Player Discussion Brendan Gaunce (Canucks will not extend qualifying offer - Dhaliwal)

[Hit the post]

Not sure you're going to break through with this crowd i.e the group that called Granlund a 20 goal scorer surely to repeat (given 19 minutes a night, PP time, and prime 0-zone starts).

heh, "20+ goal pace" equals "20 goal scorer".....his other hand must be injured now.

 

[MS]

Gaunce is first in the NHL in defensive zone starts, by a pretty wide margin.

Gaunce is absolutely eating those minutes up, his analytics are absolutely insane for someone yielding such deployment, his rel corsi is nearly even and his GF% is positive.

Sutter on the other hand is also playing in ridiculously tough deployment but is still getting double the offensive zone starts Gaunce is getting. In those minutes Sutter ranks last on the Canucks in RelCorsi.

In roughly the same amount of games Gaunce has scored 4 non empty net goals and Sutter has scored 3.

It is absolutely insane that the guy playing the toughest minutes in the NHL in terms of d-zone starts, playing on one of the worst teams in the NHL with a -30 goal differential as a team, has managed to generate a positive goal differential when he's on the ice.

He's just an extremely effective 3rd line player. Glad people are finally realizing this.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

He's slowly figuring it out. Likely a 15-15 player in his prime with a solid defensive presence. Ideal 3rd line center

 

[CanaFan]

Not a huge Gaunce fan by any means but it’ll be nice not to have to hear the bleeting of “but will Gaunce ever score a goal” every time a completely unrelated player is being criticized.

 

[Melvin]

Not a huge Gaunce fan by any means but it’ll be nice not to have to hear the bleeting of “but will Gaunce ever score a goal” every time a completely unrelated player is being criticized.

He has as many as Sutter now in the same amount of games.

Oh, those guys.

 

[m9]

Good stuff for Gaunce. You could see some of the offensive game turn on a bit starting in December - just flashes for a few shifts or a game here or there. The team needs a few positives the rest of the season and Gaunce penciling himself in as an effective two-way player would be something.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

He's slowly figuring it out. Likely a 15-15 player in his prime with a solid defensive presence. Ideal 3rd line center

Why do people keep calling Gaunce a center?

I mean, is it wrong to assume everyone here is watching most of the games?

 

[F A N]

But he was a Gillis pick. That made his likelihood of making the Canucks (under Benning) significantly lower than a walk on making it at Notre Dame fball.

What complete BS.

 

[m9]

Why do people keep calling Gaunce a center?

I mean, is it wrong to assume everyone here is watching most of the games?

It's funny, there have been a few occasions now when I've seen someone say it. I'm sure sometimes it's a mistake, but it's a clear tell to me who doesn't actually watch the games.

There was someone else here who I already figured didn't watch 90% of the games who insisted Gaunce was the regular 4C last year and Chaput played wing,

 

[Melvin]

It's funny, there have been a few occasions now when I've seen someone say it. I'm sure sometimes it's a mistake, but it's a clear tell to me who doesn't actually watch the games.

There was someone else here who I already figured didn't watch 90% of the games who insisted Gaunce was the regular 4C last year and Chaput played wing,

To be fair the poster never said he was playing centre, just that he could develop into a 3c. That could still happen. He has played centre in the past.

 

[Josepho]

I'm willing to bet you could throw Gaunce in the 3C spot right now and yield totally fine results.

He's a really effective hockey player.

 

[Wilch]

He's just an extremely effective 3rd line player. Glad people are finally realizing this.

The people who need to realize this have all stopped responding.

 

[Josepho]

Don't worry one of them will be back on his 7th account to strawman everyone soon.

 

[vanuck]

Next Malhotra.

Funny thing is that his current usage is pretty similar to how Manny was used by AV in 2011, albeit actually playing the center position. Gaunce doesn't seem to have played C much so far this year (I could be wrong, I've barely watched any games this season) but like Josepho said he's likely good enough at this point to anchor that shutdown line at center.

Other than regular PK deployment there's probably some room for him to grow as well offensively, and I think this is where Green could start giving him some PP2 time - the easy choice would be to throw him out as the net-front presence what with his size and strength.

 

[Addison Rae]

He’s playing the Marcus Kruger role right now, yielding good results in the hardest deployment in the league allows your offensive players to be put in the best possible position to succedd.

