Brock's Top 50 Prospects

[Vagrant]

I dont know what Ryan Suter games you have watched but he simply put, controls the play

I think the problem with Suter, much like many defenseman out there, is that it's hard to really appreciate what he does on the ice with limited viewings.

Not to be contrary, but don't these statements contradict one another? If he dominates the game and controls the play, how is it hard to appreciate what he does with limited viewings? If he was really that much of a standout, then why isn't it apparent to anybody who happens to catch even one of his games?

 

[tomerez]

Great call on Carter..

I myself am not so high on guys like Richards and Fehr, but the rest of the list I love. Where would you see Tambellini fall? I like him above a few guys on your list, however I don't think he'd be on my top 50, maybe he could crack 60, most definitely 75. What do you think?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I'm not sure how anyone can claim Suter's game won't translate to the NHL. He does everything well, and his offensive game is just now blossiming. He does play a pretty understated style, but that doesn't take away from the fact he's so effective. Adam Foote is a nice comparison.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Brock....just wondering what type of season and development would Zajac need to jump into the top 50. I figure he is around 70 or 80 on my list right now but he is one prospect on the rise.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Of all the prospects you have listed that you dislike, and the ones you like, one constant is there stats...If they don't have breathe taking numbers (Suter) They must not be close to a guy like Meszaro's who has the numbers

Yeah, you got me there.

I'm really someone who goes by stats all the time. I swear by them. I wish I could have imaginary friends to give me imaginary tapes but since I can't, I look at a few numbers and make stuff up.

I'd tell you the constants about me and the constants about you but I won't, because the simple truth would be considered a personal attack.

 

[Diaboli]

Dont really understand this. He's arguably not even a top 5 Finnish prospect right now, much less a top 20 prospect leaguewide.

Why not?

 

[BuppY]

good list.. but I think Colaiacovo should be in the top 50.

 

[Brock]

We definitely don't see eye to eye on Suter then. Hell I contemplated putting him ahead of Fleury at number 4, I like him that much. Everytime I see him play, he impresses me even more as a player. I completely disagree on his potential, as I see the sky as the limit for him. He's so great defensively, and as Rapid Ranger said, his offense game is just starting to blossom, at no sacrifice of his defensive play.

I guess we shall see in the future.

 

[Brock]

Great call on Carter..

I myself am not so high on guys like Richards and Fehr, but the rest of the list I love. Where would you see Tambellini fall? I like him above a few guys on your list, however I don't think he'd be on my top 50, maybe he could crack 60, most definitely 75. What do you think?

I'm really not a huge fan of Tambellini. I think he's a good prospect, but I personally wouldn't consider him for my top 50. For my top 100, yes definitely. If i were to guess, I'd say he'd probably fall in the backend of my top 100.

 

[hockeyfan125]

Props to including Kesler, but I would have him higher. He has gained 20 lbs, and his skating is still as great as ever. He is producing great in the AHL, while being a shutdown center. He is around 6'2'', 215 now, which is very good size. Ok, enough of my homer rant.

 

[Brock]

Brock....just wondering what type of season and development would Zajac need to jump into the top 50. I figure he is around 70 or 80 on my list right now but he is one prospect on the rise.

I think that if he continues to play as strong as he has so far this season, and goes into the following College season riding that high and improves upon his numbers again, he'll definitely begin to garner some serious top 50 talk. He's definitely got serious offensive NHL potential. I think it's a little early to throw him into a top 50 list however. Like I've mentioned NHL readyness is a big factor in my list. Zajac really just needs the next NHL season to come, and the graduation of probably around a third of these guys to the NHL.

The prospect world has stalled because of this lockout. This prospect crop is so strong simply because the progression to the NHL isn't available at this moment. So guys like Zajac, or Meszaros, etc, who are having excellent post draft seasons, can begin to catch some limelight.

 

[Brock]

Andrew Ladd didn't even make the "Just Missed" List! Brock, please tell me that was simply an oversight on your part. If not, he has to be the most underrated 4th overall selection in history. Not that he's going to rock the world or anything, but he has pretty acheivable upside considering what type of player he is predicted to round out to.

Well I'd say Blake Wheeler has even higher upside, and he also didn't make my list. Would that make him the most underrated 5th overall selection in history?

Im simply going to be honest and tell you that I don't like Andrew Ladd at all. I was never impressed with him last year when I saw him play (couple WHL games on tv, prospects game) and I've been even less impressed this year. He's incredibly inconsistent physically, and I just don't see the upside offensively in him. His hands just don't impress me. When the speed of the game increases and the skill level must rise up, he just doesn't seem to keep up. I think he should be able to make the NHL as a back liner, but I'm just not a fan. His play in the WJC's thus far isn't changing my mind at all either, if anything its making me dislike him anymore.

