News Article: Brooklyn/Belmont Arena Discussion (Islanders to play 20 games at NVMC)

[Costigan77]

On the basis of “it’s the Islanders, nothing ever goes right for us”

Completely understood. But that is as fantasyland and this was going to to through with everyone happy.

They merely tried to slip one through. They go caught. Not a big deal. They did it to get leverage on something else. No harm, no foul

 

[nycole]

Lawsuits need basis....sorry, there is none. You aren't going to file a lawsuit on a "proposal." It isn't the final plan, and they are asking for everything to see what they can get.

What troops will the mayor rally? The 35 people that attended the Amazon rally? I have 5 sets of family members in the Bellereose and Floral Park area. Everyone of them want this, and most have no cares about hockey. And those that are hockey fans, are massive Ranger fans. They understand the economic benefit it provides.

Finally, Elaine Phillips is the chair of the infrastructure committee, and a member of civil service/pensions and environmental. I would hope she speaks up, as this project would affect all 3 committees. She can't squash Cuomo's plan. She is insuring to make noise to ensure Oak View provides funding for infrastructure in the area, uses NY Union workers, and the environmental review isn't a farce.


It gets sad with the negativity on here, especially when it comes from a place of fear, and not sense

If the the State approves final plans that contradict what the RFP laid out, IANAL but I think that's a problem.

I know many more people in Elmont and Floral Park who are against the arena than are for it. Not everyone has time to show up to rallies and listening sessions.

You don't have to exaggerate, we all know there are more than the 35 people who had the time to show up to the Amazon rally. Anyone who thought that one through would realize Amazon traffic would be 20 times worse than half-empty arena traffic.

 

[MJF]

Completely understood. But that is as fantasyland and this was going to to through with everyone happy.

They merely tried to slip one through. They go caught. Not a big deal. They did it to get leverage on something else. No harm, no foul

As long as nothing illegal happened I expect this project to proceed on schedule.

 

[The Lighthouse]

Don't think all of this can't add up to a lawsuit that delays groundbreaking.

With the facts at present, what legal basis is there to commence an action with a request for an injunction?

with each passing day and this Belmont thing seeming delayed by whatever

What delay are you referring to? Did you expect construction to start immediately? There is a process. We know that the environmental review has to occur first.

I feel like this whole thing has been a dog and pony show to get the Isles back to Nassau and either they fully renovate the coli or the Isles move away.

And if Belmont even really does happen, they better be booking 150+ events because if/when the Isles are terrible, the place will be a morgue, just like BC.

Never going to happen. Who's paying to fully renovate it and install the amount of suites necessary to make the arena competitive? After all that, who's securing the sale of the suites? I'd be surprised if there's even a market.

Booking events is the entire point of the arena alliance that Belmont will be a part of.

I'm sorry and @Dipietro39 you can answer too. Which road blocks have come up? Where has there been an issue? Lawsuits? People's words...whom are merely expressing concern, will stop a billion (yes, billion) dollar project.

Don't just say "well this is what usually happens." That's not really the case here. I'm sorry for a month it was rainbows and gumdrops that Belmont was happening asap. But there is always opposition, and words don't really do anything. This 100x more iron clad than the Barclays agreement. Again, people paid more than you will see in 20 lifetimes for a team. Their goal is not to move it. Sorry to burst your "woe is me" bubbles

Thank you. It's not very helpful to go crazy over each little spurt of news that isn't 100% positive. The scope of the project is still being defined, which is extremely obviously going to include some public posturing and private negotiating. Did anyone here really think that there would be no public statements challenging the extent of the development? We're talking about public representatives- they are not going to want to be on record as registering no concerns to significant development.

 

[Mkdaman1818]

Quebec is a relocation destination for sure, if the NHL were to relocate an Eastern Conference team.

I think the path to an awesome NHL structure is relocating the Florida Panthers to Quebec, and the Arizona Coyotes to Houston. This plus the expansion to Seattle gives you 32 teams covering all major North American media markets, and aligns nicely for having 4 team divisions within each conference. I could even give you the divisions right now, but I don’t want to derail.

Bottom line though, the league should keep the Islanders because the rivalry alone with the Rangers itself is worth keeping. There’s a good fan base here and once competent management starts making smart hockey decisions, the contingent will grow.

