goals?

I'm not sure a game that the Leafs come up empty offensively is worth over analysis on individuals.

 

[ULF_55]

He was one of the better players on the ice from my view. Bad play early on the first goal but was pretty good after that.

He was fouled on that play, hooked to the ice, Eichel just didn't get called on it.

 

[Kiwi]

I am not the biggest person to be all "eat the crow" but I can not wait until Z comes back next year and shows everyone up. it drives me insane how some players on this team can have yucky years and it's "it's okay, he'll be fine." but when it's players y'all don't like it's all, it's a mistake, he's horrible, we're stuck with him.

the guy had a crap year from start to finish, it sucks, but it happens, but geeze marie, some support his way would go so far.

I'll eat crow if he has 1 decent season, it hasn't happened yet including the season he got his new deal

For a player that skates the way he does his play is completely unacceptable, his puck handling is non-existent and he's unwilling or unable to stop zone entries, two of the most important jobs for any mildly competent defender

Honestly how bad do you have to be not to play well with Gardiner? He makes Polak and Carrick look good for **** sakes

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

well... no.
Matthews had his moments, but I'd argue Eichel was better. which is fine because Matthews is allowed on off night in only his third game back but I don't think he was the best.

Eh not really. If Eichel gets called for tripping Matthews on the first goal and Andersen doesn't do his best sieve impression on his second, he's held off the scoresheet. Matthews generated a lot more and was better defensively

 

[Coachcorner]

A little bit of urgency on that thang and especially when shooting the puck, we'll have to want that thang more and it'll go in and rip it real hard. Y'all know what I'm saying all those nets are waiting on us. We got the players. We was doing pretty darn good yesterday again. We doin that thang real hard and winningn in the playoffs too. We got them players like komarov too coming back and komaroing it up real bigg y'all heard me.

 

[Menzinger]

This is something i've thought about, if the Leafs say have the best in sports science then how do they not take this into account? I'm not terribly bent out of shape about it, but I do find it a little curious.

I suspect it’s a Babcock move. Guy wants to win every gamenand Andersen is his best goalie. And this is fine as long as he stays healthy, but I’d like to see McBackup play a bit more at this point in the season - especially against relatively meaningless games like against Buffalo