Brian Dumoulin

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I personally don't think Dumoulin has been horrendously bad this year like the rest of the forum. I think playing with Letang is not best for his talents. He's a middle-pairing dman. I think we just need better defenders around him.
 
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NMK11

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Hes a good complementary piece in any top 4. He is also replaceable. If he can be moved for the upgrades we need Id at least explore it, but since hes never going to put up points hes likely not got a lot of trade value and hence worth more to us than others.
 
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Tom Hanks

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I wouldn’t mind changing him with a better skater who can put up a few more points. We’d lose a bit of defense but gain more transition which works for us.

We need to fix the forwards first which will improve how the D functions. I’m also happy to keep him too. He does well in the playoffs. He was a bit down last season but performed better when needed.
 

Jacob

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I wouldn’t mind changing him with a better skater who can put up a few more points. We’d lose a bit of defense but gain more transition which works for us.

We need to fix the forwards first which will improve how the D functions. I’m also happy to keep him too. He does well in the playoffs. He was a bit down last season but performed better when needed.
This is true. His regular season last year was not very good either IMO.

I f***ing hate the guy but what can you do? I don’t doubt a youngish guy with 2 Cup rings has plenty of value and is very movable, but if we’re going to trade him we need a D coming back. Why would anyone else do that? It’d have to be a 1-for-1 swap for a player similar in age, cap hit, and current struggles, only unlike Dumo they won’t be playoff tested. We’re better off just hanging onto him.
 

Tom Hanks

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This is true. His regular season last year was not very good either IMO.

I ****ing hate the guy but what can you do? I don’t doubt a youngish guy with 2 Cup rings has plenty of value and is very movable, but if we’re going to trade him we need a D coming back. Why would anyone else do that? It’d have to be a 1-for-1 swap for a player similar in age, cap hit, and current struggles, only unlike Dumo they won’t be playoff tested. We’re better off just hanging onto him.

We’d have to trade him for a forward and move a forward to replace him I’d imagine and it’d be more of an off season thing. JR has to be pretty busy right now.
 

larueskee

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I never would have spent the money on him or the term for what his play looked like. That goes for Maata too. But hey I would have rather of kept Daly for 2, extended Cole for 3, signed Schultz for what he got and let the chips and the money fall on other players and options.
 
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Ogrezilla

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I never would have spent the money on him or the term for what his play looked like. That goes for Maata too. But hey I would have rather of kept Daly for 2, extended Cole for 3, signed Schultz for what he got and let the chips and the money fall on other players and options.
man if you think Dumo and Maatta have been bad, you'd have really hated Daley this year.
 

Rodgerwilco

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I can't believe the analysis of Dumoulin here. He's been one of our steadiest players in a very unsteady season. The entire team, forwards and defense alike, have been playing like trash defensively. Maatta used to be the whipping boy, but it seems it's shifted to Dumoulin now.

Dumoulin making 4.1m (cost-controlled through 2023) is an incredible deal, especially when you consider that by 2020 the cap could be upwards of $10M higher than what it is now. Shut-down style defensemen don't exactly grow on trees.
 

Gurglesons

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I can't believe the analysis of Dumoulin here. He's been one of our steadiest players in a very unsteady season. The entire team, forwards and defense alike, have been playing like trash defensively. Maatta used to be the whipping boy, but it seems it's shifted to Dumoulin now.

Dumoulin making 4.1m (cost-controlled through 2023) is an incredible deal, especially when you consider that by 2020 the cap could be upwards of $10M higher than what it is now. Shut-down style defensemen don't exactly grow on trees.

Yes, they do. Dumo has shown in the past, he isn’t just a shutdown guy, but the term was always awkward for me on this deal.
 

Rodgerwilco

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Yes, they do. Dumo has shown in the past, he isn’t just a shutdown guy, but the term was always awkward for me on this deal.

Are you saying "yes, they do", in response to me saying that shut-down defensemen don't grown on trees?

I certainly don't think Dumo deserves all of the s*** that he's catching in this thread. Penguins fans always need a whipping boy, whether it's Fleury, Letang, Maatta, or ,now, Dumoulin.
 

Gurglesons

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Are you saying "yes, they do", in response to me saying that shut-down defensemen don't grown on trees?

I certainly don't think Dumo deserves all of the s*** that he's catching in this thread. Penguins fans always need a whipping boy, whether it's Fleury, Letang, Maatta, or ,now, Dumoulin.

Yes, shutdown defensemen should not get six year deals. They are probably the easiest position to acquire.
 

larueskee

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man if you think Dumo and Maatta have been bad, you'd have really hated Daley this year.
Daly plays for Red Wings. Have you seen them play this year? Daly only cost 3 million per year, for 2 years and Dumo is just another guy getting 4.1 for 6 years!? That deal made no sense at all for a team with cap restrictions. Maata's deal too was just as bad.
 

Ogrezilla

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Daly plays for Red Wings. Have you seen them play this year? Daly only cost 3 million per year, for 2 years and Dumo is just another guy getting 4.1 for 6 years!? That deal made no sense at all for a team with cap restrictions. Maata's deal too was just as bad.
Thanks for listing their contracts. Very informative. I'm convinced.
 
