Bryan Burke: 'I would not draft Kessel first overall'

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Mr. Hab

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King Henry I said:
Brian Burke: Drafted Bobby Ryan ahead of Jack Johnson, Gilbert Brule and other far superior prospects.

Brian Burke: Traded Sergei Federov for Tyler Wright and Francis Beauchemin

Brian Burke: Would rather have Toews or Johnson than Kessel

Does anybody else see a pattern here? Right, and Mike Milbury's the stupid one :sarcasm:


Bobby Ryan might/should end up being a great (#1 line) power forward one day...he got and still continues to get rave reviews from lots of hockey scouts. Wait another 2-3 years for Ryan...

Mike Milbury: I don't want to bash you :) , but I consider Mike Milbury as one of the worst GM's ever (well, at least in the trading department! no? :dunno: ). He traded/lost so many good players: Luongo :amazed: , Bertuzzi, Redden, McCabe...and got almost nothing in return. Just imagine if he had kept all (or most) of those players!! :amazed: :jump:
 

Old Hickory

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The Ducks standings have nothing to do with this thread. I'm not sure anyone mentioned how Brian Burke built a good team in Anaheim, untill you for whatever reason posted the standings.

Burke results are an indication of his ability.

Also, how did Burkie make the Ducks a worse team? He's brought in our leading scorer and our best player.
Because he traded everyone else.

He's done an amazing job in Anaheim
That's your opinion, but the results to date speak otherwise

. Every trade he's made has been very good for Anaheim, and I'd hope if he could, he'd do every one in an instant.
That's your opinion, but the results to date speak otherwise

The fact that Anaheim had no scorers on the team prior to his arrival isn't his fault(Fedorov was one, but this season, he's been everything but).
Rucchin, LeClerc, He could have spent less on the Neidermayers. He chose to being in enforcers, not goal scorers.
 
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Le Golie

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TransportedUpstater said:
Thanks, much appreciated.

Do you think if Brandon made that pick, that Toews would have joined the CHL?

Very good chance in my opinion. I say that because teams don't draft first and ask questions later (at least not with the top pick), I have no doubt in my mind that Tri-Cities talked to Toews before the draft about his intentions and at that time I'm sure he was seriously considering the CHL. Circumstances changed after he was drafted by a west coast team and the NCAA option probably got a lot more appealing.

That really sucks for Tri-Cities, but I'm sure Toews' intentions were good and he wasn't intentionally misleading them in any way.
 

Old Hickory

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RallyKiller said:
All the scoring? what did Burke trade away again? Steve Rucchin and Mike Leclerc!
Considering what they have left, it was a mistake.

and since when are you "crappy" when you are one point out of a playoff slot?

TransportedUpstater called them crappy and I replied with the same word. Here is a link
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=4297594#post4297594

I guess that would have made the kings crappy for about the last 10 years.
97-98 the Kings made the playoffs as the 5th seed
99-00 they were the 5th seed
00-01 they were the 7th seed
01-02 they were the 7th seed.
 

Transported Upstater

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Le Golie said:
Very good chance in my opinion. I say that because teams don't draft first and ask questions later, I have no doubt in my mind that Tri-Cities talked to Toews before the draft about his intentions and at that time I'm sure he was seriously considering the CHL. Circumstances changed after he was drafted by a west coast team and the NCAA option probably got a lot more appealing.

That really sucks for Tri-Cities, but I'm sure Toews' intentions were good and he wasn't intentionally misleading them in any way.


Good point. I'm sure Tri-Cities wouldn't waste a #1 without at least a chance of return on that investment.

Yeah, I think because the WHL does its draft a year earlier than the other two leagues, each pick may be a bit riskier unless the player has no intention of choosing the NCAA.
 

Misos Milakos*

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TransportedUpstater said:
I don't think anyone is disputing that Toews is more well-rounded than Kessel.

Well, thats all I originally said when I supported Burke's opinion completely on why he said Kessel may not be a lock for # 1 and a guy like Toews will certainly be given his consideration. Only to be delivered some stuff about Mike Peca. I like Toews game and see him as a potential complete package player, which I happen to value more than players like Kessel, this is something Kessel supporters seem to have a hard time handling.

