Confirmed with Link: [BUF/WSH] Halak'd: Halak & 3rd '15 for Neuvirth & Klesla

[FloridaCap]

GAA

It's the exact same team, why is it bad?

Suddenly we're allowing less chances against when Halak is in net?

Bottom line is Halak lets in less goals when he plays, behind the same **** defense.

 

[Brian23]

GAA

To me GAA is just about as useful as +/-.

You could have a .940 save percentage and an absurd GAA if your team is giving up an insane amount of shots.

 

[FloridaCap]

To me GAA is just about as useful as +/-.

You could have a .940 save percentage and an absurd GAA if your team is giving up an insane amount of shots.

Sure, when comparing goalies in two different situations, it's 100% useless.

But both guys are playing behind the same team and the same defense.

 

[Liberati0n*]

Sure, when comparing goalies in two different situations, it's 100% useless.

But both guys are playing behind the same team and the same defense.

Not the same defense. Different players and pairings in many cases. That's beside the point though. Different games are different situations. Save percentage gives you all of the information GAA gives you and more.

 

[FloridaCap]

Not the same defense. Different players and pairings in many cases. That's beside the point though. Different games are different situations. Save percentage gives you all of the information GAA gives you and more.

Alrighty then...

Halak .923
Holtby .911

 

[Liberati0n*]

Alrighty then...

Halak .923
Holtby .911

That's nice. How about since Halak was acquired?

 

[FloridaCap]

That's nice. How about since Halak was acquired?

Halak .923
Holtby .921

So, still better. Next? We going to pull out EV SV% next?

 

[Liberati0n*]

Halak .923
Holtby .921

So, still better. Next? We going to pull out EV SV% next?

Sure. .923 and .921 are almost indistinguishable from each other.

 

[g00n]

Alrighty then...

Halak .923
Holtby .911

So one more save every 3 games, roughly. Even less difference when you look at season long stats. And horrible in the shootout when we needed points. Just 4 wins in 11 starts as a Cap.

Sorry, not a gamechanging upgrade even with the small sample size.

It's not goaltending that's to blame.

 

[FloridaCap]

So one more save every 3 games, roughly. Even less difference when you look at season long stats. And horrible in the shootout when we needed points. Just 4 wins in 11 starts as a Cap.

Sorry, not a gamechanging upgrade even with the small sample size.

It's not goaltending that's to blame.

I never said it was gamechanging. But to only compare use Holtby's (limited) games since the trade instead of his full season's work is stupid anyway, when we have a much bigger sample size to work with.

Yes, he has been horrid in the shootout. What are our shooters shooting in those same shootouts? Same thing with Grubuaer earlier in the season. Nobody is scoring for either of them in the SO. A couple of empty shootouts vs Ryan Miller and our fragile team suddenly can't score in them anymore... it's hilarious.

 

[g00n]

Halak .923
Holtby .921

So, still better. Next? We going to pull out EV SV% next?

Better? That's a difference of 1 save every 500 shots, or every 15 games based on Caps shots against average. That means just about nothing.

 

[FloridaCap]

Better? That's a difference of 1 save every 500 shots, or every 15 games based on Caps shots against average. That means just about nothing.

So now save percentage doesn't matter either for you guys, I see. .911 and .923 isn't a big difference, .921 and .923 is no difference at all., etc. etc. 911 and 923 is a HUGE difference. It's the difference between your run-of-the-mill backup and your top-10 or top-12 goalie.

Apparently sv% only matters when one guy puts up a sub .900 and the other is .940.

What other goalie stats do you guys use?

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

Halak's GAA with us this season is 2.53 while Holtby's is 2.99. With the same defense, no less. Simple stat, but whatever...one lets in less goals than the other.


He does blow in the shootout, though. Not sure that matters anyhow, because our shooters can't put it in the net regardless.

Not the same defense - Halak has never had the atrocity that is Erskine-Carrick line up in front of him. The damage those two did cannot be understated.

Really though, you're using a sample size of 11 games for Halak. GAA is already a finicky stat (Holtby's bad six game stretch alone added .27 to his GAA), so using a sample that small is totally meaningless. If Halak went out tomorrow and gave up 5 goals, his GAA would jump to 2.74. Holtby pitches a shutout on Thursday, his drops to 2.92. Repeat performances from both and Halak ends up at 2.92 while Holtby's down to 2.85. That's why people laugh at GAA.

