Value of: Brooks Orpik to NYR

[hb12xchamps]

Rangers eat 100% Orp's 5.5, I would do
Rangers 2018 3rd and 2019 2nd
for
Orpik and Caps 2018 and 2019 1sts

If the Caps ate half, I do the NY 2019 2nd for the 2019 1st.
Granted, it is 1st next year, but this year's 1st is the last 1st.

This is ridiculous overpayment for one year of a contract that really isn't as horrible as everyone is making it out to be. There's never been a trade where someone has to combine multiple first round draft picks to dump a contract with one year left.

Orpik has nothing but positive value at this time, even if it's only a later round draft pick from an up and coming team looking for a mentor for their D (see Buffalo). People rely too much on stats and charts when discussing a player and anyone with a set of eyes could see that Orpik played very well down the stretch and was a warrior on the ice. By all accounts, his locker room presence, leadership and the respect his teammates have for him have been a huge reason as to why Washington was able to win a Stanley Cup.

 

[hb12xchamps]

too busy in real world to go there
late or not is not regardless, it is factual real consideration

like I said, the new and relevant factor is there is significant competition among multiple clubs who each want to ditch a bad contract. Previously, cap pressure was not what it was; the cap was not as hard, clubs w/$ could buyout more readily, etc.

Now, not so many loopholes.
Cap is TIGHTLY regulated.
If you want to buy a piece of some club's salary allotment, it is going to increasingly cost ya.

Just, no. This makes zero sense and there has never been a deal like you proposed. 1 year of a "bad" contract isn't going to cost 2 first rounders to move. If that's the case, teams like Edmonton are going to have to pay 5 first rounders to dump a contract like Lucic

 

[bernmeister]

This is ridiculous overpayment for one year of a contract that really isn't as horrible as everyone is making it out to be. There's never been a trade where someone has to combine multiple first round draft picks to dump a contract with one year left.

Orpik has nothing but positive value at this time, even if it's only a later round draft pick from an up and coming team looking for a mentor for their D (see Buffalo). People rely too much on stats and charts when discussing a player and anyone with a set of eyes could see that Orpik played very well down the stretch and was a warrior on the ice. By all accounts, his locker room presence, leadership and the respect his teammates have for him have been a huge reason as to why Washington was able to win a Stanley Cup.

There is no ? he actually contributed productively, whether tangibly or intangibly.

However, OP went where he did reaching out to NYR specifically anticipating a prob with the cap which cannot be ignored.

Orpick WILL be kept if there is ANY ability to finagle him staying.

But if not, his $ will be dominant, not other factors.

 

[hb12xchamps]

There is no ? he actually contributed productively, whether tangibly or intangibly.

However, OP went where he did reaching out to NYR specifically anticipating a prob with the cap which cannot be ignored.

Orpick WILL be kept if there is ANY ability to finagle him staying.

But if not, his $ will be dominant, not other factors.

There are a lot other routes Washington can take that make sense instead of trading multiple 1st rounders to dump Orpik. It's a silly idea. At that rate, I'd rather buy him out

 

[bernmeister]

Just, no. This makes zero sense and there has never been a deal like you proposed. 1 year of a "bad" contract isn't going to cost 2 first rounders to move. If that's the case, teams like Edmonton are going to have to pay 5 first rounders to dump a contract like Lucic

Yes, not no, it makes sense from the other side.
You ignore all 1sts not = and your 1st is last this year, late next year.
And like I said there are competitive factors.
It is more favorable than Seabrook or Ryan, etc.

And welcome to reality, new replacing the old.
No one is gonna take on Lucic from Oil unless there is payment through the nose and then some.
Thought that a team, likely a bottom feeder, will accept only a single 1st and maybe minimal for Lucic is not reality.
5-6 years for a horrible deal, declining player, top dollar.

He's all yours, unless you want to make it worth my while.

Now Orpik is much more desirable, but given you are trying to keep the band together and only have late 1sts, I am not sure what there is, for the entirety of $ with no retention, other than those 1sts, w/NY adding the other way.