The Sedins clearly aren’t strength on strength players anymore and are playing some of the easiest minutes in the NHL because of Brendan Gaunce. Kruger allowed Kane and even Toews offensive zone starts to be incredibly high and helped make them better offensive players.

With Pettersson joining the team next season, Gaunce is going to be vital to his success as he will allow him to ease himself into the league with high offensive usage.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

What complete BS.

What's complete BS? Everything in general? Gaunce? Or the fact that everyone is jumping aboard the Gaunce bandwagon? I'm not sure what you mean friend?

 

[F A N]

What's complete BS? Everything in general? Gaunce? Or the fact that everyone is jumping aboard the Gaunce bandwagon? I'm not sure what you mean friend?

Umm... it's pretty self-explanatory. Did you not read what I quoted? Here it is again:

But he was a Gillis pick. That made his likelihood of making the Canucks (under Benning) significantly lower than a walk on making it at Notre Dame fball.

What I quoted was complete BS. Gaunce got 20 games with the Canucks in 2015-2016 when it was essentially garbage time and he's been with the Canucks ever since. The "Gillis draft picks" that Benning didn't seem to like aren't NHL players. And the "Gillis draft picks" that Benning seems to like are in fact NHL players and are playing for the Vancouver Canucks.

I mentioned this prior to the start of this season, according to Botchford, the Canucks were actually very high on Gaunce and thought of him as a potential 15 goal scorer. They also signed him to a 2 year one-way contract this past summer. All the evidence suggests that this current management group didn't care that Gaunce was a Gillis draft pick.

 

[PG Canuck]

He has as many as Sutter now in the same amount of games.

Oh, those guys.

Life moves fast.

 

[Peen]

Also a proud member of the Gaunce fan club since day 1. Went going through my old CDC posts from 4+ years ago:

Am I the only one who's happy with Gaunce and doesn't see him as a 'throw-in'?
I really liked the idea of adding a bottom six C. He seems like he can be a 20-35 point guy on the 3C just because of his IQ.
No doubt he'll be a fourth liner, but it's whether to see how high he can go.

I've said it before, saying it again - we have a good 3c in gaunce. He's a right place high iq type player. He won't ever score a flashy goal or put up points on the pp but hes a valuable asset imo. The other c's on team Canada are all highly skilled and can fly and I think that's why they were picked for the bigger ice.

#gaunceforgm

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Umm... it's pretty self-explanatory. Did you not read what I quoted? Here it is again:



What I quoted was complete BS. Gaunce got 20 games with the Canucks in 2015-2016 when it was essentially garbage time and he's been with the Canucks ever since. The "Gillis draft picks" that Benning didn't seem to like aren't NHL players. And the "Gillis draft picks" that Benning seems to like are in fact NHL players and are playing for the Vancouver Canucks.

I mentioned this prior to the start of this season, according to Botchford, the Canucks were actually very high on Gaunce and thought of him as a potential 15 goal scorer. They also signed him to a 2 year one-way contract this past summer. All the evidence suggests that this current management group didn't care that Gaunce was a Gillis draft pick.

I agree with that. Thanks for filling me in.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Also a proud member of the Gaunce fan club since day 1. Went going through my old CDC posts from 4+ years ago:





#gaunceforgm

Cool. I'm fairly recent a convert myself, but you know what they say about converts

 

[Shareefruck]

I still remember being super impressed that he seemed to always be one of the five strongest performers for three or four consecutive preseasons before he was finally given a chance. Found that pretty frustrating at the time, because I really liked his game. In hindsight, it probably worked out better for his development.

Umm... it's pretty self-explanatory. Did you not read what I quoted? Here it is again:



What I quoted was complete BS. Gaunce got 20 games with the Canucks in 2015-2016 when it was essentially garbage time and he's been with the Canucks ever since. The "Gillis draft picks" that Benning didn't seem to like aren't NHL players. And the "Gillis draft picks" that Benning seems to like are in fact NHL players and are playing for the Vancouver Canucks.

I mentioned this prior to the start of this season, according to Botchford, the Canucks were actually very high on Gaunce and thought of him as a potential 15 goal scorer. They also signed him to a 2 year one-way contract this past summer. All the evidence suggests that this current management group didn't care that Gaunce was a Gillis draft pick.

I think it's more a case that most Gillis players have been given conservative treatment (tough love until you show us you're worthy), whereas Benning players have been be showered with undeserved opportunity. There's definitely a difference in treatment, IMO, although I agree, it's not SO extreme that Gillis players are given NO chance just because they're Gillis players. It just seems worse than it is because of how Benning players are treated in comparison. In reality, you probably shouldn't treat ANY players the way that Benning players have being treated. It sure isn't doing Virtanen any favors, for instance.

