Boston Bruins Bruins Prospects Discussion V - 3 warnings posted - Stay On Subject only!

[DKH]

Bottom line is Zach Senyshyn got the Johnny Boychuk hands on development treatment

If you ever saw Boychuk in Providence you would never know it was the same guy and I’m not even talking hair

The Bruins took an approach to Senyshyn where the designed a plan to address what he would need to improve on to be an NHL player

He’s probably at minimum another 1/2 season away

 

[BruinsNetwork]

I'm reminded of the path Andreas Athanasiou took to the NHL.

I do however think ZS is faster, smarter, and has more goal scoring ability.

Would anyone not take Athanasiou right now?

Agree, Dom.

AA was also put in a better position to succeed during his time for the Griffins, whereas Senyshyn has been tasked with limited TOI in the bottom-six to work on his 200-foot game.

In regards to the timeline, they’re close to the same path it seems. I have high hopes for Senyshyn this year in Providence and really think he’s going to start opening eyes.

 

[Rumpy]

I'm reminded of the path Andreas Athanasiou took to the NHL.

I do however think ZS is faster, smarter, and has more goal scoring ability.

Would anyone not take Athanasiou right now?

I’d rather have Dan Paille. But if that’s what we are hoping for at this point then you are proving other posters right.

To have any hope of resonance in that draft he better turn into Simon Gagne.

Im still hoping for 30-30 from him when/if he makes it.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I’d rather have Dan Paille. But if that’s what we are hoping for at this point then you are proving other posters right.

To have any hope of resonance in that draft he better turn into Sam Gagne.

Im still hoping for 30-30 from him when/if he makes it.

Age 23 AA: 172 gp, 43g/33a, -21

Age 23 Paille: 120gp, 23g/26a, +19


I don’t remember Paille at that age, but it would appear AA is a better offensive player. Paille turned into a very solid defensive guy, but I suspect the plus/minus disparity at this point in their careers was due to BUF being very strong at the time under Lindy Ruff and DET sucking.

Not too get to side-tracked, but Gagner was the 6th pick, different situation. Personally, I’m hoping for a Chris Kreider like development. He was taken by the Rangers 19th overall in 2009. Spent three years at BC. In 12/13 (short season) he played 48 games in the AHL and 23 in the NHL (only 3 pts). The following year he started in the AHL (age 22), had 4 pts in 6 games, got called up and never looked back.

I think Senyshyn can get some NHL games this year due to injury and establish himself next year as an NHL regular.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Fifteenth picks overall since 2000 (and a couple of guys who went later):

2000: Artem Kryukov (Hossa 16th, Kronwall 29th)

2001: Igor Knyazev (Roy 32nd, Pominville 55nd)

2002: Jesse Niniimaki (Alex Steen 24th, Cam Ward 25th)

2003: Robert Nilsson (Getzlaf 19th, Burns 20th)

2004: Radulov (Zajac 20th, Krejci 63rd)

2005: Ryan O’Marra (Neal 33rd, Stastny 44th)

2006: Riku Helenius (Giroux 22nd, Lucic 50th)

2007: Alex Plante (Max-Pac 22nd, PK 43rd)

2008: Erik Karlsson (Eberle 22nd, Carlson 27th)

2009: Peter Holland (Johansson 24th, ROR 33rd)

2010: Derek Forbort (Tank 16th, Kuz 26th)

2011: JT Miller (Rakell 30th, Saad 43rd)

2012: Ceci (Hertl 17th, Pearson 30th)

2013: Pulock (Zadarov 16th, Burakovsky 23rd)

2014: Larkin (Pasta 25th, Point 79th)

2015: Senyshyn (Barzal 16th, Connor 17th)


I realize it’s frustrating because there were a lot of guys available that look like they will be very good players, but it’s not like the 15th pick has been money over the years.

Sixteen drafts and only two studs. Not good numbers in the midway spot of the 1st round.

Give Senyshyn some time before we decide where he belongs on that list.

 

[Estlin]

I can personally tell you that there were about six other teams targeting Senyshyn in the first round in 2015.

Assuming that's true, I (and probably some others here) would be curious to know which teams those were.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Assuming that's true, I (and probably some others here) would be curious to know which teams those were.