Like I said, if you'd rather offer me a nice prospect or 2 instead of the picks, I'll listen.

But we are not bending over for cap dumps; worthwhile reason to go there is serious requirement.

 

[PensandCaps]

Can't see a team even though it's only 1 year taking garbage Orpik at 5+ million.
Caps would have to retain 50%, which still would save them cap space. They'd get nothing in return for him...even half of 5 mil is an overpayment for Orpik.

 

[bernmeister]

There are a lot other routes Washington can take that make sense instead of trading multiple 1st rounders to dump Orpik. It's a silly idea. At that rate, I'd rather buy him out

Fine, and that is your right.
All of these choices have various costs.
Buy out also retains some level of salary, incl first year of it.

Nothing is free.

 

[hb12xchamps]

Yes, not no, it makes sense from the other side.
You ignore all 1sts not = and your 1st is last this year, late next year.
And like I said there are competitive factors.
It is more favorable than Seabrook or Ryan, etc.

And welcome to reality, new replacing the old.
No one is gonna take on Lucic from Oil unless there is payment through the nose and then some.
Thought that a team, likely a bottom feeder, will accept only a single 1st and maybe minimal for Lucic is not reality.
5-6 years for a horrible deal, declining player, top dollar.

He's all yours, unless you want to make it worth my while.

Now Orpik is much more desirable, but given you are trying to keep the band together and only have late 1sts, I am not sure what there is, for the entirety of $ with no retention, other than those 1sts, w/NY adding the other way.

Like I said, if you'd rather offer me a nice prospect or 2 instead of the picks, I'll listen.

But we are not bending over for cap dumps; worthwhile reason to go there is serious requirement.

Keep living in your fantasy land man. There's never been a team that's let go of multiple first round picks to dump one year of a contract. It's NEVER happened and it never will. The GM dumb enough to do that would get run out of town.

 

[bernmeister]

Can't see a team even though it's only 1 year taking garbage Orpik at 5+ million.
Caps would have to retain 50%, which still would save them cap space. They'd get nothing in return for him...even half of 5 mil is an overpayment for Orpik.

I could see someone swallowing the whole nut, but they have to make it worth the acquiring team's while.
A cheap return won't cut it.

Cap 2nd + nice prospect min for half could work
more for whole 5+.

 

[bernmeister]

Keep living in your fantasy land man. There's never been a team that's let go of multiple first round picks to dump one year of a contract. It's NEVER happened and it never will. The GM dumb enough to do that would get run out of town.

Fine, I'll stay where I am and hopefully you will juggle your way to retain Orpik for his final year at that #.

But if not, you will capitulate and pay a significant enuf price to a team doing you a favor and taking on the contract, or you can let it suck the air out of your cap space for next season.

Your call.

I'll consider other than 2 late 1sts if you can offer same worthwhile.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

too busy in real world to go there
late or not is not regardless, it is factual real consideration

like I said, the new and relevant factor is there is significant competition among multiple clubs who each want to ditch a bad contract. Previously, cap pressure was not what it was; the cap was not as hard, clubs w/$ could buyout more readily, etc.

Now, not so many loopholes.
Cap is TIGHTLY regulated.
If you want to buy a piece of some club's salary allotment, it is going to increasingly cost ya.

I'll save you the time: it's never happened. It's not going to happen.

2 1st round picks for 1 year of Orpik... yeesh.

 

[hb12xchamps]

Fine, I'll stay where I am and hopefully you will juggle your way to retain Orpik for his final year at that #.

But if not, you will capitulate and pay a significant enuf price to a team doing you a favor and taking on the contract, or you can let it suck the air out of your cap space for next season.

Your call.

I'll consider other than 2 late 1sts if you can offer same worthwhile.

This thread was started by a NYR fan. The Caps aren't offering anything to dump him at this time

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

There is no ? he actually contributed productively, whether tangibly or intangibly.

However, OP went where he did reaching out to NYR specifically anticipating a prob with the cap which cannot be ignored.

Orpick WILL be kept if there is ANY ability to finagle him staying.

But if not, his $ will be dominant, not other factors.