 

[racerjoe]

Life moves fast.

If you don’t stop and look around once in awhile, you could miss it.

 

[F A N]

I think it's more a case that most Gillis players have been given conservative treatment (tough love until you show us you're worthy), whereas Benning players have been be showered with undeserved opportunity. There's definitely a difference in treatment, IMO, although I agree, it's not SO extreme that Gillis players are given NO chance just because they're Gillis players. It just seems worse than it is because of how Benning players are treated in comparison. In reality, you probably shouldn't treat ANY players the way that Benning players have being treated. It sure isn't doing Virtanen any favors, for instance.

I disagree. Care to give an example? It seems to me that Benning gave the head coach decision making authority for the most part. Ben Hutton didn't play in the AHL playoffs during the Calder Cup run. Yet he made the Canucks the next year. Benning reportedly did a lot of "convincing" for Willie to give Bo a chance. Has Virtanen been gifted opportunities? Not in terms of NHL ice time. I don't see Shinkaruk or Jordan Subban lighting it up in the NHL either.

 

[Shareefruck]

I disagree. Care to give an example? It seems to me that Benning gave the head coach decision making authority for the most part. Ben Hutton didn't play in the AHL playoffs during the Calder Cup run. Yet he made the Canucks the next year. Benning reportedly did a lot of "convincing" for Willie to give Bo a chance. Has Virtanen been gifted opportunities? Not in terms of NHL ice time. I don't see Shinkaruk or Jordan Subban lighting it up in the NHL either.

My impressions:

• Bo Horvat looked like a very polished and NHL ready forward from his pre-season performance, despite not putting up big numbers. Once he made the team, every increase in ice time that he received was hard earned, all the way up to what he is today.
• Ben Hutton didn't play in the AHL playoffs, but proceeded to make enough of an impression in pre-season that it would have been foolish not to give him a stint. He proceeded to look very comfortable and impressive in his rookie year, enough that it would have been foolish not to allow him to work through his sophomore slump.
• McCann made enough of an impression in the pre-season that it would have been foolish not to give him a stint. Virtanen, in my opinion, did not, despite a few flashes here and there, and had huge problems in his game that clearly needed to be ironed out in lower levels, though YMMV on that. Both made the NHL, and proceeded to have massive struggles and look out of place at this level. Neither were sent down, and I would argue that this harmed their development. McCann was traded after plenty of opportunity, but Virtanen continued to be forced into the lineup the following year, when he looked even worse. He wasn't given prime minutes, but it was stubborn and foolish enough that he was on the team at all.
• Vey, Prust, Clendenning, Gudbranson, Sutter, Granlund, and god knows who else were given far longer looks with prime minutes than their play ever warranted. Even after disaster years from some of them, they were given second and third chances.
• Biega has been a regular healthy scratch despite outplaying most of our fringe defensemen for years now.
• Kenins forced his way onto the team with his play, and then played well enough that year that it would have been foolish not to give him an extended look the following year. He struggled in pre-season and was never given a chance again.
• I agree that Subban did not deserve more than he got. I think Shinkaruk was as effective as Virtanen that preseason that Virtanen made the team, but again, YMMV, and I don't think he was treated too unfairly.

In most instances, Gillis acquisitions who didn't deserve to make the team/given much opportunity rightfully didn't make the team, and players who did deserve to make the team/given much opportunity needed to play at a level that couldn't be refused (I would argue still reasonable handling). Conversely, in most instances, Benning acquisitions who didn't deserve to make the team/given much opportunity were given ample opportunity to fail, and only stopped being given additional chances when it became painfully clear that it wasn't going anywhere, and Benning acquisitions who did deserve to make the team/given opportunity was given the benefit of the doubt and thrown out again even when they struggled.

I don't know how someone can look at decisions and opportunities relative to performance and not conclude that there was some bias in favor of his own acquisitions. I think you could feasibly argue that that's natural for GMs to do, and I don't think he aggressively and spitefully ruined Gillis acquisitions like some others do, though. The fact that they did or didn't do particularly well after the fact is irrelevant to noticing these patterns in decision making.

Whether you want to attribute this trend to management or coaching does not make a difference to me. I think the trend was definitely there, though.