It’s been discussed before, but EDM (16) was rumored to be interested and both DET (19) and TOR (24) told his agent they were taking him if he was available. Toronto and Kyle Dubas (now Leaf’s GM, was AGM at the time) made a lot of sense because he had just left the Soo as their GM and knew Senyshyn well. Not sure who the other rumored three teams were?

 

[Estlin]

It’s been discussed before, but EDM (16) was rumored to be interested and both DET (19) and TOR (24) told his agent they were taking him if he was available. Toronto and Kyle Dubas (now Leaf’s GM, was AGM at the time) made a lot of sense because he had just left the Soo as their GM and knew Senyshyn well. Not sure who the other rumored three teams were?

I knew the rumors about Detroit and Toronto, but Edmonton is new to me. I heard that the Oilers were targeting Joel Eriksson Ek with the #16 pick (before trading it away).

 

[Gee Wally]

This thread is to discuss Bruins prospects. As stated earlier in the thread. Numerous times now.

NOT who could of should of been a Bruin's prospect.

If anyone wants to discuss other team's players use the NHL talk thread.

This is the last public warning on the matter.

Third and FINAL WARNING - going forward you will be thread banned!

 

[Montecristo]

Fifteenth picks overall since 2000 (and a couple of guys who went later):

2000: Artem Kryukov (Hossa 16th, Kronwall 29th)

2001: Igor Knyazev (Roy 32nd, Pominville 55nd)

2002: Jesse Niniimaki (Alex Steen 24th, Cam Ward 25th)

2003: Robert Nilsson (Getzlaf 19th, Burns 20th)

2004: Radulov (Zajac 20th, Krejci 63rd)

2005: Ryan O’Marra (Neal 33rd, Stastny 44th)

2006: Riku Helenius (Giroux 22nd, Lucic 50th)

2007: Alex Plante (Max-Pac 22nd, PK 43rd)

2008: Erik Karlsson (Eberle 22nd, Carlson 27th)

2009: Peter Holland (Johansson 24th, ROR 33rd)

2010: Derek Forbort (Tank 16th, Kuz 26th)

2011: JT Miller (Rakell 30th, Saad 43rd)

2012: Ceci (Hertl 17th, Pearson 30th)

2013: Pulock (Zadarov 16th, Burakovsky 23rd)

2014: Larkin (Pasta 25th, Point 79th)

2015: Senyshyn (Barzal 16th, Connor 17th)


I realize it’s frustrating because there were a lot of guys available that look like they will be very good players, but it’s not like the 15th pick has been money over the years.

Sixteen drafts and only two studs. Not good numbers in the midway spot of the 1st round.

Give Senyshyn some time before we decide where he belongs on that list.

I’m well aware of the history of the 15 pick. But really any pick outside of the top 10 you can make a similar list. It’s not an excuse for the bruins to be wrong because people have missed in spot 15 before. The fact that the players directly after him are the examples of players taken later is the problem. It’s one thing if pick 15 didn’t work out and the next player drafted that did was pick 33. Then it’s just a matter of it being a weak draft and a team finding a diamond in the rough. In Boston’s case, they took a potential diamond in the rough but the problem is that they weren’t picking through the rough at that point. They were picking through diamonds and settled on some dirty rock that maybe one day might be a diamond. Sure it could work out, but if what dkh says is right about 1-2 years before nhl contribution and I assume even longer before impact level success, the pick is already a mild disappointment. And that’s if everything breaks right and he turns into Kreider in 4 years. Yes that will be great. But it would have been nice to have a contribution from that pick for the Bergeron, marchand, krejci core prior to their decline.

Best case in 3 years we say “Sweeney picked a legit top 6 forward and right now we finally know it 6 years later.” That best case scenario is still slightly irritating. You know what I mean? I’d rather them draft the guy that was a legit top 6 forward 3 years after being taken, not 6.

 

[False Start]

Age 23 AA: 172 gp, 43g/33a, -21

Age 23 Paille: 120gp, 23g/26a, +19


I don’t remember Paille at that age, but it would appear AA is a better offensive player. Paille turned into a very solid defensive guy, but I suspect the plus/minus disparity at this point in their careers was due to BUF being very strong at the time under Lindy Ruff and DET sucking.