So I'd say he's the most overrated 4th overall selection in history.

But that's just my opinion of him, however many on this board seem to share that opinion. So maybe I'm not crazy

 

[Brock]

Why not?

I Agree, why not?

And I'm definitely not going to be someone who rags on Jussi Jokinen, as I have him in a sim league, so I keep a close eye on him.

I see Koivu as having more potential though, and now that hes finally made the trek to North America, he's playing quite well. 13 points in 16 games, and he's really starting to heat up. He was chosen so high for a reason, Minnesota's scouts have certainly done a great job of building that team from the ground out IMO.

 

[Brock]

I agree , but don't forget that Brown is playing in one of the best team in the AHL.Kostitsyn barely received 10 minutes of icetime in his first 30 games,Don't forget that even Ward and Pleks have difficulties to score with Hamilton.

I didn't know your list was based on NHL readiness.It's way too early to say that He isn't good and that He'll be a bust.

In what league did He play last year ? Cska 2 ? Cska ?

He never had to play defensive or to play physical before.The guy is learning to play defence and how to play a decent physical game this year.It's very hard for him.He don't know how to talk english.He can't speak to his teammates.We're expecting too much from him.Do you want a player who can't speak english to support all the team on his shoulders ? Not me.

Dustin Brown was already known to be a PF who can play physical.So , that's why He's so comfortable and playing with confidence.

Some europeans need more then a year to produce in the AHL.He's finally getting a lot of icetime but his linemeate Ward can't even score a goal.

Jarvis is trying to learn him the N-A of hockey very slowly.I saw him last week and He really impressed me.He was great along the boards and He wasn't bad defensively.He was solid on his skates and He was playing on the first line but He didn't had a single scoring chance.The bulldogs are really struggling.

Anyways , imo We'll have to wait atleast a full year in his case.I'd wait a year or two before saying that He can't produce at the AHL level.

I guess , We'll see in the years to come.


Now , He was a victim of the hype imo.He has been overhyped too much by Redline.Timmins even said He was NHL ready but We all know that habs fans are overhyping their prospects often.It's no big deal.

Oh there is no doubt that Kostitsyn is going through a serious learning curve. But it's whether he survives that learning curve, that makes him a legitimate top 50 prospect. He's got the talent, he's just got to put it together. And some player's can't. There are many examples, no need for me to list them.

And like I said, the talent pool is so strong right now for prospects because of this lockout, so it's a tough list to crack. Andrei will get his time in the future.

Oh, and also on Brown, he actually wasn't a huge power forward in his OHL days. I watched Brown come up basically, and he's become a much more rounded player in the NHL. He always had the potential to become that type of Deadmarsh attacker, but he could never find in it himself to become that player consistently. He'd have his sparks where he'd play with serious intensity, especially that one stretch in the Mem cup playoffs a couple years ago. He would always drive hard to the net though, but he was more of a power winger, someone in the Glen Murray mold (was the common comparison floating around during his draft eligibility). He's progressed beyond belief in the pros so far though. Everything is coming together for him and he's a big time prospect. It's amazing how well these 2003 OHL selections have progressed since their selections, guys like Brown and Carter and Stewart and Burns and Richards all taking serious steps forward and none back. Great to see.

 

[Hossa]

Well I'd say Blake Wheeler has even higher upside, and he also didn't make my list. Would that make him the most underrated 5th overall selection in history?

Im simply going to be honest and tell you that I don't like Andrew Ladd at all. I was never impressed with him last year when I saw him play (couple WHL games on tv, prospects game) and I've been even less impressed this year. He's incredibly inconsistent physically, and I just don't see the upside offensively in him. His hands just don't impress me. When the speed of the game increases and the skill level must rise up, he just doesn't seem to keep up. I think he should be able to make the NHL as a back liner, but I'm just not a fan. His play in the WJC's thus far isn't changing my mind at all either, if anything its making me dislike him anymore.

So I'd say he's the most overrated 4th overall selection in history.

But that's just my opinion of him, however many on this board seem to share that opinion. So maybe I'm not crazy

I think the problem for Ladd is that he came out of nowhere last year, and while some people jumped on the bandwagon, the Hurricanes scouting staff obviously being among them. This year though, his production has dropped. In the WHL, he's simply not putting up the points, and it's not as though he doesn't have talented players around him. And the reality is that it's hard to get all excited about a guy who is doing nothing to disprove that last year he overachieved.