 

[Isles Junkie]

without searching through the thread, have they announced anything regarding a start date for construction? Are the environmental reports already done?

 

[SI]

without searching through the thread, have they announced anything regarding a start date for construction? Are the environmental reports already done?

Environmental process starts in March - probably a year and then construction- if all goes to plan we'll see 20/21 start

 

[Costigan77]

Pretty funny that everyone freaks that Elaine Phillips spoke out. Yet a major LI business association, whom backed her drastically, is recommending adding even more congestion to Belmont. Still worried that she will do something to stop this? People on here are extremely short sighted


LIA: Move horse racing from Aqueduct to Belmont

 

[Glory Days]

Pretty funny that everyone freaks that Elaine Phillips spoke out. Yet a major LI business association, whom backed her drastically, is recommending adding even more congestion to Belmont. Still worried that she will do something to stop this? People on here are extremely short sighted


LIA: Move horse racing from Aqueduct to Belmont

I still think we could see lawsuits from local civic groups. I don't think they would win but I do think the lawsuits could push the project back. People underestimate NIMBYism. The courts will give them an opportunity to speak. I wouldn't be surprised with a 1 year delay.

 

[Bood12]

With the facts at present, what legal basis is there to commence an action with a request for an injunction?



What delay are you referring to? Did you expect construction to start immediately? There is a process. We know that the environmental review has to occur first.



.

ha go read earlier posts, before this thing was approved, I was skeptical of it happening all along, and people were making it sound like Ledecky probably had plans behind the scenes and they were going to get the shovels in the ground within a couple of months of them announcing the Islanders won, I am willing to bet most people regardless did not expect this thing to be delayed at least a year, people were talking by year 2 of the new Tavares new contract the Islanders should have a nice and shiny new arena for him now(since that was the 1 hold up preventing him from re-signing) now it is looking like maybe year 4?

 

[nycole]

With the facts at present, what legal basis is there to commence an action with a request for an injunction?

From my post you quoted:

Back to the Newsday article, the mayor and Elane Phillips say the newest modifications contradict previous parameters. I'm thinking this is what they're referencing: (RFP, page 6)
"Respondents may also propose an Alternative, which includes the Sites and land adjacent to Site A, north of Hempstead Turnpike. Additional land adjacent to Site A included in Respondents’ proposals shall total no more than seven (7) acres for a total of fifteen (15) acres including Site A."

And just like these politicians are making public statements for their constituents' sake, they'll come together for a lawsuit.

 

[The Lighthouse]

From my post you quoted:

Back to the Newsday article, the mayor and Elane Phillips say the newest modifications contradict previous parameters. I'm thinking this is what they're referencing: (RFP, page 6)
"Respondents may also propose an Alternative, which includes the Sites and land adjacent to Site A, north of Hempstead Turnpike. Additional land adjacent to Site A included in Respondents’ proposals shall total no more than seven (7) acres for a total of fifteen (15) acres including Site A."

And just like these politicians are making public statements for their constituents' sake, they'll come together for a lawsuit.

I don't believe the plan has been finalized - at this point a proposal does not provide a legal basis.

 

[nycole]

Pretty funny that everyone freaks that Elaine Phillips spoke out. Yet a major LI business association, whom backed her drastically, is recommending adding even more congestion to Belmont. Still worried that she will do something to stop this? People on here are extremely short sighted


LIA: Move horse racing from Aqueduct to Belmont

They could have racing there 365 days a year and nobody in the communities surrounding Belmont would have any idea, because horse racing doesn't attract large crowds outside of the Stakes. I used to live there and I had no idea Belmont drew 5,000 on race days. They're not against more horseracing. Actually that's what they should be for. It's the arena and hotel they're against.

FWIW, I am not against an arena at Belmont. Though I am still skeptical about an arena happening for a few reasons.

 

[The Lighthouse]

ha go read earlier posts, before this thing was approved, I was skeptical of it happening all along, and people were making it sound like Ledecky probably had plans behind the scenes and they were going to get the shovels in the ground within a couple of months of them announcing the Islanders won, I am willing to bet most people regardless did not expect this thing to be delayed at least a year, people were talking by year 2 of the new Tavares new contract the Islanders should have a nice and shiny new arena for him now(since that was the 1 hold up preventing him from re-signing) now it is looking like maybe year 4?

