Brian Burke steps down.

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
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The Flames draft and developmental history is complicated. There's a lot more to it than just Button and his scouting ability. Money played a huge role but so too did the GM of day.

In the eighties, the Flames scouting staff was one of the best not just because they had excellent people in place, but also because they actually had the resources to to go out and find talent. There's a story out there that I can't be bothered to find about Flames scouts flying first class around the world. But that all changed in the 90's when the dollar fell and ownership made significant cuts everywhere.

When I first started in Calgary in ’97, in my first year they were having a season-ticket drive to keep the Flames in Calgary,” says Tod Button, the Flames’ director of amateur scouting. “A few years later when I was doing budgets for the Flames, we were budgeting for the U.S. (exchange) at $1.55, so we made a conscious effort to try and keep our scouts in Canada just because of the dollar.”

With a lopsided exchange rate leaving the prospect of hiring a full-time U.S. scout impractical, the Flames stuck to limited coverage of the American leagues. When the exchange rate shifted in their favour in the late-2000’s, the door opened for change.

“It’s hard to cover the world without the proper resources,” Button says. “So the biggest thing for me that changed is the dollar evened out and our ownership saw the need for a full-time scout in the United States.

“The first scout we added full-time was Rob Pulford — Rob was instrumental in (drafting) Johnny Gaudreau.”

Is it really a surprise that the Flames drafting and development fell off a cliff the moment ownership stopped spending?

When you move into the cap era, the purses slowly opened up but now the problem was different. It was a glacially slow GM who didn't understand that the rules changes as the result of the lockout necessitated speed and skill, not just intangibles, grit and leadership. It's utterly disingenuous to fault Button for a GM who liked to make the first round selection each year based on his own scouting abilities. Or for a GM who prioritized outdated abilities. Or for an ownership's reluctance to spend limiting scouts to Canada or major tournaments. And so on and so forth.

And while Sutter was a relic, it's not like ownership opened the flood gates to spend immediately post full season lockout. Sutter had to convince them to invest in a farm team again, to hire more scouts, to bring in more support staff, etc,. All of that took time (and continued with Feaster and Burke and Treliving) and it's something he deserves credit for, albeit slightly mitigated by the fact he went full on nepotism with his hires (which in itself can be countered with he was only hiring people he trusted - see, it's complicated).

So, it's definitely fair to say the scouting system is still flawed. There are organizations that do a lot more with a lot less (e.g. Ducks, Sabres, Senators) in that regard. And the developmental system is still a work in progress. But it's really not as simple as saying the last 20 years of by and large, gross ineptitude at almost every level, is entirely the fault of one single individual. Can't even fully blame ownership for not spending when the fan base disappeared and the undeniable competitive imbalance of the league at the time. At the end of the day, it's simply not a coincidence that the opening of the purse strings resulted in a marked improvement in the organizations drafting ability.
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
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So Button said he only has money to scout in Canada....where are the good Canadian players? Poirrer? Klimchuk, Wotherspoon, Hunter Smith ?etc....

Bunch of hogwash excuses....Button wouldnt know a good prospect if it hits him on the face.

So why am I blaming Button? Isnt he the chief of scouting? And all the other guys were fired and long gone lol
 
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Fig

Absolute Horse Shirt
Dec 15, 2014
12,957
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Yeah for the life of me I don’t know why we took Granlund over Kuch. I mean, I know they thought he was gonna fall, but if you like a guy, just take him. That’s a risky game that really backfired.

I maybe understand the thinking if we didn't draft Granlund. But two undersized guys, shouldn't you swing for the fences? I think its also fair that Kucherov probably doesn't develop as well if not in Tampa (I believe he models part of his game based on tutelage from MSL) and the Russian factor somehow is still a thing, but honestly, he's easily still more value than what TSpoon is right now on the roster and as trade bait.

You may have a point except the guy has been around for 20 yrs, surviving numerous GMs and the Flames have been at the bottom of the league for most of his tenure. GMs may have overrided some picks but they still pick from his list, it's not like the GM scout the players themselves or pick from the tabloids

BTW, the fans always get excited with the new picks...eventually in the Flames case they turned into busts...not too long ago people were wetting their pants on Poirrer, Klimchuck, Wotherspoon, Seiloff....

I don't fully get what you're trying to say. I feel like we're actually sorta arguing the same thing, but caught on a weird semantic... but I might be wrong as it's been a tiring morning and coffee isn't kicking in correctly. Someone misuses his list and he still have to take responsibility for it? That's stupid. That's like someone driving into a pole then saying it was the cars fault for over/under steer while he was doing donuts. Sure, it's his "list", but the moment you have a GM start sorting based on certain criteria, it's no longer on him as the outcome is unpredictable. Let's just take the "Burke draft" resorting that list to look at goalies or dmen or players completely changes each round. That's how you end up with guys like Hunter Smith and Brandon Hickey over a Brayden Point in 2014. Hunter Smith I still don't fully get (lulz truculence?), but Hickey, I maybe understand because in 2015 we added 3 dmen to the org with all our picks in the first two rounds (Dougie, Andersson and Kylington). There may still have been a mandate to draft based on need rather than BPA.

I'd guess the mandates had lists sorted like:

Sutter: Big, strong, skating
Feaster: Skill, skating (not attitude)
Burke: Size, attitude
Treliving: Skill, attitude, skating + BPA?

Button has historically done reasonably well in the later rounds under Sutter, Feaster and a few other guys where he was able to look slightly beyond the sorted list and just target good players he think would be good for the organization to draft. More of what I am seeing from Treliving is starting to look like a combination of BPA and need. I at first was surprised that we took Valimaki over Liljegren, but seeing our dcore now, we need quality LD more than RD. There seems to be much more coordination with the scouting and management now and I'm starting to pay more attention to later round picks much earlier than I used to. I don't think it's a coincidence, but I'm a little weirder on the nerdy stuff and big picture at times, so maybe it's just a weird thing I find interesting rather than an actual think that will predict success.

But in all seriousness, it seems like teams lists are evolving. There's some serious talent dropping into the second round and it's not as big of a crap shoot IMO than it used to be 5-6+ years ago. There's also a reason why those lists are often secret as it involves a bit of a team's strategy. Otherwise, teams would all draft based on public lists, rather than on occasion we see a guy drafted and go, "Wait, who is that guy?"
 

Ace Rimmer

Stoke me a clipper.
So Button said he only has money to scout in Canada....where are the good Canadian players? Poirrer? Klimchuk, Wotherspoon, Hunter Smith ?etc....

Bunch of hogwash excuses....Button wouldnt know a good prospect if it hits him on the face.

So why am I blaming Button? Isnt he the chief of scouting? And all the other guys were fired and long gone lol
Did you actually read the post or the linked article?
 

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