Not too get to side-tracked, but Gagner was the 6th pick, different situation. Personally, I’m hoping for a Chris Kreider like development. He was taken by the Rangers 19th overall in 2009. Spent three years at BC. In 12/13 (short season) he played 48 games in the AHL and 23 in the NHL (only 3 pts). The following year he started in the AHL (age 22), had 4 pts in 6 games, got called up and never looked back.

I think Senyshyn can get some NHL games this year due to injury and establish himself next year as an NHL regular.

Kreider is my best case comparison for Senyshyn. Huge, fast skating, goal scorer.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Kreider is my best case comparison for Senyshyn. Huge, fast skating, goal scorer.

I would assume I’m reading this wrong, since usually when I see “best case” I feel that it was expected of something greater. If someone said that Senyshyn turns into anything like a Kreider-Esque player on draft day, that would have been excellent anyway.

 

[False Start]

I would assume I’m reading this wrong, since usually when I see “best case” I feel that it was expected of something greater. If someone said that Senyshyn turns into anything like a Kreider-Esque player on draft day, that would have been excellent anyway.

If Senyshyn can become a middle 6, 50 pt winger that pick is definitely a success. I'm not worried for now as far as I am concerned but I would have liked to see him produce more in the AHL in his first year.

For now i think the worst case is he becomes Danny Paille, speed and strong defensively with bad offense. Which would be a bad first round pick but still a useful player.

 

[Rumpy]

Age 23 AA: 172 gp, 43g/33a, -21

Age 23 Paille: 120gp, 23g/26a, +19


I don’t remember Paille at that age, but it would appear AA is a better offensive player. Paille turned into a very solid defensive guy, but I suspect the plus/minus disparity at this point in their careers was due to BUF being very strong at the time under Lindy Ruff and DET sucking.

Not too get to side-tracked, but Gagner was the 6th pick, different situation. Personally, I’m hoping for a Chris Kreider like development. He was taken by the Rangers 19th overall in 2009. Spent three years at BC. In 12/13 (short season) he played 48 games in the AHL and 23 in the NHL (only 3 pts). The following year he started in the AHL (age 22), had 4 pts in 6 games, got called up and never looked back.

I think Senyshyn can get some NHL games this year due to injury and establish himself next year as an NHL regular.

Solid response, and made me laugh to start my day. I fully intended to compare him to Simon Gagne - the philly speedster with some finish that ended his career in Boston as opposed to Sam Gagne and was wondering what the hell haha.

Paille and AA for my 2 cents are speedsters without a brain that frustrate the hell out of me to watch.

Another guy we could still hope for comparison wise that I just thought of is a better Marco Sturm.

Who I think is the best one I can think of. Personally I never really like Sturm because I thought he was overpaid and the scenario of how we got him. I can’t argue he had a decent career and would be happy if Zach ended up being just a bit better at the end of the day.

 

[veganbruin]

Boston Bruins: Ryan Fitzgerald Has Immediate NHL Potential
I saw this article from the hockey writers today. I also see Fitzy getting a good shot at bottom 6 action next year. Wouldn’t be surprised if his ceiling is higher than most here have him.

 

[DKH]

I’d rather have Dan Paille. But if that’s what we are hoping for at this point then you are proving other posters right.

To have any hope of resonance in that draft he better turn into Sam Gagne.

Im still hoping for 30-30 from him when/if he makes it.

v

 

[SanDogBrewin]

66 AHL games and people are already writing off Senyshyn....WOW

And most have never seen Senyshyn in Providence. Just looking at box scores. I bet ZS gets some games with Boston this upcoming season.

 

[Number8]

His hands don't seem that good. Craig Button rated them as a 3 out of 5.

If Craig Button says he has 3 hands I suddenly feel very optimistic. I don't put much stock in old Craig.

For me Craig Button is kind of like George Costanza opposite day.

 

[DKH]

The two guys who should get featured leadership/prime minutes in Providence assuming they are still with organization are ZS and Zboril.

Not sure about where JFK will be but he could start in Providence and be the man

My 2015 draft line

DeBrusk- JFK- Senyshyn

Will happen at some point and be successful in Boston

Don ‘swing n’ a miss’ Sweeney is on the beginning of a long roll and this will be a nice ‘f*** you posters on the Main Board’

 

[Dr Hook]

this will be a nice ‘**** you posters on the Main Board’

And no small number of posters in here, either

 

[rocketdan9]

I have never seen him live, but I think it’s a little disingenuous to say he doesn’t have skill. Someone who has watched him regularly could probably comment better on the hockey smarts part.