The arena being ready within Tavares' second contract year was a highly unrealistic expectation.

 

[Spybot]

Apparently the players don't consider the Barclays ice the worst in the league. Improvement!

NHLPA Player Poll 2017-18

 

[Costigan77]

I still think we could see lawsuits from local civic groups. I don't think they would win but I do think the lawsuits could push the project back. People underestimate NIMBYism. The courts will give them an opportunity to speak. I wouldn't be surprised with a 1 year delay.

On what basis?

Also, this is state land. Nimbyism has expired. Sorry.

 

[Costigan77]

They could have racing there 365 days a year and nobody in the communities surrounding Belmont would have any idea, because horse racing doesn't attract large crowds outside of the Stakes. I used to live there and I had no idea Belmont drew 5,000 on race days. They're not against more horseracing. Actually that's what they should be for. It's the arena and hotel they're against.

FWIW, I am not against an arena at Belmont. Though I am still skeptical about an arena happening for a few reasons.

Not being a jerk.....

But you have stated that people you know are against it, but have jobs so they can't speak out......Massive cop out. If it's so important, then they can find a way. You also keep stating that 5K people show up to belmont and no one knows. So does double that make a massive difference? From someone that goes there.....I'm actually shocked that someone so knowledgeable of the area doesnt see that on weekends.

What reasons? You have not provided any information, in anyway, that a lawsuit would hold it up. Oak View/Arena Alliance deals with this negative feedback on every project. Any complaint/serving would be brought to the courts quickly....and dismissed. Perhaps the FP/ Elmont folks were short sighted when they turned down other proposals in the past. Even in the courts, you can't keep crying wolf. Once the environmental survey begins, good luck finding a judge...especially since this is state mandated, to overturn. Good luck finding someone who spent 40 years getting to where they are to destroy their careers.

Again, I don't mean to be a jerk, but the ignorance of what Malkin/Ledecky did, what Cuomo has done is sad. While they don't want the Arena, do you think the property tax payers of Floral Park want their village taxes skyrocketing, to pay for legal fees to fight this? You know what would have helped? A constitutional convention. But everyone with a pension disagreed. Floral Park votes to a 98% against it. You reap what you sow. Sorry!

You say you're not against, but most of your posts (prior) are anti belmont. Claiming that "people you know are against it." Great. Perhaps they can all go to the community meeting next weekend.......if they're not working

Not trying to be a d***, but it is tough to read people throwing cold water on something who really don't have any true insight on the process. It's a development. It takes time, and words mean nothing. State mandated developments do though

 

[Bones45]

Apparently the players don't consider the Barclays ice the worst in the league. Improvement!

NHLPA Player Poll 2017-18

Youd have to expect that an arena in the tropics and desert would have trouble with maintaining ice. So that makes Barclays #1 shit ice in the league of you remove those two. Shocking.

Wonder how the ice is in Vegas...

 

[PK Cronin]

Youd have to expect that an arena in the tropics and desert would have trouble with maintaining ice. So that makes Barclays #1 **** ice in the league of you remove those two. Shocking.

Wonder how the ice is in Vegas...

And if you remove all the teams ahead of the Islanders in the standings, that'd make them #1 in the league standings!

 

[nycole]

Not being a jerk.....

But you have stated that people you know are against it, but have jobs so they can't speak out......Massive cop out. If it's so important, then they can find a way. You also keep stating that 5K people show up to belmont and no one knows. So does double that make a massive difference? From someone that goes there.....I'm actually shocked that someone so knowledgeable of the area doesnt see that on weekends.

Well yeah, people need jobs to pay their taxes and mortgage. Specifically well paying jobs, which tend to be located in the City.
My point was that traffic is hardly noticeable with crowds of 5,000. If people aren't complaining about the current traffic situation, why would they complain about it happening more often? Especially if they're under the impression this would mean Belmont doesn't need an arena. 5,000 spectators means about 2,000 cars, and everyone isn't coming and going at the same time.

