Ducksforcup
Registered User
He just OOZES confidence. Such an exciting player to watch out there.
Think his time in the AHL is at an end.
Think his time in the AHL is at an end.
Player Discussion Brandon Montour
- Thread starter Ducks in a row
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Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
I don't really follow other teams that much so can't really say I have anybody in mind. I just think with all the D the Ducks have, Bob needs to sell high and Theo is a perfect guy to do that with. It really has nothing to do with his play last nite or in any other games this year. Waiting until a guy's value drops or your back is to the wall is bad business.
Sure, we could possibly stick him in the A next year but he's getting close to waiver eligible. Then what do you do? Make a trade because you have to? Force him into the lineup because you have to? I don't like either of those scenarios. And given he and Montour are both seen as offensive D, I think their similarity means you pick one and move the other. And we all know that Montour is the keeper of the two.
Unholy
kesbae
He definitely leaped over his competition as far as ratings or listings or however you want to call it.
He needs to be kept.
He needs to be kept.
- Jul 25, 2012
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All the hype bout Montour by our fan base(hadn't really got to see him and enjoy what he brings) but after seeing him more in these playoffs and paired with lindholm, hes very exciting player... he has a lil swagger to his play... lots of confidence, little edgy as far as talking and getting in peoples faces, surprisingly smart.. and if its not smarts his skill is just good enough to make smart plays without thinking.
Love this, too. I distinctly remember Lucic getting in his face a few nights ago, and he just laughed it off with a "I don't give a **** who you are" kind of look.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
The guy excelled at lacrosse. You gotta be a mean mofo to play that game. Not surprising he isn't easily intimidated.
The business of the team isn't to sell players, though - it's to ice the most competitive team that they can. Getting the most out of the trade market is a secondary concern. It's not like he's going to pull Drouin, they'd be asking for Montour or someone more polished.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
If there isn't a good deal there then don't move him. I've made it pretty clear I'm not trying to just get rid of him. I'm just trying to get ahead of the curve and be proactive about moving some D while their value is high. It is the team's business to try and have the right mix of players we can afford to keep. Everybody talks about Montour, Theo, Larsson, and now Mahura. Reality is that there will never be room for everybody, and not everybody will meet the current lofty expectations people have. I'd rather sell high than wait (like I mentioned above) until we are forced by waiver rules to either trade him or play him before he is ready. Right now he and Montour are two chips with good value. We all agree Montour is ahead of Theo so I just think you trade him while his value is high.
HansH
Unwelcome Spectre
Sure there is. It's a long shot, but if the Ducks are swept in the WCF, and the Gulls hang on to make it to the AHL WCF...
With where he is at in such a short time and where he projects to be, I don't see Ducks trading Montour unless the return is absolutely ridiculous. If you are going to sell high on someone, it would be Theodore. He had a great round 1 and outside of a bad play last night, really stepped up after getting walked around constantly in the first couple games against Edmonton. With the prospect of us resigning Fowler, Theo and Vats are likely the ones gone.
Sean Garrity
Quack Quack Quack!
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
You misunderstood. I've been saying we should move Theo while his value is high. Montour is the keeper.
Addressing a few things on here..
"It's NHL or trade for Theodore"
Correct. He's played over 100 AHL games in his career, he can't gain anything from being there. He's ready for NHL minutes and just needs to learn the game over a full season.
He also fits perfectly on the 3rd pairing with Bieksa for development purposes and for the team in general.
"Trade Theodore now while his value is highest"
Wrong. For 2 main reasons. His value will only go up after this season, he's shown the world he has flashes but has major flaws still in these playoffs, and is only playing 12 minutes a night on a team where another rookie is handling it fine. GMs know how to look past the nhl.com point totals. That is a terrible time to trade a blue chip defensive prospect. His value is certainly going to be higher this time next year. PS Bieksa is likely supplanting him in the lineup to make it worse.
Second, the ducks need him. At his ELC price tag, he offers efficient production on the 3rd pairing and beats anything free agency would have to offer. He literally helps the team win.
"Forward prospect that is worth Montour?"
At this point, I'd realistically say something like Nylander. But as a manager I wouldn't pull the trigger for just him, it's Marner or no deal. Where else are you finding Montour? I can draft Nylander in the top 5-10 every year. Defenders have too high of a failure rate, once you develop one and he's here to stay - his value skyrockets. And Montour's value has/is skyrocketing right now.
"It's NHL or trade for Theodore"
Correct. He's played over 100 AHL games in his career, he can't gain anything from being there. He's ready for NHL minutes and just needs to learn the game over a full season.
He also fits perfectly on the 3rd pairing with Bieksa for development purposes and for the team in general.