OP is a Ranger's fan...

 

[TGWL]

all of the above.

That said, and as a courtesy to OP, there is a point at which if enough is on the table, it makes sense as a biz decision to eat the $ - esp if it is only 1 yr - and take the assets.

Caps likely to prefer to keep Orpik, but if they are cap squeezed enough, they may look that way. In that case, understand they are in competition with other teams looking to dump cap --- Seabrook w/CHI, Ryan w/OTT, etc. --- and while not all these contracts are equally bad, they compete for roster space w/each other as well as NY's own bad deals.

Given that, assuming Rangers eat 100% Orp's 5.5, I would do
Rangers 2018 3rd and 2019 2nd
for
Orpik and Caps 2018 and 2019 1sts

If the Caps ate half, I do the NY 2019 2nd for the 2019 1st.
Granted, it is 1st next year, but this year's 1st is the last 1st.

Cap space is a valued asset, being finite it commands, up to a premium.
OP was polite and respectful ask.
But as EssEmmEll sentiments, we don't want to become a dumping ground, and to make an exception to that policy, it will cost. If you get a cheaper taker elsewhere, terrif.

We are not doing a contract like Ryan, with all that term on top of top $, for a single mere 1st or so, and if we took him on at all, it would be while sending Marc Staal the other way.

Bern, no disrespect, but sometimes you have to take a step back and really think about the offers you're tossing out. Even you can't break this down and think it's the best deal for the Capitals to do. 2018 & 2019 is insane. It's not fair value. It's not the value they need to pay for a team to take Orpik. It's not a return any realistic thinking GM would ask for. Orpik is a UFA.

Worst case scenario, Orpik is traded for a late round pick, Orpik is bought out, or Orpik is put on waivers and I'm sure someone is going to claim him. You're looking at this as Washington is in cap hell, will be losing star players and are on the verge of becoming a bottom team if they don't turn around and bribe a team to take Orpik - that's not the case here. The cap continues to go up. If Washington really wants to pay Carlson's demands, they will find a way without giving up 2 first round picks.

If Rangers were still contenders and didn't buy out Girardi (Had the 2018-2019 been his UFA year), would you trade Girardi and 2 first round picks to get out of that 5.5 million contract?

 

[THE Green Man]

This is ridiculous overpayment for one year of a contract that really isn't as horrible as everyone is making it out to be. There's never been a trade where someone has to combine multiple first round draft picks to dump a contract with one year left.

Orpik has nothing but positive value at this time, even if it's only a later round draft pick from an up and coming team looking for a mentor for their D (see Buffalo). People rely too much on stats and charts when discussing a player and anyone with a set of eyes could see that Orpik played very well down the stretch and was a warrior on the ice. By all accounts, his locker room presence, leadership and the respect his teammates have for him have been a huge reason as to why Washington was able to win a Stanley Cup.

Orpik at his cap hit does not have positive value- I would be shocked to see a team give up assets for a 38 year old bottom pairing defenceman making 5.5M on the salary cap. His playoff performance definitely showed he is still capable of filling a role on a team in PK duties and provide leadership but not at that price. If you retained half a team may give up something though. To me the three guarantees to be locked up regardless of Orpik's situation are Carlson, Wilson and Bowey (too young to give up on). IMO the Caps have 3 options: keep Orpik and let potentially Kempny, DSP and Beagle walk. Retain half and be able to sign 2 of those 3 players. Or add a 3rd round pick to Orpik for nothing to be able to bring back all 3 players- and basically have the same Stanley Cup winning team next year except for Orpik and Grubauer.

 

[dumpin]

How does Orpik fit in a rebuild? The Rangers are in a youth movement. I don't think he fits into the current plan. If they were looking at playoffs Orpik would be a good add.

 

[Kupo]

Rick Nash since. Marc Staal, Dan Girardi, Lundqvist (ouch) recently or currently. I guess they aren’t Has-Beens, they’re Never-Weres. Continuing the theme Brad Richards but at least he was a true Has-Been.

If that guy has nothing better than a finger for the Capitals I have a few things for Rangers fans. They start with F and end with U.