What reasons? You have not provided any information, in anyway, that a lawsuit would hold it up. Oak View/Arena Alliance deals with this negative feedback on every project. Any complaint/serving would be brought to the courts quickly....and dismissed. Perhaps the FP/ Elmont folks were short sighted when they turned down other proposals in the past. Even in the courts, you can't keep crying wolf. Once the environmental survey begins, good luck finding a judge...especially since this is state mandated, to overturn. Good luck finding someone who spent 40 years getting to where they are to destroy their careers.

A state-issued RFP for development on state-owned land explicitly makes parameters. I know we like to think of Belmont Park as not owned by the state because it was originally owned by Belmont then NYRA, but the fact is there are people who believe the State can't just do what they want.

There's a "community organizer" named Tammy Williams who never ran for an elected office. She's not an attorney, but she is trying to make a name for herself. She takes "donations" to her cause. I'm not discounting some coalition gets attorney that wants to fight the State.

The taxes would be just a drop in the bucket.

You say you're not against, but most of your posts (prior) are anti belmont. Claiming that "people you know are against it." Great. Perhaps they can all go to the community meeting next weekend.......if they're not working

I said (and have in the past) that as a (former) resident, I'm for an arena. I also said I'm in favor of brining jobs to the community residents.

But as an Isles fan I'm extremely skeptical of the idea that income from the rest of the development is going to the Isles payroll. If the Isles can't sell tickets and suites, why would Malkin take profit from the rest of the development and spend it on the Isles instead of other profitable business ventures? I would feel the same way whether this happened in Willets Point, Uniondale, or anywhere else.

I've said I think Brooklyn and Queens is the best place for them in today's sports economics, being close as possible to a corporate base. But that requires competent marketing.

 

[The Lighthouse]

A state-issued RFP for development on state-owned land explicitly makes parameters. I know we like to think of Belmont Park as not owned by the state because it was originally owned by Belmont then NYRA, but the fact is there are people who believe the State can't just do what they want.

There's a "community organizer" named Tammy Williams who never ran for an elected office. She's not an attorney, but she is trying to make a name for herself. She takes "donations" to her cause. I'm not discounting some coalition gets attorney that wants to fight the State.

The State certainly can't just do what it wants, and I'm sure that the project must adhere to the parameters in the RFP, however, the court is not going to issue a preliminary injunction based on a proposed plan - it will only do so once there is certainty that the State is about to violate some statute or regulation, and the party commencing the action demonstrates that an injunction is necessary.

 

[Lame Lambert]

And if you remove all the teams ahead of the Islanders in the standings, that'd make them #1 in the league standings!

Don't get Snow excited

 

[periferal]

Apparently the players don't consider the Barclays ice the worst in the league. Improvement!

NHLPA Player Poll 2017-18

Yay?

 

[Steve55]

I think the path to an awesome NHL structure is relocating the Florida Panthers to Quebec, and the Arizona Coyotes to Houston. This plus the expansion to Seattle gives you 32 teams covering all major North American media markets, and aligns nicely for having 4 team divisions within each conference. I could even give you the divisions right now, but I don’t want to derail.

Bottom line though, the league should keep the Islanders because the rivalry alone with the Rangers itself is worth keeping. There’s a good fan base here and once competent management starts making smart hockey decisions, the contingent will grow.

Agreed on both counts. Even though Florida is playing well, a Montreal-Quebec rivalry would dwarf Sunrise-Tampa rivarly. As far as Arizona goes, Dallas-Houston conflict would be great for the NHL, just likes Isles-Rangers.

 

[Steve55]

https://libn.com/2018/03/08/lia-launches-2018-priorities/

'By: Adina Genn March 8, 2018

Redeveloping the Nassau Hub, reinstating federal income tax deductions for state and local taxes and supporting a 2 percent cap on state spending are among the top priorities in 2018 for the Long Island Association, the region’s largest business group...

Additional top priorities for the LIA include:...

• Supporting Belmont Park’s redevelopment, including the expansion of the LIRR station for the New York Islanders’ proposed new arena, while advocating for the team to play home games at the Nassau Coliseum until the new arena is built, and for relocating and combining all downstate racing at Belmont Park...'