 

[Liberati0n*]

That's why people laugh at GAA.

Not really....

 

[FloridaCap]

Not the same defense - Halak has never had the atrocity that is Erskine-Carrick line up in front of him. The damage those two did cannot be understated.

Really though, you're using a sample size of 11 games for Halak. GAA is already a finicky stat (Holtby's bad six game stretch alone added .27 to his GAA), so using a sample that small is totally meaningless. If Halak went out tomorrow and gave up 5 goals, his GAA would jump to 2.74. Holtby pitches a shutout on Thursday, his drops to 2.92. Repeat performances from both and Halak ends up at 2.92 while Holtby's down to 2.85. That's why people laugh at GAA.

Our entire defense is an atrocity. Holtby had Erskine-Carrick, Halak has Brouillette and the Call Up Flavor of the Day, Sponsored by Hershey.

Save percentage is also finicky when using such small sample sizes. I accidentally didn't count Holtby's 2 GA performance vs the Bruins when doing the "since the trade" stats, and his sv% went from .910 to .921 when I counted it.

All I'm trying to say is SO FAR, in the SMALL SAMPLE SIZE he's shown, Halak has given us a chance to win MORE OFTEN than Holtby. Halak is not a perfect goalie, and he has been rather average (or worse) lately. Holtby has also gotten a little better recently.

Regardless, we can all agree that goalie isn't the major issue holding us back from the playoffs. It can be argued that it is or isn't A issue, but major issue it is not. That's our defense featuring 50% Bears players and our inept coach.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

So now save percentage doesn't matter either for you guys, I see. .911 and .923 isn't a big difference, .921 and .923 is no difference at all., etc. etc. 911 and 923 is a HUGE difference. It's the difference between your run-of-the-mill backup and your top-10 or top-12 goalie.

Apparently sv% only matters when one guy puts up a sub .900 and the other is .940.

What other goalie stats do you guys use?

ES sv% is the most repeatable. Holtby's is 92.68 (horrible six game stretch included), Halak's is 92.06.

Not really....

Well, I'm a people, albeit a weird stats people. But I guess it's the different teams thing that does it for most people.

 

[FloridaCap]

ES sv% is the most repeatable. Holtby's is 92.68 (horrible six game stretch included), Halak's is 92.06.



Well, I'm a people. But I guess it's the different teams thing that does it for most people.

ES sv% is at .924 for both of them this season, according to NHL.com.

and for the hell of it, Grubauer's is actually the highest at .927.

 

[g00n]

So now save percentage doesn't matter either for you guys, I see. .911 and .923 isn't a big difference, .921 and .923 is no difference at all...

Apparently sv% only matters when one guy puts up a sub .900 and the other is .940.

What other goalie stats do you guys use?

Based on the numbers, it doesn't matter much except for the extremes. If you can play within a range you give your team a chance to win based on league-wide or team scoring and shot total trends.

The really high and really low save percentages, depending on context, can show you some things but they don't automatically make one guy better or worse. A goalie can face a ton of easy shots one night or on one team that plays good defense, while another can fight screens and breakaways all night long.

In the short term there will probably be differences in stats, but over the course of an entire career it should balance out.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

Our entire defense is an atrocity. Holtby had Erskine-Carrick, Halak has Brouillette and the Call Up Flavor of the Day, Sponsored by Hershey.

Save percentage is also finicky when using such small sample sizes. I accidentally didn't count Holtby's 2 GA performance vs the Bruins when doing the "since the trade" stats, and his sv% went from .910 to .921 when I counted it.

All I'm trying to say is SO FAR, in the SMALL SAMPLE SIZE he's shown, Halak has given us a chance to win MORE OFTEN than Holtby. Halak is not a perfect goalie, and he has been rather average (or worse) lately. Holtby has also gotten a little better recently.

Regardless, we can all agree that goalie isn't the major issue holding us back from the playoffs. It can be argued that it is or isn't A issue, but major issue it is not. That's our defense featuring 50% Bears players and our inept coach.

