Bouwmeester's San Antonio production...

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silver_made*

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Vlad The Impaler said:
I'm not worried at all by the stats, except I was hoping maybe someone would light a fire under his ass.

12/9 Rampage vs. Grizzlies: Bouwmeester healthy-scratched by Ludzik.
 

silver_made*

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Jacobv2 said:
If they're a bad offensive team I think that speaks volumes about Weiss, Horton, and Bouwmeester, does it not?

You're right.

When it comes to offensive production, most of florida's forward prospects are simply overhyped. The funny thing is that the overlooked guys will be the most productive in the end. Ignore the gushing over horton, weiss, stewart, globke, etc.; pay attention to olesz (still getting **** over the phaneuf hit), roussin (supposedly riding crosby's coattails), and meyer (supposedly a poor-skater who won't make it). if anything, fans should be inquiring about kolnik's lack of production. probably florida's best offensive producer in '03-'04 (considering # of games played), juraj is more bored with the AHL right now than any player, considering the dues he has put in in order to get to the show. kolnik's poor play does not surprise me at all. he is playing with san antonio out of respect for the opportunity management has given him, even though he would be much more energized to be playing in a european elite league.

so you are in fact right; san antonio's poor offensive play does lay squarely on the limited offensive potential in guys like taticek, horton, and weiss. in the future, though, other teams will have to worry about roussin, meyer, kolnik, and olesz. Florida's defense, young or not, has received more criticism over the years than it deserves. it is florida's rather pathetic ensemble of forwards who can't carry the puck out of their own zone, resulting in the barage of shots.

olesz: florida's best forward 1st rd. pick in franchise history
 

J17 Vs Proclamation

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silver_made said:
You're right.

When it comes to offensive production, most of florida's forward prospects are simply overhyped. The funny thing is that the overlooked guys will be the most productive in the end. Ignore the gushing over horton, weiss, stewart, globke, etc.; pay attention to olesz (still getting **** over the phaneuf hit), roussin (supposedly riding crosby's coattails), and meyer (supposedly a poor-skater who won't make it). if anything, fans should be inquiring about kolnik's lack of production. probably florida's best offensive producer in '03-'04 (considering # of games played), juraj is more bored with the AHL right now than any player, considering the dues he has put in in order to get to the show. kolnik's poor play does not surprise me at all. he is playing with san antonio out of respect for the opportunity management has given him, even though he would be much more energized to be playing in a european elite league.

so you are in fact right; san antonio's poor offensive play does lay squarely on the limited offensive potential in guys like taticek, horton, and weiss. in the future, though, other teams will have to worry about roussin, meyer, kolnik, and olesz. Florida's defense, young or not, has received more criticism over the years than it deserves. it is florida's rather pathetic ensemble of forwards who can't carry the puck out of their own zone, resulting in the barage of shots.

olesz: florida's best forward 1st rd. pick in franchise history
Weiss is never over hyped. Globke is an unknown quantity and isn't hyped at all. Stewart stock has skyrocketed with good reason and Horton is a beast. How do people say florida fowards are overhyped. Olesz is underated and i think he will suprise many people but i don't see him as our best pick in franchise history. Roussin is a boom or bust. He could be great for us as we need goal scoring or he could not make it. Personally i'd rather have Meyer over Kreps.
The comment saying florida's defens edeserves less critism is partialy correct. Some of our defense has sucked while guys like Mezie and Bouwmeester have been solid. The foward situation is going to improve pretty quiclky. The big things we are missing is a good goalie prospect and a big physical defensive prospect.
Other than we have some great prospects.
 

PecaFan

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Personally, I've never bought into the "future superstar" hype for Bouwmeester. The physical game isn't there, I don't see the scoring. And he's so damned laid back off the ice, that I'm not sure he'll ever be the ultra competitive type that seems to be necessary to become an elite player.

He's good, don't get me wrong.
 

dancingtree

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PanthersRule said:
Bouwmeester doesn't care in San Antonio. End of story! He tried for a 3 game stretch, picked up 5 points in 2 games with a shorthanded goal too, just to show that he's way better than anyone there, and now he stopped trying again.

This may answer the production question, but it brings up another question about his character. Guys like Gretzky and Mario seemed to care everytime they played hockey no matter where they were playing.
 

