Boston Bruins Bruins Prospects Discussion V - 3 warnings posted - Stay On Subject only!

[Dr Hook]

Sort of off-topic, but can players decline to be drafted- or declare themselves not draftable?

 

[crimsonace]

The only thing that will change the success rate when drafting is raising the draft age. It would reduce some of the projecting (or guessing). And we all know, not all players develop at the same pace (or at all).

This is a great, great point.

Projecting 18-year-olds is a complete crapshoot, and a lot is determined on "measurables" - height, weight, speed, how they project.

Zach Hammill was a top 10 pick.

Torey Krug wasn't drafted by anybody, ever (and the story is, on his first day of training camp in junior, the owner asked coach Jeff Blashill why he was wasting a roster spot on such a tiny defenseman. Blashill told him that undersized defenseman was going to be his best player).

 

[GloryDaze4877]

This is a great, great point.

Projecting 18-year-olds is a complete crapshoot, and a lot is determined on "measurables" - height, weight, speed, how they project.

Zach Hammill was a top 10 pick.

Torey Krug wasn't drafted by anybody, ever (and the story is, on his first day of training camp in junior, the owner asked coach Jeff Blashill why he was wasting a roster spot on such a tiny defenseman. Blashill told him that undersized defenseman was going to be his best player).

NHL completely different from the NFL, where a large percentage of the athletes aren’t drafted until 21 or so after 3/4 years of college, where scouts have a much better handle on what that player is.

Even then, there are still plenty of draft misses in football.

 

[Blowfish]

funny you mentioned Colborne, for me, he was a big reach for a pick, it`s amazing he`s played 300 games in the NHL.

I don`t think ZS was a massive reach, from what I recall, a team picking close behind the B`s were mentioned as one who would be picking him (think it was the Wings?), the B`s liked him

I`ve long been one who has never gone into panic mode if a kid requires more time to develop regardless of the round or place they were picked in a draft

I have heard from a reliable source ZS is being groomed to play 3rd line / penalty kill. Bruins do not see him top 2 lines. The approach in Providence has been defensive first.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I have heard from a reliable source ZS is being groomed to play 3rd line / penalty kill. Bruins do not see him top 2 lines. The approach in Providence has been defensive first.

I highly doubt the Bruins would have taken him at 15 overall if that was the hope for him. Maybe to start off, that’s where they’d like him, because of depth and such, but I don’t believe the Bruins see that as his upside. Not after one season in providence.

 

[Montecristo]

I highly doubt the Bruins would have taken him at 15 overall if that was the hope for him. Maybe to start off, that’s where they’d like him, because of depth and such, but I don’t believe the Bruins see that as his upside. Not after one season in providence.

Marchand was groomed to be a 4th liner/penalty killer and he ended up much better. The bruins might see senyshyn as a 3rd liner right now, but that doesn’t mean he can’t improve and change their outlook

 

[Estlin]

I highly doubt the Bruins would have taken him at 15 overall if that was the hope for him. Maybe to start off, that’s where they’d like him, because of depth and such, but I don’t believe the Bruins see that as his upside. Not after one season in providence.

It will have been a waste of a#15 pick if Boston indeed has always viewed Senyshyn as nothing more than a third-liner and penalty killer. I would agree that the Bruins see his upside as much more than that.

 

[chizzler]

It will have been a waste of a#15 pick if Boston indeed has always viewed Senyshyn as nothing more than a third-liner and penalty killer. I would agree that the Bruins see his upside as much more than that.

It’s a waste if he turns into a top 9 player that can play on the PK? Sign me up if the do that all the time. Most 1st picks don’t make it.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

It’s a waste if he turns into a top 9 player that can play on the PK? Sign me up if the do that all the time. Most 1st picks don’t make it.

But you don’t draft a player in the first round, 15th overall for that. I don’t buy that’s how they view him. I’m sure they see him as more. If that’s all he becomes, it’s good because I take that as well but I think the premise that the organization views his upside as that is mush.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Marchand was groomed to be a 4th liner/penalty killer and he ended up much better. The bruins might see senyshyn as a 3rd liner right now, but that doesn’t mean he can’t improve and change their outlook

Marchand was a 3rd round pick?

 

[Montecristo]

Marchand was a 3rd round pick?