He seems to possess some skills?

I remember on another forum someone comparing him to Michael Grabner. Blistering speed/nose for the net/shields the puck nicely

Not a natural in any other areas of the game.

Third liner with 30 goal potential?

 

[rocketdan9]

Edit: Broken-link to tweet, corrected it.

not a good pass

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Fifteenth picks overall since 2000 (and a couple of guys who went later):

2000: Artem Kryukov (Hossa 16th, Kronwall 29th)

2001: Igor Knyazev (Roy 32nd, Pominville 55nd)

2002: Jesse Niniimaki (Alex Steen 24th, Cam Ward 25th)

2003: Robert Nilsson (Getzlaf 19th, Burns 20th)

2004: Radulov (Zajac 20th, Krejci 63rd)

2005: Ryan O’Marra (Neal 33rd, Stastny 44th)

2006: Riku Helenius (Giroux 22nd, Lucic 50th)

2007: Alex Plante (Max-Pac 22nd, PK 43rd)

2008: Erik Karlsson (Eberle 22nd, Carlson 27th)

2009: Peter Holland (Johansson 24th, ROR 33rd)

2010: Derek Forbort (Tank 16th, Kuz 26th)

2011: JT Miller (Rakell 30th, Saad 43rd)

2012: Ceci (Hertl 17th, Pearson 30th)

2013: Pulock (Zadarov 16th, Burakovsky 23rd)

2014: Larkin (Pasta 25th, Point 79th)

2015: Senyshyn (Barzal 16th, Connor 17th)


I realize it’s frustrating because there were a lot of guys available that look like they will be very good players, but it’s not like the 15th pick has been money over the years.

Sixteen drafts and only two studs. Not good numbers in the midway spot of the 1st round.

Give Senyshyn some time before we decide where he belongs on that list.

sooooooo many misconceptions about the draft... it seems to just be gospel that if you miss a pick you must suck

of course, making picks is very very helpful... but outside the top 5-10 the success rate is 50% and lower to ever find a difference maker

at pick 15... if you start to eliminate 4th liners as a success you are below 50%

and whether theres better success later in the draft is irrelevent. some kids develop and some dont. honestly if anyone was certain a later kid like marchand or bergeron were that good... the team would most certainly trade up to get them.

scouts have hunches a kid might develop but any scout that manages to hit paydirt on a marchand or lucic or bergeron... will still have a fail rate

no one gets it right more than 50%

so... cut the scouts some slack. have a bit of humble pie about our own skills. i pick 3 or 4 favorites to draft every year and my success is way way way below 50%

i admire the heck out of our success rate identifying and drafting nhl talent. our collection of kids we brought into nhl is better than anyones

perfect? no
but best... yes

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

If Senyshyn can become a middle 6, 50 pt winger that pick is definitely a success. I'm not worried for now as far as I am concerned but I would have liked to see him produce more in the AHL in his first year.

For now i think the worst case is he becomes Danny Paille, speed and strong defensively with bad offense. Which would be a bad first round pick but still a useful player.

theres worst worst case... not too long ago we had martin samuelsson in our minors... a few years before that we had cameron mann down there

i said worst case... we get a speedy checker. but i was wrong

here in alberta... calgary spent a top pick on rico fata...

there are worst case chances out there that even the best skating kids can miss. kids need to be willing to learn... to put out consistent effort... to live hockey

i think fans who want to project prospect success get way too tied up with what we see with the naked eye... but if it was really that easy the pros would be far more successful drafting the best kids in order

what we cant see does often matter. the number of no brainers in a draft might get counted on 2 hands... after that there needs to be some extra factors that go into determining which kids end up successful

 

[DominicT]

The only thing that will change the success rate when drafting is raising the draft age. It would reduce some of the projecting (or guessing). And we all know, not all players develop at the same pace (or at all).

The OHL has no less then 12 players re-entering the draft with a realistic chance of being drafted. That is an extremely high number compared to previous years. Two of those twelve are re-entering for the third time - Justin Brazeau and Brandon Saigeon.

Of course, if the NHL (and the NHLPA) were to try and raise it, there will probably be another Ken Linseman out there somewhere.