"Trade Theodore now while his value is highest"
Wrong. For 2 main reasons. His value will only go up after this season, he's shown the world he has flashes but has major flaws still in these playoffs, and is only playing 12 minutes a night on a team where another rookie is handling it fine. GMs know how to look past the nhl.com point totals. That is a terrible time to trade a blue chip defensive prospect. His value is certainly going to be higher this time next year. PS Bieksa is likely supplanting him in the lineup to make it worse.
Second, the ducks need him. At his ELC price tag, he offers efficient production on the 3rd pairing and beats anything free agency would have to offer. He literally helps the team win.
"Forward prospect that is worth Montour?"
At this point, I'd realistically say something like Nylander. But as a manager I wouldn't pull the trigger for just him, it's Marner or no deal. Where else are you finding Montour? I can draft Nylander in the top 5-10 every year. Defenders have too high of a failure rate, once you develop one and he's here to stay - his value skyrockets. And Montour's value has/is skyrocketing right now.
He doesn't lose value because Montour is playing better. Scouts believe he is ready for the NHL already. Can't blame him for making mistakes, it's not like he's played a lot in the NHL before the playoffs. His value may increase, but with teams potentially losing one of their top 4 in expansion, his value will be at a premium before expansion.
It doesn`t matter that he has played 100 AHL games. If he sucks defensively, he may have to play a few more games in the AHL, so I disagree there.
But he is averaging 18+ minutes these playoffs, which is not bad for a 21 year old defenseman with pretty good transition and offensive skills.
But he is averaging 18+ minutes these playoffs, which is not bad for a 21 year old defenseman with pretty good transition and offensive skills.
The problem here is that we don't know/can't quantify the actual difference in the levels of play between the AHL and the NHL. We all know Theo has some very bad defensive lapses in the NHL, he very clearly isn't ready for a big defensive role in the league yet. Problem is, he might well be good enough to constantly be the best if not one of the best defenders in any AHL game, and that might mean that whatever defensive lapses are in his play won't necessarily disappear there. If he gets away with stuff in the AHL that he can't get away with in the NHL, the big league might be the only place left for him to learn how not to play.
It's not like players will just magically get better as they play more. They get better when they play, get challenged, and need to develop their own game to answer those challenges. As such, the AHL might not always be the right answer for young players. It well might, but it also might not.
I have to give Theo some credit, he bounced back nicely after making that horrendous mistake in game 7. He also fixed some of the issues in his defensive game that looked glaring early in the series vs Edmonton. I believe he's done at the AHL level, unless we go back with Bieksa in the playoffs. There are growing pains with any prospect and a lot of what's happening with Theo can be attributed to his lack of exposure at the NHL level. He's learning on the fly in a very stressful environment. Being able to mentally adjust and rebound after making mistakes is a very good quality that not a lot of players have. He's more than ready for a full time NHL roll, which is why he's likely traded (if Fowler is resigned).
Paul4587
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2006
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You can't adamantly say his value is only going to up. Have you forgotten the likes of Etem and DSP who looked very promising but never developed properly and ended up fetching not much at all?
There is no way that his value "can only go up". If there's not more progression to his game, then his value will go down.
The ELC helps yes, but the Ducks won't be looking for anyone in free agency on defense. We have too many defenseman as is. That's kind of the point. It's not that we want to trade Theodore; it's that there likely isn't a spot for both he and Montour on the big club next year, and Montour is clearly who should be here out of the two. IMO, putting Theodore in the AHL does nothing good for him. I only trade him for a great return, but I don't see a way we can keep him here. I think Stoner is gone next season. I don't think Despres or Bieksa are though. And assuming Despres is healthy; I don't see he or Bieksa scratched on a consistent basis.
I love Montour but he is definitely not worth Nylander, value wise. I'd absolutely trade him for Nylander if they were game. Ideally we don't trade Montour, and I don't trade him for anything less than big overpayment (Nylander is IMO). Ideally we trade Vatanen and Theodore for forward improvements.
anezthes
Registered User
- Mar 20, 2014
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Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
You need much better examples. Those two never appeared to be anything other than bottom 6 players.
Paul4587
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2006
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I don't know Etem after the Detroit series in '13 was being labelled a stud everywhere except for a half dozen of us here on hfboards. Obviously nobody other than GMs can be sure but I would think his value was much higher after that series than it was when we traded him. If Theodore isn't in the NHL full time at the end of next year and is still struggling on the defensive side of things his value certainly wouldn't be higher than it is now.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
That's fair, in that Etem dropped his value, but I don't know that he ever had a huge upside. My point was that Theodore still projects as a very valuable player, and you can teach a player to play defense. You can't teach what he can do offensively.
Edit - I'd also argue that Etem was actually traded for a pretty good return. Hagelin + 59th (Nattinen) + 179th(Metcalf) for Etem + 41st is a pretty good haul for Anaheim.
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NEWFowler
hi
- Jul 22, 2012
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