Dumbest post I’ve read here in a long time. Congrats!

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Really? Why on earth would we do this? We're just going to become a dumping ground for has beens in exchange for a bunch of magic beans? I'm not in on this Capitals love-in. You got your cup. Good for you. The only thing I have for them is the finger I'm holding up. They shouldn't be looking in this direction for much more than that, and I hope management feels the same way.

This is the kind of salt I love.....thanks for your portion!


On Orpik:

Orpik has positive value to a team full of young D and with the cap room. I’d like to see us trade him, then reacquire at the deadline, then transition him into an assistant coach. Incredible mentor and leader IMO.

Caps will NOT be paying some dumb ass price for one year of his deal. 3rd rounder tops....if anything.

 

[HeyMattyB]

Fine, I'll stay where I am and hopefully you will juggle your way to retain Orpik for his final year at that #.

But if not, you will capitulate and pay a significant enuf price to a team doing you a favor and taking on the contract, or you can let it suck the air out of your cap space for next season.

Your call.

I'll consider other than 2 late 1sts if you can offer same worthwhile.

In case it's not clear, no Caps fan (or any hockey fan who knows anything about Orpik's contract/role/importance to the Caps) is interested in buying what you're selling. You can argue and plead until you're blue in the face but, like, no. Just, no. Not even close.

 

[bernmeister]

This thread was started by a NYR fan. The Caps aren't offering anything to dump him at this time

OP is a Ranger's fan...

I stand corrected as to OP being a Rangers fan.

However, we are not taking on 5+m principally being a cap hit for anything not worthwhile.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Going to need to use the Copy & Paste function for all Orpik proposals it looks like.

1. He does not have negative value.
2. He has one year left on his contract. It's disingenuous to continue painting him as someone with an albatross of a contract.
3. He was the 3rd player to receive the Cup behind Ovie and Backstrom. Tom Wilson said that the team will stop partying when Orpik says it's time to get back to work. The organization loves him and he's the leader of the locker room.
4. The Caps can resign Carlson without having to move Orpik.

Repeating something incorrect doesn't somehow make it less wrong

 

[txpd]

Repeating something incorrect doesn't somehow make it less wrong

please. what about that is incorrect?

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

please. what about that is incorrect?

1. Value is relative. He's an old player with a large cap hit. Most people with an understanding of the cap will realize it's a bad contract, ergo he has negative value
2. Albatross is a strong word and a likely strawman by the OP. But see above- he's a seriously declining player at a bad age
3. When is the last time a hockey player said anything remotely bad about a teammate that they just won the cup with? MAF was the SECOND guy to get the Cup last year and he was gone in the exp draft, what does this even mean?
4. I'll concede as I have no idea what the Caps situation is like

Better?

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

1. Value is relative. He's an old player with a large cap hit. Most people with an understanding of the cap will realize it's a bad contract, ergo he has negative value
2. Albatross is a strong word and a likely strawman by the OP. But see above- he's a seriously declining player at a bad age
3. When is the last time a hockey player said anything remotely bad about a teammate that they just won the cup with? MAF was the SECOND guy to get the Cup last year and he was gone in the exp draft, what does this even mean?
4. I'll concede as I have no idea what the Caps situation is like

Better?

No, not really. But it’s not worth discussing since you already have your mind made up.

 

[Calicaps]

1. Value is relative. He's an old player with a large cap hit. Most people with an understanding of the cap will realize it's a bad contract, ergo he has negative value
2. Albatross is a strong word and a likely strawman by the OP. But see above- he's a seriously declining player at a bad age
3. When is the last time a hockey player said anything remotely bad about a teammate that they just won the cup with? MAF was the SECOND guy to get the Cup last year and he was gone in the exp draft, what does this even mean?
4. I'll concede as I have no idea what the Caps situation is like

Better?

Value is relative. He has a lot of value to the Caps, and they'll happily pay his last year if they can manage it and still get their FA signed. Orpik isn't being paid to be a top 4 D. His money is for his discipline and leadership and 3rd pair minutes/pk. So he's not declining in that context.