His performance with the Canadian team certainly compounds this point, as he is the worst player on the team and for my money had no place being on the squad. He isn't a dominating physical presence, he is not a great skater, his hands are nothing special, he has a good but anything but spectacular shot...and my problem with him is that he looks stiff out there. I don't see him having the talent to be a scoring line player, and I don't think he's got the make-up of a grinder. Now, I'll join Brock in admitting I've never been impressed with Ladd. I said before the draft I'd rather have several guys, namely Drew Stafford, over Ladd...not to say Stafford, who was perhaps the best US forward in their game against Russia, is top 50 at this point either.

Ladd has to prove something. He has to shut up the doubters because right now, I think he's playing into their hands. I'm a doubter of Ladd, Brock seems to be too, and at this point he's doing nothing to change my mind.

 

[Winston Wolf]

Nice list, no complaints from me. Quick question, would Niittymaki or Ruzicka be on your top 100 list, and if so, whereabouts would they be? Thanks.

 

[AgentNaslund*]

Keith Ballard over Coliacovo and Koltsov? You should see all 3 of their AHL numbers. Ballard is having a horrible season.

 

[X-SHARKIE]

Yeah, you got me there.

I'm really someone who goes by stats all the time. I swear by them. I wish I could have imaginary friends to give me imaginary tapes but since I can't, I look at a few numbers and make stuff up.

I'd tell you the constants about me and the constants about you but I won't, because the simple truth would be considered a personal attack.

You just danced around my point on you with no base to back it up, instead you come back and challenge me.....again..

If you want to talk about me, just ask Evasuk, Montreal, IAMCANADIAN,CharliesGirl,JNRhockeyguru, All have helped me out recently with games on tape. I never have said that I see everyone, not even close, but I do my fair share to see the guys I want to see.

 

[neelynugs]

i like the list...but think mark stuart and that lundqvist fellow are rated too high

 

[usiel]

No Semin?

 

[Chaos]

Why not?

He has definately improved his stock with his play in the AHL this year, but I would still be hesitant to put him in my top 30, but thats just me. His play in Finland after being drafted wasn't all that impressive, although it was decent(based on his numbers). But I'm probably the 2nd biggest Jussi Jokinen fan on this board(GLUhipfan being #1), so Im a bit biased against Koivu in this type of situation .

 

[Chaos]

And I'm definitely not going to be someone who rags on Jussi Jokinen, as I have him in a sim league, so I keep a close eye on him.

Speaking of him, after 2 consecutive really good seasons in a mens league, 2 good WJC's(when he was eligible), and now leading 2 straight international tournaments(filled with NHL stars) in scoring, what else does he have to do to even get a mention in the top 50?

 

[Marshall]

No Semin?

Brock said the cutoff was 40 games or so in the NHL, which excludes Semin.

 

[Meat Wave]

Suter is the new Komisarek.

Not that it's a bad thing anyways...

 

[Diaboli]

He has definately improved his stock with his play in the AHL this year, but I would still be hesitant to put him in my top 30, but thats just me. His play in Finland after being drafted wasn't all that impressive, although it was decent(based on his numbers). But I'm probably the 2nd biggest Jussi Jokinen fan on this board(GLUhipfan being #1), so Im a bit biased against Koivu in this type of situation .

Yes, that's the problem. You can only go by stats. In 2001-2002, Koivu played in the fourth line for TPS in a defensive role (something J. Jokinen will never be able to do) and scored 3+4=7 in 48 games.

The next year he played in the 2nd and 3rd line (about 50-50) in the worst TPS team in 20 years. They finished 8th that season. He also missed that years WJC's due to a very bad infection in his ankle. It took almost 5 months for him to get back in to the rink. Can't be true to oneself, if you don't admit, that it would take time for anyone to be in his best form after a long injury like that.

Last year was his first as 1st line center. Though his statistics weren't mind blowing, his play was. He created a ton of scoring chances for his linemates, who just somehow seemed to always find the boards instead of the net. Also remember, that M. Koivu played for team Finland in WC and was pretty good there.

As for Jussi Jokinen, well anyone who sees this kid play, can't miss to see his potential as sniper. His vision is better than average, and he is willing to do some dirtywork too. But that's all. You talk about his success in this years European tour. He's done great. Statistically. Hasn't really always been as good as the stats show. They work both ways you know, statistics I mean. But that's just another way of showing how good he is. Won't do anything in the first 50 minutes, and then comes from nowhere and decides the game for his team.

Mikko just can do more than Jussi. That's no knock on Jussi IMO.

EDIT: The European tour IS NOT filled with NHL-stars. Only game where The Finns have played against more than a few checking-line players from NHL, was the game against Russia in Rosno Cup. Actually the European tour isn't really an important tournament. We've won it 6 times in a row now, and even we don't give it much credit here. I think that'll give you some idea of its respect.