Yes. And Boston saw him as a 4th liner after a couple years. It took a couple more but he eventually started to change their mind. So maybe senyshyn was drafted to be a top 6 player 3 years ago. Now after that time has passed they see him as a 3rd liner. That doesn’t mean they can’t be changed into thinking top 6 again if he gets better

 

[BruinsNetwork]

Yes. And Boston saw him as a 4th liner after a couple years. It took a couple more but he eventually started to change their mind. So maybe senyshyn was drafted to be a top 6 player 3 years ago. Now after that time has passed they see him as a 3rd liner. That doesn’t mean they can’t be changed into thinking top 6 again if he gets better

After exponentially increasing his points and goal-totals in the OHL, the Bruins view him as a lesser player? He had back-to-back 40-goal seasons for SSM in the two-years following the draft— so how would he be viewed as a “3rd liner” now if he’s only gotten better? The Bruins are the ones who put him in the bottom-six with minimal talent around him, it’s by design and not due to lack of talent.

I’m at almost every home game for Providence and I’ve yet to hear a single person say that Senyshyn is being viewed as a 3rd-line PK guy. Not saying the person in this thread didn’t hear that somewhere, but personally, I’ve never heard that.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

After exponentially increasing his points and goal-totals in the OHL, the Bruins view him as a lesser player? He had back-to-back 40-goal seasons for SSM in the two-years following the draft— so how would he be viewed as a “3rd liner” now if he’s only gotten better? The Bruins are the ones who put him in the bottom-six with minimal talent around him, it’s by design and not due to lack of talent.

I’m at almost every home game for Providence and I’ve yet to hear a single person say that Senyshyn is being viewed as a 3rd-line PK guy. Not saying the person in this thread didn’t hear that somewhere, but personally, I’ve never heard that.

I have “heard” very little about Senyshyn, other than the B’s are very happy with his attitude and work ethic.

If I had to guess, I would say that the Bruins know what Senyshyn can do offensively and he’s not going to lose those skills. They are trying to turn him into a 3 zone player. With his speed and size, he could be a heckuva threat on the PK and a very effective on the forecheck. They are just rounding him out as a player.

 

[DKH]

I have heard from a reliable source ZS is being groomed to play 3rd line / penalty kill. Bruins do not see him top 2 lines. The approach in Providence has been defensive first.

these are the folks I would consider reliable- Sweeney, Ferguson, Bradley, Leach, Whitfield, Carbery, Langenbrunner, Pandolfo

I'd say this I can see this to start out but his upside could certainly be higher

if he's at age 20-21 on the team playing third line that is very good, his shot and speed could get him higher

Rafael Devers of the Red Sox is 20 and usually batting near the bottom half of the lineup but check back in 3 years he's probably a middle of the lineup hitter

what's encouraging is the development of Senyshyn where we are talking skilled third liner who can kill penalties which was the last thing I thought of him

my projection is second line RW with 25+ goals based on live scouting

 

[Montecristo]

I have “heard” very little about Senyshyn, other than the B’s are very happy with his attitude and work ethic.

If I had to guess, I would say that the Bruins know what Senyshyn can do offensively and he’s not going to lose those skills. They are trying to turn him into a 3 zone player. With his speed and size, he could be a heckuva threat on the PK and a very effective on the forecheck. They are just rounding him out as a player.

This whole situation reminds me of pat light, former Red Sox prospect. The first couple years he was in the system they essentially had him stop throwing his splitter because it was a great pitch for him and they wanted him to work on his 3rd and 4th pitch to develop since his fastball/splitter combo would be too much of a crutch and he would breeze through the minors and never have a 3rd pitch. Well, that didn’t work. He never got a 3rd pitch, his confidence went in the toilet. His fastball was too straight and his splitter turned out to be not as dominant as they thought it would be (maybe it was lack of use for 2 years).

So senyshyn is fast and has a great shot. Boston knows that. So instead of putting him in positions where he can just use his speed and shot would be enough to breeze through the minors and he wouldn’t develop a defensive game. So they put him with 3rd and 4th liners which will make his shot less useable without someone to get him the puck so he’s forced to develop other parts of his game, since his speed and shot alone while good, isn’t enough on their own to become a great forward. He needs to be more well rounded.

I worry that this method of putting him down the lineup to improve his defense at the expense of his stats and his current strengths could have a negative effect on his confidence which could have an impact on his impact on the offensive side when he finally gets a chance to play in the top 6.