First part was an (attempted) joke, I tried to get that across with "Really though," but I guess I should've used a sarcasm smily.

ES sv% is at .924 for both of them this season, according to NHL.com.

and for the hell of it, Grubauer's is actually the highest at .927.

I was going by HA, so I guess I should've said 5 on 5 instead.

 

[FloridaCap]

Based on the numbers, it doesn't matter much except for the extremes. If you can play within a range you give your team a chance to win based on league-wide or team scoring and shot total trends.

The really high and really low save percentages, depending on context, can show you some things but they don't automatically make one guy better or worse. A goalie can face a ton of easy shots one night or on one team that plays good defense, while another can fight screens and breakaways all night long.

In the short term there will probably be differences in stats, but over the course of an entire career it should balance out.

Which automatically puts me on Halak's side because he has shown throughout his career to be a dependable starter. Holtby has shown glimpses of brilliance to go with glimpses of hot garbage, and doesn't have the large sample size of .915+ to make me feel better about him.

I'm certainly more relaxed when Halak is in net, as I don't have to wince on every slightly screened shot from the blue line or every bank shot from below the goal line.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

Which automatically puts me on Halak's side because he has shown throughout his career to be a dependable starter. Holtby has shown glimpses of brilliance to go with glimpses of hot garbage, and doesn't have the large sample size of .915+ to make me feel better about him.

I'm certainly more relaxed when Halak is in net, as I don't have to wince on every slightly screened shot from the blue line or every bank shot from below the goal line.

Did you ever read any of the threads where Blues fans were desperately trying to get rid of Halak? Their criticisms of Halak were the same ones you have of Holtby. Hell, Armstrong was so convinced of that that he traded for Miller. There's a reason two organizations have passed on Halak.

 

[SimplySensational]

Well if we're talking about two goalies on the same team with different GAA's its extremely relevant. It shows Holtbys puck handling skills aren't actually helping the team.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

ES sv% is at .924 for both of them this season, according to NHL.com.

and for the hell of it, Grubauer's is actually the highest at .927.

You're dealing with the exact crap I didn't want to...because I knew about 3-5 Would rush to the defense of Holtby. I knew they would cherry pick stats and try to diminish anything positive from Halak. I mean how many times have we seen (over the past months) Holtby supporters trying to discount his "small stretch of bad play", and look at his stats in two views, the larger one surely in his favor. You said "they both play in front of the same team" and someone rushes to split hairs and say that because Erskine-Carrick hasn't played for Halak that it somehow matters a whole lot.

I'm with you, bottom line Halak has simply let in less goals per game than Holtby, and also I have a hard time faulting a goalie for losing many shootouts when his team doesn't score much at all in the shootout. What's he supposed to do win a 17 round 1-0 shootout every night?

Anyway, yes the upgrade has been marginal, but it's not unnoticed and certainly was needed at the time of the trade.

 

[g00n]

Facts, why bother? Feelings are much more reliable.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

You're dealing with the exact crap I didn't want to...because I knew about 3-5 Would rush to the defense of Holtby. I knew they would cherry pick stats and try to diminish anything positive from Halak. I mean how many times have we seen (over the past months) Holtby supporters trying to discount his "small stretch of bad play", and look at his stats in two views, the larger one surely in his favor. You said "they both play in front of the same team" and someone rushes to split hairs and say that because Erskine-Carrick hasn't played for Halak that it somehow matters a whole lot.

I'm with you, bottom line Halak has simply let in less goals per game than Holtby, and also I have a hard time faulting a goalie for losing many shootouts when his team doesn't score much at all in the shootout. What's he supposed to do win a 17 round 1-0 shootout every night?

Anyway, yes the upgrade has been marginal, but it's not unnoticed and certainly was needed at the time of the trade.

That was a joke...

Also, Caps shooters have gone 3-11 in the SO with Halak. The average is usually in the 30s, so that's a little below average. Not nearly as bad as Halak giving up 6 goals on 11 shots though. Halak definitely gets most of the blame there.

Anyway, there's clearly no convincing you three so I'll give up the ghost until next season. I think you're all just jealous of his hair though (that was also a joke, and is not the actual opinion of this poster).