People talk about Toews and his offense, who is to say what his offensive potential is at this point. I mean, it's rare players at Toews age even make Canada. Nathan Horton didn't even make Canada at the same age as Toews. Eric Staal didn't make Canada while being a year older than Toews. Rick Nash played at the same age as Toews I'm pretty sure, and didn't exactly light the tournament on fire offensively putting up 3 pts in 7 games, Spezza a year older than Toews put up 4 pts in 7 games, so I really wouldn't read too much into what Toews has done at this stage in this tournament when looking to assess his offensive potential. Toews still has another two years of eligibility left to light up this tournament offensively.
 
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Transported Upstater

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Misos Milakos said:
Well, thats all I originally said when I supported Burke's opinion completely on why he said Kessel may not be a lock for # 1 and a guy like Toews will certainly be given his consideration. Only to be delivered some stuff about Mike Peca. I like Toews game and see him as a potential complete package player, which I happen to value more than players like Kessel, this is something Kessel supporters seem to have a hard time handling.

People talk about Toews and his offense, who is to say what his offensive potential is at this point. I mean, it's rare players at Toews age even make Canada. Nathan Horton didn't even make Canada at the same age as Toews. Eric Staal didn't make Canada while being a year older than Toews, so I really wouldn't read too much into what Toews has done at this stage when looking to assess his offensive potential. Toews still has another two years of eligibility left to light up this tournament offensively.
OK, I understand better now. If you like the way Toews plays more than Kessel, I won't dispute that, because honestly, I may as well.
 

Jerky Leclerc

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kingsjohn said:
Isn't his record this year an indication of his ability? I'd say so.
He overpaid both Neidermayers and spent too much on 2 players and his team is paying the price.

What don't you understand about answering my questions?

What are you talking about? Is Anaheim a better team minus the Nied brothers? Maybe Burke should had spent that money on Gonchar and Zhamnov.

Getting back on topic, this is only Burke's opinion. He doesn't think Kessel is a better pro player because he doesn't use his teamates. Well it doesn't hurt Kovalchuk so who cares.
 

Randall Graves*

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Misos Milakos said:
If Frolik and Mueller were as complete as Toews at this point in time, they to would be making a greater run at overtaking Kessel. Maybe they should be.

Kessel is dangerous with time and space, and hopefully he develops some more moves for his sake because as great a talent as he is, the better the defence he faces with what he has shown with his limited bag of tricks, the more difficult time he will have doing what he does best, which is scoring, and if he's not scoring, lets face it, he's not doing much. Think what you will, Toews will be the player who does it all.
Does anyone believe Kessell will be a superstar ala Kovalchuk, Crosby or a second tier star like Hossa or Spezza(not comparing him to those players)
 

Old Hickory

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Jerky Leclerc said:
What are you talking about? Is Anaheim a better team minus the Nied brothers?
They are both good players . It doesn't change the fact he overpayed from them and could have signed another forward or two.

Maybe Burke should had spent that money on Gonchar and Zhamnov...
They are both overpaid too
 

hockeyfan125

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again, the Fedorov trade is looking pretty good for ANA. Clears a ton of cap room, and they got some depth guys back. Fedorov is doing very little in Columbus, and it gives the Ducks some breathing room and money to play with.
 

Randall Graves*

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kingsjohn said:
Considering what they have left, it was a mistake.
Leclerc was traded to make room for Selanne, is that a mistake?
Steve Rucchin is a third line center, we have three of those.


TransportedUpstater called them crappy and I replied with the same word. Here is a link
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=4297594#post4297594


97-98 the Kings made the playoffs as the 5th seed
99-00 they were the 5th seed
00-01 they were the 7th seed
01-02 they were the 7th seed.
so pretty much teetering on making, and not making the playoffs all except for two years.
 

Randall Graves*

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kingsjohn said:
They are both good players . It doesn't change the fact he overpayed from them and could have signed another forward or two.


They are both overpaid too
What is fair market value for one of the top five defensemen in the game, in your opinion?
 

Old Hickory

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RallyKiller said:
What is fair market value for one of the top five defensemen in the game, in your opinion?
5.5 Million.

But with the Ducks cap situation, if you can't afford a Mercedes you don't buy one. Burke put all his eggs in one basket and the Ducks are paying the price
 

Vic Rattlehead*

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kingsjohn said:
5.5 Million.

But with the Ducks cap situation, if you can't afford a Mercedes you don't buy one. Burke put all his eggs in one basket and the Ducks are paying the price

How? They are one point out of eighth place with a game in hand on the ninth and eighth placed teams.
 

Old Hickory

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RallyKiller said:
Leclerc was traded to make room for Selanne, is that a mistake?
Wouldn't having both make more sense?