I’ve kind of always been a little up and down on senyshyn. I think his speed could really be a weapon. But until I see him in the nhl I’m not sure how fast he really is. I keep hearing he’s an elite skater and all that but what’s elite? Is he the best skater in the organization? Is he a mcdavid level skater? Or is he just a really good skater a la paccioretty? Because max is a great skater but it’s not like his speed is such a plus it has significant impact on a game the way a seguin or mcdavid speed does. I guess that’s my big question. I know he has a great shot and great speed. But is it a great shot as in Better than what I saw from donato? Is it a laine type shot? Or is it just like a Nathan Horton shot, which was good and certainly nhl level but not a “difference maker.” I mean if he has laines shot and mcdavids speed i think that’s elite. But if he’s just a fast skater with a good shot what makes him different from vatrano?

 

[ON3M4N]

I kind of laugh at the 3rd line comment because I can easily take that as "On the Bruins we see him as a 3rd liner who can play the PK" and that makes sense.

Pasta is 1st or 2nd line RW and then you have guys like Bjork, Heinen & Donato who can play RW. I don't think its a knock on Senyshyn as much as it is how deep Boston is with young guys who can play RW lol. And whose to say Senyshyn on the 3rd line doesn't come in and score 20-30 goals and give you 50-60 points? Heinen put up 47 points playing predominately on the 3rd line this year lol.

I think some people get way to focused on what line people play on vs what they actually do in the game.

 

[LouJersey]

I kind of laugh at the 3rd line comment because I can easily take that as "On the Bruins we see him as a 3rd liner who can play the PK" and that makes sense.

Pasta is 1st or 2nd line RW and then you have guys like Bjork, Heinen & Donato who can play RW. I don't think its a knock on Senyshyn as much as it is how deep Boston is with young guys who can play RW lol. And whose to say Senyshyn on the 3rd line doesn't come in and score 20-30 goals and give you 50-60 points? Heinen put up 47 points playing predominately on the 3rd line this year lol.

I think so people get way to focused on what line people play on vs what they actually do in the game.

Exactly. Top 9 in this day and age are all interchangeable unless you have a super line like us. The ESTOI is what, 15, 13,11 for the top 9 forwards anyways?

 

[Ratty]

This whole situation reminds me of pat light, former Red Sox prospect. The first couple years he was in the system they essentially had him stop throwing his splitter because it was a great pitch for him and they wanted him to work on his 3rd and 4th pitch to develop since his fastball/splitter combo would be too much of a crutch and he would breeze through the minors and never have a 3rd pitch. Well, that didn’t work. He never got a 3rd pitch, his confidence went in the toilet. His fastball was too straight and his splitter turned out to be not as dominant as they thought it would be (maybe it was lack of use for 2 years).

So senyshyn is fast and has a great shot. Boston knows that. So instead of putting him in positions where he can just use his speed and shot would be enough to breeze through the minors and he wouldn’t develop a defensive game. So they put him with 3rd and 4th liners which will make his shot less useable without someone to get him the puck so he’s forced to develop other parts of his game, since his speed and shot alone while good, isn’t enough on their own to become a great forward. He needs to be more well rounded.

I worry that this method of putting him down the lineup to improve his defense at the expense of his stats and his current strengths could have a negative effect on his confidence which could have an impact on his impact on the offensive side when he finally gets a chance to play in the top 6.

I’ve kind of always been a little up and down on senyshyn. I think his speed could really be a weapon. But until I see him in the nhl I’m not sure how fast he really is. I keep hearing he’s an elite skater and all that but what’s elite? Is he the best skater in the organization? Is he a mcdavid level skater? Or is he just a really good skater a la paccioretty? Because max is a great skater but it’s not like his speed is such a plus it has significant impact on a game the way a seguin or mcdavid speed does. I guess that’s my big question. I know he has a great shot and great speed. But is it a great shot as in Better than what I saw from donato? Is it a laine type shot? Or is it just like a Nathan Horton shot, which was good and certainly nhl level but not a “difference maker.” I mean if he has laines shot and mcdavids speed i think that’s elite. But if he’s just a fast skater with a good shot what makes him different from vatrano?

umm...size?

 

[Montecristo]

umm...size?

How much is size really part of his game though? And how big is he really? Some sites have him at 6-1, 200, which is seguin level size. No one uses the term “size” to describe seguins skill set. Or is he 6-3 205, as other publications have him. Then I could see size being an actual difference, particularly if he could get up to 215-220 and maintain his speed. Kreider is 6-3 225 and a lot of Kreider comparisons come about here on him. But at 6-1, 200 he’s hardly the size of Kreider

 

[chizzler]

Kid has been in Providence one year and people are going ape shit that he’s a bust. Half of you haven’t even seen him play. Stop worrying where he got drafted. He’s got plenty of time to make it still.