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dancingtree said:
This may answer the production question, but it brings up another question about his character. Guys like Gretzky and Mario seemed to care everytime they played hockey no matter where they were playing.
I dunno, but I dont recall Mario or Wayne playing in the minors.
Insofar as Mario is concerned, you must have watched a different Mario than me cause the Mario I saw was certainly not adverse to doggin it.
 

silver_made*

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J17ster said:
Weiss is never over hyped. Globke is an unknown quantity and isn't hyped at all. Stewart stock has skyrocketed with good reason and Horton is a beast. How do people say florida fowards are overhyped. Olesz is underated and i think he will suprise many people but i don't see him as our best pick in franchise history. Roussin is a boom or bust. He could be great for us as we need goal scoring or he could not make it. Personally i'd rather have Meyer over Kreps.
The comment saying florida's defens edeserves less critism is partialy correct. Some of our defense has sucked while guys like Mezie and Bouwmeester have been solid. The foward situation is going to improve pretty quiclky. The big things we are missing is a good goalie prospect and a big physical defensive prospect.
Other than we have some great prospects.

panther prospects, as a whole, are IMO opinion overhyped by not only panthers fans but all hockey fans. note that i call olesz florida's best forward 1st rd. selection; you honestly disagree w/ me? you prefer stone-hands dvorak?
 

J17 Vs Proclamation

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silver_made said:
panther prospects, as a whole, are IMO opinion overhyped by not only panthers fans but all hockey fans. note that i call olesz florida's best forward 1st rd. selection; you honestly disagree w/ me? you prefer stone-hands dvorak?

I'd prefer Horton, Bouwmeester and Weiss at the moment. As for career wise Jovanovski has been pretty good. Olesz while i like him a lot still has questions to answer and considering the recent 1st picks we have had it doesn't make sense to call him our best prospect. Florida prospects are not hyped as much as your saying and if they are hyped it is usually for a reason. J-BO maybe slightly overhyped but he is going to be very very good. Our prospects have very good upsides. Horton could be franchise player, Bouwmeester could be a norris trophy winner, Weiss will be a top line center, Roussin might make it as a second line winger along with Kreps and Meyer. Krajicek could be powerplay specialist and second pairing and Stewartr= could be either a first or second line player.
 

DuklaNation

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Lets face it. JBo is just a better version of Bret Hedican offensively. He doesn't run the PP very well. I don't see him ever getting more than 40 pts.
 

Sotnos

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J17ster said:
Florida prospects are not hyped as much as your saying
Yes they are. I've seen Panthers fans say that Weiss is better than Lecavalier. In this very thread someone guarantees that Bouwmeester will win a Norris as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. That's not overhyping?
 

J17 Vs Proclamation

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Sotnos said:
Yes they are. I've seen Panthers fans say that Weiss is better than Lecavalier. In this very thread someone guarantees that Bouwmeester will win a Norris as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. That's not overhyping?

Thats could homerism. Weiss isn't being hyped to be Lecavalier. Outside Florida people underate Weiss a lot. I think it is a bit arrogant to say Bouwmeester will win a norris trophy but he shore as hell has the potential to if he uses his size more.
 
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Crossbar

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Sotnos said:
Yes they are. I've seen Panthers fans say that Weiss is better than Lecavalier. In this very thread someone guarantees that Bouwmeester will win a Norris as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. That's not overhyping?

What group of fans don't overhype their prospects here on HF?
 

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silver_made said:
panther prospects, as a whole, are IMO opinion overhyped by not only panthers fans but all hockey fans.
They were ranked 19th in the NHL on HF, including Horton. That certainly doesn't seem like overhyping. As for Bouwmeester, Kolnik, etc., I can't imagine a worse excuse for a lack of production that that they are bored. If anything, I would accuse JBO of playing to the level of his competition, whether it be World Cup caliber or AHL caliber. That speaks to a lack of confidence.

While Florida is certainly counting on Horton, Weiss, JBo, Stewart, Olesz and Krajicek to be big contributors, they do have a deeper set of prospects and young players than in the past, many of whom the team isn't really counting on to work out (Nedorost, Meyer, Novak, Globke, Kreps, and even guys like Roussin and Taticek). That gives them room for error, so even if a Daigle happens, they should still have a strong, built-from-the-bottom-up team in the near future.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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wint said:
If anything, I would accuse JBO of playing to the level of his competition, whether it be World Cup caliber or AHL caliber. That speaks to a lack of confidence.

I disagree. If you can outperform several great defensemen in a world class tournament at his age, confidence isn't much of an issue, IMO.
 

Hughes J Laffy

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Sotnos said:
Yes they are. I've seen Panthers fans say that Weiss is better than Lecavalier. In this very thread someone guarantees that Bouwmeester will win a Norris as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. That's not overhyping?

Yes Im the one that said J-Bo will sure win the Norris Trophy and I stick to it! He is just incredible from what I have seen of him. And why do ppl complain about his physical play? sure is not physical a la Stevens and Pronger but their style of play usually lead to injuries which I dont like to see happen to J-Bo. And J-Bo is not a soft player, he does play some physical as he does use the body.

And about Weiss being better than Lecavalier, Im apologize for that Panthers fan as Weiss is not at all better than Lecavalier. And somehow I have never been hight on Horton :(.

But J-Bo, truly amazing, and about the points producing in AHL? player just tend to score low in certain league a la Kovalchuk in RSL.
 