RallyKiller said:
Steve Rucchin is a third line center, we have three of those.
Rucchin was a first or second line center for the Ducks, now that he is a Ranger he is a "third liner"?


so pretty much teetering on making, and not making the playoffs all except for two years.
Setting the injury record and almost setting it the year before that will take a toll on your team. Also subtract a year for the lockout.
 

Randall Graves*

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kingsjohn said:
Wouldn't having both make more sense?

Why would it make more sense? Mike Leclerc is a china doll and at the time it was either Selanne or Leclerc, and clearly the right decision was made.



Rucchin was a first or second line center for the Ducks, now that he is a Ranger he is a "third liner"?
rucchins production speaks for itself, most anaheim fans will tell you at best he was a second liner but in 2003/2004 he was a third liner, and that remains the same. Marchant is outproducing him for the same price, with as good or better pk/defense skills and is a much better skater



Setting the injury record and almost setting it the year before that will take a toll on your team. Also subtract a year for the lockout.

So what, fact still remains aside from a couple years they've bordered on 'crappy' since the ducks are crappy who are teetering in the playoff race.

now can we please stay on topic?
 

PuckFan01

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Jon Prescription said:
Man, Kessel has become resident whipping boy for not scoring as much this year while Toews has become one of the most overrated prospects I've seen.

It is a bit tough to understand why so many people are against the kid. You'd think he was a criminal with the way some people seem so willing to cut him down. :confused:
 

Old Hickory

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19bruins19 said:
How? They are one point out of eigth place with a game in hand on the ninth and eigth placed teams.
Do you seriously expect them to leapfrog Colorado, Vancouver or Edmonton?
 
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kingsjohn said:
Do you seriously expect them to leapfrog Colorado, Vancouver or Edmonton?

If they beat Dallas on Friday, they will leapfrog Colorado. That will put them in 8th place. Also, if Auld falters, and Nonis doesn't bring in a true starter, the Canucks could easily fall as well. You act like it's some huge deed for them to do, but really, it's very well in the realm of possibility. Also, it's not like teams like the Kings can't fall either in the second half.
 

Old Hickory

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RallyKiller said:
rucchins production speaks for itself, most anaheim fans will tell you at best he was a second liner but in 2003/2004 he was a third liner, and that remains the same. Marchant is outproducing him for the same price, with as good or better pk/defense skills and is a much better skater
Minimally outproudicing him for slightly more. But that isn't the point. The Ducks need more scorers not swapping two guys that produce roughly the same.
 

Old Hickory

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Bobby Ryan Getzlaf said:
If they beat Dallas on Friday, they will leapfrog Colorado. That will put them in 8th place. Also, if Auld falters, and Nonis doesn't bring in a true starter, the Canucks could easily fall as well. You act like it's some huge deed for them to do, but really, it's very well in the realm of possibility. Also, it's not like teams like the Kings can't fall either in the second half.
Colorado plays twice before Friday
Dallas has beat the Ducks all three times this year

It's within the realm of possibility, but not likely.
 

Randall Graves*

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kingsjohn said:
Minimally outproudicing him for slightly more. But that isn't the point. The Ducks need more scorers not swapping two guys that produce roughly the same.
ok we get it, anaheim sucks. let's stay on topic instead of hijacking this thread further.
 
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kingsjohn said:
5.5 Million.

But with the Ducks cap situation, if you can't afford a Mercedes you don't buy one. Burke put all his eggs in one basket and the Ducks are paying the price

$5.5 million? There are about three defenseman that you could say are better than Niedermayer(he's probably better than two or all three, though): Nik Lidstrom, Chris Pronger and Zdeno Chara. Lidstrom and Pronger make more than that(in Lidstrom's case, much more), and Chara most certainly will be. Other debatable top five defenseman, like the Jovocop and Redden, will likely make around that mark after this season, and neither of which have a Norris trophy on their resume's.

Also, what cap situation? Anaheim has around $5 million in cap room(I think it's more, actually). The cap is also likely to go up after this season. They have no current cap concerns. Earlier cap concerns might've lead them to trade Mike Leclerc and Steve Rucchin, but Rucchin is no better than the guy they've got now(Todd Marchant), and Leclerc wouldn't have helped that much either. Rob Niedermayer has been better than both this year, and Selanne and Scott Nieds have been miles and miles better. I'm sure Burke has no regrets on those FA signings.
 
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