 

[neelynugs]

How much is size really part of his game though? And how big is he really? Some sites have him at 6-1, 200, which is seguin level size. No one uses the term “size” to describe seguins skill set. Or is he 6-3 205, as other publications have him. Then I could see size being an actual difference, particularly if he could get up to 215-220 and maintain his speed. Kreider is 6-3 225 and a lot of Kreider comparisons come about here on him. But at 6-1, 200 he’s hardly the size of Kreider

providence bruins roster says he's 6'3", 190, FWIW.

 

[Ratty]

How much is size really part of his game though? And how big is he really? Some sites have him at 6-1, 200, which is seguin level size. No one uses the term “size” to describe seguins skill set. Or is he 6-3 205, as other publications have him. Then I could see size being an actual difference, particularly if he could get up to 215-220 and maintain his speed. Kreider is 6-3 225 and a lot of Kreider comparisons come about here on him. But at 6-1, 200 he’s hardly the size of Kreider

I don't know what web sites you're looking at but hockey db has him at 6'3 as does AHL.com. Wikipedia has him at 6'2.

Not to belabor the point but the guy is bigger than 5'9" Vatrano, no? And size does matter especially scrapping in the corners or along the boards.

 

[bruins4thecup65]

We truly lack a Marc Savard type guy who would put up more assists than goals by far. I'm hoping Zachary can be that guy.

The spot is there for the taking he just has to want it real real bad.

I am projecting him as a top 6.

 

[Montecristo]

I don't know what web sites you're looking at but hockey db has him at 6'3 as does AHL.com. Wikipedia has him at 6'2.

Not to belabor the point but the guy is bigger than 5'9" Vatrano, no? And size does matter especially scrapping in the corners or along the boards.

Elite prospects has him at 6-1. NHL.com has him at 6-1. HockeyDB has him at 6-3. His final year in the ohl he was listed at 6-2 I believe. I couldn’t find his height listed on ahl but either way. It’s anywhere from 6-1 to 6-3 and 192-195 pounds. I think 6-1 is just a hair above the average height and weight of an nhler? Isn’t like 6-0, 190 an average hockey player? So if he’s at 6-1, 192 i wouldn’t call his size an advantage. If he’s 6-3 then that’s an advantage and can be considered one of his positive attributes. But if he’s 6-1 he doesn’t get any points from me for his size not being a weakness. Ovechkin is 6-3, 225, Kreider is around there as well. If senyshyn can be 6-3, 225 then let’s start talking about how he’s a power forward. But if he’s 6-1 or 6-2, and 195 pounds, a power forward, he is not.

And I just said vatrano because I couldn’t think of another guy off the top of my head that is fast, good shot, subpar at everything else. Wasn’t a perfect player in regards to senyshyns profile.

What I really wanted to know is that when people say his speed is elite, are we talking like gaborik level elite? Bure level? Or is he just run of the mill really fast like paille was? Is it just really good or is it generational? People say 5/5 skating and I think bure is a 5/5, so is he a bure level skater?

 

[BruinsNetwork]

Elite prospects has him at 6-1. NHL.com has him at 6-1. HockeyDB has him at 6-3. His final year in the ohl he was listed at 6-2 I believe. I couldn’t find his height listed on ahl but either way. It’s anywhere from 6-1 to 6-3 and 192-195 pounds. I think 6-1 is just a hair above the average height and weight of an nhler? Isn’t like 6-0, 190 an average hockey player? So if he’s at 6-1, 192 i wouldn’t call his size an advantage. If he’s 6-3 then that’s an advantage and can be considered one of his positive attributes. But if he’s 6-1 he doesn’t get any points from me for his size not being a weakness. Ovechkin is 6-3, 225, Kreider is around there as well. If senyshyn can be 6-3, 225 then let’s start talking about how he’s a power forward. But if he’s 6-1 or 6-2, and 195 pounds, a power forward, he is not.

And I just said vatrano because I couldn’t think of another guy off the top of my head that is fast, good shot, subpar at everything else. Wasn’t a perfect player in regards to senyshyns profile.

What I really wanted to know is that when people say his speed is elite, are we talking like gaborik level elite? Bure level? Or is he just run of the mill really fast like paille was? Is it just really good or is it generational? People say 5/5 skating and I think bure is a 5/5, so is he a bure level skater?