PanthersRule96

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silver_made said:
olesz: florida's best forward 1st rd. pick in franchise history
I think he could be, and I am so so so so glad, you don't even know, that we got him. Horton, Weiss, and Stewart are no slouches though so he'll have still competition for that spot. I don't care if he is or not, as long as Horton and he and Weiss and Stewart all become stars or great players like they could be.

Will be better IMO than:

Niedermayer
Weiss
Dvorak
Nilson
Mike Brown (well duh)
Stewart
About equal to:
Horton
 

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DuklaNation said:
Lets face it. JBo is just a better version of Bret Hedican offensively. He doesn't run the PP very well. I don't see him ever getting more than 40 pts.
No, but Krajicek, Weiss, Novak, VanRyn, and Kreps all can run the PP.
 

allelsefails

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PanthersRule said:
Bouwmeester doesn't care in San Antonio. End of story! He tried for a 3 game stretch, picked up 5 points in 2 games with a shorthanded goal too, just to show that he's way better than anyone there, and now he stopped trying again.

If this is true, speaks volumes about his character.

If the team is offensively challenged, why not lead them like a potential norris candidate would? Encourage them with his game, show them it can be done.

And if he wants to prove he is way better than anyone there, do it all season long.
 

MS

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I've said since before he was drafted that he has the head of a #2 or #3 defender in the skill package of a #1. He does one thing exceptionally well - he can run a breakout better than any young defender in the game, either with his outlet passing or his ability to lug the puck up ice. But other than that he's at his best when he's playing a quiet, simple game and can leave physical and/or offensive end of things to his partner. He's not a player who initiates, and will never dominate or control a game in either the offensive or defensive end of the ice. Pair him with an aggressive Blake-type guy, ask him to play a controlled game in a complementary role and he'll excel (as he has in international play). Give him the responsibilities of a #1 defender and he'll disappoint. He's what you'd get if you put Scott Lachance's head in Chris Pronger's body.

He'll be a very good defender for a very long time, but I just don't think he has the mental makeup to be a Norris Trophy-type guy. Pretty much every player to win that award (or contend for it) has been a take-charge player who can take control of a game and lead by example. Bouwmeester will never ever be that (he wasn't even in the WHL really) ... he'll just be quietly efficient.
 

Puckhead

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Vlad The Impaler said:
Jay Bouwmeester is an awesome defenseman, no doubt about it. But his flaw is he doesn't take charge nearly often enough. You could put back this guy on a junior team right now and I'm not sure he would look dominant.

The flip side to this is, he is so talented you can put him on an elite squad (like a team Canada) and he isn't out of place at all. He can play with and against the very best.

All this to say, those stats in the AHL just reflect the fact he doesn't dominate and take charge. You could throw him in a world class tournament tomorrow and he'd be talented enough to play well.

I'm not worried at all by the stats, except I was hoping maybe someone would light a fire under his ass. If this guy could take charge... sky is the limit. Even if he remains as he is, he is still one of the safest youngster as far as developing into a star player at the highest level.
Well said Vlad, but if iron Mike as GM and previously as head coach didn't get the fire lit, something else is up. I think he is just taking it all in stride, and will be that dominant D-man soon enough. As you said, he is not out of place at all when playing with the best, so I feel as the team gets better, he will SHINE! Lest we forget he is only 21 with 2 NHL seasons under his belt, and 2 maybe 3 quality players on the Panthers roster in the way of help so far. Not to worry, I am pleased with what he has shown thus far, and Florida is poised to make some moves up in the standings if we can ever get back to playing the game.
 

dancingtree

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Jay-Bo: 3 goals, 6 assists - 29 games played.

I don't care if he is "bored", focusing on defense, or whatever. Those numbers are pathetic for someone of his talent level.
 

J17 Vs Proclamation

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dancingtree said:
Jay-Bo: 3 goals, 6 assists - 29 games played.

I don't care if he is "bored", focusing on defense, or whatever. Those numbers are pathetic for someone of his talent level.

Dude check out the rest of SA stats. Yeah it looks mighty impressive doesn't it. J-bo hasn't played well but give the kid a break. He played at the WC and played well.
 

Crossbar

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J17ster said:
Dude check out the rest of SA stats. Yeah it looks mighty impressive doesn't it. J-bo hasn't played well but give the kid a break. He played at the WC and played well.

Yep just compare Eric Beadouin's numbers from last year to this year, they are all struggling to score but even more disturbing is they are allowing way too many shots on their goaltenders as they did Luongo in Florida. Its easy to blame coaching but that appears to be what the problem is, terrible system.
 

dancingtree

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Now Jay-Bo is at 4 goals, 13 assists, and a team "leading" -18 in 53 AHL games. I know he is possibly "on a bad team in a bad system", but I still would expect better numbers from the future superstar that a lot of people on HF have proclaimed him to be.
 
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