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Rodgerwilco

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Yes, shutdown defensemen should not get six year deals. They are probably the easiest position to acquire.
That doesn't guarantee good quality though. Dumo is good, and as I mentioned before, the cap could plausibly be up to 82M by next season. When the cap is 85+ in 2020 Dumoulin's 4M contract is going to be an absolute steal. Even as trade bait later in the contract term it's still team-friendly.
 

UnderratedBrooks44

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Is anyone actually a "shutdown" defenseman? I don't think they actually exist. I don't mind Dumoulin of course. He's a solid player. I don't think I'd ever get 100% attached to him though.
 

molon labe

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Is anyone actually a "shutdown" defenseman? I don't think they actually exist. I don't mind Dumoulin of course. He's a solid player. I don't think I'd ever get 100% attached to him though.

I'd say Hedmen & Doughty could be considered shut down defensemen. Doughty is a bit of a jack of all trades though - imo he's bar none the best defensemen in the league. Karlsson gets brought up because he skates fancy, makes awesome passes, and racks up points - but I'd take Doughty any day of the weke.
 

larueskee

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Is anyone actually a "shutdown" defenseman? I don't think they actually exist. I don't mind Dumoulin of course. He's a solid player. I don't think I'd ever get 100% attached to him though.
A shutdown d man is code for a guy who is better suited to just play back and not take any forays into the offensive zone.
 

Pens x

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We’d have to trade him for a forward and move a forward to replace him I’d imagine and it’d be more of an off season thing. JR has to be pretty busy right now.
Maybe Jimmy should have been busier during the off-season instead of starting to address these issues now?

Just a thought...
 

molon labe

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Maybe Jimmy should have been busier during the off-season instead of starting to address these issues now?

Just a thought...

That's what you genuinely think is going on?

I'd moreso go with GMJR has been working dilligently towards addressing potential holes in this team but does not want to A) Overpay guys, or B) get someone just to get someone - perhaps the players who have been available have not been worthwhile. C) MOST teams give their guys the first 2-3 months of the season before considering trading them...it's not like this board was blowing up in August/September with trades.
 

Extra Texture

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Daly plays for Red Wings. Have you seen them play this year? Daly only cost 3 million per year, for 2 years and Dumo is just another guy getting 4.1 for 6 years!? That deal made no sense at all for a team with cap restrictions. Maata's deal too was just as bad.

So you're solution would have been to let the two guys in their early 20s walk and sign the guy who is 33?

I like Daley and all, but that's terrible. Are we just gonna ignore the fact that Maatta looked a whole lot better early this season than he did the past two years?

Dumo will be fine, ultimately. He's a steady (if unimpressive) D man, but he was clearly very good the last two years and stepped up in a D corps without 58. I'm not just gonna throw that out because the whole team looks like trash and he is no exception.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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I think it's admirable that Dumoulin has gotten through nearly half this season as Letang's partner without murdering him in his sleep. They should melt down Mario's statue and use it to make one for Dumo based on that alone.
 

pistolpete11

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Apr 27, 2013
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So you're solution would have been to let the two guys in their early 20s walk and sign the guy who is 33?

I like Daley and all, but that's terrible. Are we just gonna ignore the fact that Maatta looked a whole lot better early this season than he did the past two years?

Dumo will be fine, ultimately. He's a steady (if unimpressive) D man, but he was clearly very good the last two years and stepped up in a D corps without 58. I'm not just gonna throw that out because the whole team looks like trash and he is no exception.
Yeah, if there is a case for signing Daley, it should be instead of Hunwick, not Dumo or Maatta.
 

Speaking Moistly

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I think it's admirable that Dumoulin has gotten through nearly half this season as Letang's partner without murdering him in his sleep. They should melt down Mario's statue and use it to make one for Dumo based on that alone.

I really do wonder if exposing any one D to so much of Letang has been the right call. Dumoulin is just doing what so many on this team have been doing but so much of this version of Letang has to be taxing.
 
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Extra Texture

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That's what you genuinely think is going on?

Just as a rule, his only thought as to "what is going on with the pens" is that Rutherford is screwing/has screwed them up. Forget the two cups, their current problems (and really any problems they ever have) are just the old man doing too much/not enough and not signing people/signing people to bad contracts.
Yeah, if there is a case for signing Daley, it should be instead of Hunwick, not Dumo or Maatta.

Agreed. If Daley would have taken the cap aav that Hunwick got, I would have rather just kept him. He was up and down the second year, but no doubt he fit the puck possession mantra of the team like a glove. I'm sure they made him an offer, but maybe 3 years was too rich. Or north of 3M was too rich. I dont blame either party there, Daley deserved to get paid well and we couldnt quite do that.

Keep Daley and move Dumo/Olli though? Nah
 

molon labe

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Agreed. If Daley would have taken the cap aav that Hunwick got, I would have rather just kept him. He was up and down the second year, but no doubt he fit the puck possession mantra of the team like a glove. I'm sure they made him an offer, but maybe 3 years was too rich. Or north of 3M was too rich. I dont blame either party there, Daley deserved to get paid well and we couldnt quite do that.

Keep Daley and move Dumo/Olli though? Nah

I always figured Daley would leave. He seemed genuinely (albeit slightly) saddened about his departure from Chicago because he loved the city. Just seems like a guy who would rather play in a place like Chicago, NY, Detroit atmosphere. Didn't take long for him to depart (think he was the first to leave right?)... Sucked losing him because he was serviceable in our system, but never really had faith he would re sign anyway.
 

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