GDT: Boston visits Carolina 7PM : Only bear sign left as the arena is clawed and gory.

[bleedgreen]

But......she’s so pretty....

 

[rocketdan9]

What coach does not call time out at 4 - 3 or 4 -4? Oh right, ours! The Boston commentators on NHL Network before the game were talking about Peters as a great coach. I wonder what they think now?!

Bruins fan coming here in peace

I agree the Caines coach messed up by not calling timeout when it was 4-3. He had another shot at 4-4.

Team was obviously startled and instead of either calming things down or grabbing a stick and wacking on something to wake the team up..... He did nothing.

 

[bluedevil58]

Bruins fan coming here in peace

I agree the Caines coach messed up by not calling timeout when it was 4-3. He had another shot at 4-4.

Team was obviously startled and instead of either calming things down or grabbing a stick and wacking on something to wake the team up..... He did nothing.

Another reason why he should be fired. BP messing up as an on going issue.

 

[The Faulker 27]

Bruins fan coming here in peace

I agree the Caines coach messed up by not calling timeout when it was 4-3. He had another shot at 4-4.

Team was obviously startled and instead of either calming things down or grabbing a stick and wacking on something to wake the team up..... He did nothing.

He's either not good at coaching under pressure, or he wants to get under Tripp Tracy's skin by not calling the timeout that Tripp is inevitably obsessing over.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

"Going into a shell" was definitely not a contributing factor in last night's collapse.

I was going to say .... multiple odd man rushes in a span of two minutes isn’t “going into a shell,” it’s more like ridiculous pinching + clearly illegal closing hand on puck.

 

[NotOpie]

Everybody associated with the game last night knew the Bruins were going to come with a push. And if they didn't, the goal by Grzelcyk should have been a literal announcement of the push. At that point, it's up to the 20 guys wearing Canes sweaters to push back, to match the Bruins intensity and show that this one is over. For whatever reason, this Canes team does not have that mode. And I don't think Peters can just magically conjure it, either. We're not built to push back. We don't have the leadership. We don't have the intensity. We don't have the players to do it.

I'm a little confused....were these the same 19 players that notched a 4-1 lead through 50 minutes? Against one of the better teams in the league? Cause they were intense enough to get there, basically dominating play for most of the game. This is the same team that often comes out looking out of sorts, confused even and rarely, but sometimes, rights the ship. Teams can and do reflect their coaches and coaching. You want intensity from your team, you damn well better model it for them. You want clarity of purpose, you can't be the guy that gave last night's post-game presser.

Sure it has to be up to the guys to execute, but when they fail at that or need direction, the coaching staff have to be the ones to bring them back to center. That didn't happen last night and it hasn't happened far too often.

The coaching staff has *clearly* tried to fix this. We just don't have the players to do it, and expecting them to "figure out" something that they just don't have is absurd.

But isn't that really the point...has the staff "tried"? Bill Peters and his staff haven't wielded ice time on a meritocracy basis. If the guys aren't "figuring it out", that's the coach's job to provide them with direction, with a road map to help them do that. The time out failure wasn't at 4-2, it was at 4-3. I looked over at the bench and Peters and Co. looked more shell-shocked that the kids on the ice. Once, just once, I'd like to see and hear the coaches scream at these guys during said time-out, "You bunch of f***ing p***yes, you're giving this goddamn thing away, now get the f*** out there and play like the men who played the 1st 50 f***ing minutes of the game....what part of this is your f***ing season do you not understand".

When Justin Faulk was having regular brain cramps earlier in the season, why didn't Peters wield his vaunted ice time power and put him in the press box for a couple of games?

I'm not saying the Peters is the only problem, but he's either lying or he's lost the team. Either way, you cannot absolve him from significant responsibility for the ENTIRETY of last nights affair.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I'm a little confused....were these the same 19 players that notched a 4-1 lead through 50 minutes? Against one of the better teams in the league? Cause they were intense enough to get there, basically dominating play for most of the game.

Come on. You know the intensity it takes to get a lead is nowhere near the intensity needed to close out a game against a superior opponent. You know the trailing team is going ramp up the desperation, and we've got to ramp up the intensity to match. We've *been* that team enough times that I know you know what I'm talking about and it's left you straining pretty hard to make your point. The Canes were unable to handle the Bruins push last night, and I find it very hard to believe it's because they were unprepared for it.

This is the same team that often comes out looking out of sorts, confused even and rarely, but sometimes, rights the ship. Teams can and do reflect their coaches and coaching. You want intensity from your team, you damn well better model it for them. You want clarity of purpose, you can't be the guy that gave last night's post-game presser.

Sure it has to be up to the guys to execute, but when they fail at that or need direction, the coaching staff have to be the ones to bring them back to center. That didn't happen last night and it hasn't happened far too often.

I *agree* with you. I don't like the way Francis built this team, and I don't like how Peters coaches it. I just think we're working too hard to blame BP for every single thing going wrong, and I don't get the upside. It's not like having a more vocal coach is going to change things overnight. Our issues are far, far, far bigger than Bill Peters.

Yes, he needs to go. But I'm really concerned about the culture right now, and I'm not sure how replacing the head coach changes that all that much.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think the current version of the team -- post Brindy era -- was built without paying any special attention to leadership, mental toughness and hockey IQ. It's fixable, but RF clearly put no value in it. This team is built in Francis's and Peters's image, even keel, never too high, never too low. The problem is that the team -- like Francis and Peters -- don't have the ability to get fired up when it's called for. What I wouldn't give for a Toews or Messier or Brindy-like leader.

Re: the hockey IQ part, that's simply not true. Francis constantly talked about drafting guys that were big, could skate and had strong hockey IQ. It was a focus of his. In fact, I think it's the main reason he drafted Aho.

Now, you can say he failed at his attempts, but to say he put no value in hockey IQ and maybe even toughness (with his focus on size) isn't accurate at all.

This isn't a statement about how well he did or did not draft, just a statement about your assertion that he didn't put value on Hockey IQ.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I *agree* with you. I don't like the way Francis built this team, and I don't like how Peters coaches it. I just think we're working too hard to blame BP for every single thing going wrong, and I don't get the upside. It's not like having a more vocal coach is going to change things overnight. Our issues are far, far, far bigger than Bill Peters.

Yes, he needs to go. But I'm really concerned about the culture right now, and I'm not sure how replacing the head coach changes that all that much.

Is this the real life, or is it just fantasy?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Step 1 is to fire this coach and all the coaches around him.

**** me there are too many steps needed. Just ****ing clean house.

I was thinkin' of ya last night, Joe.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Re: the hockey IQ part, that's simply not true. Francis constantly talked about drafting guys that were big, could skate and had strong hockey IQ. It was a focus of his. In fact, I think it's the main reason he drafted Aho.

Now, you can say he failed at his attempts, but to say he put no value in hockey IQ and maybe even toughness (with his focus on size) isn't accurate at all.

This isn't a statement about how well he did or did not draft, just a statement about your assertion that he didn't put value on Hockey IQ.

What he said, and what he did are two different things. He may have said he valued hockey sense, but then he drafted Noah Hanifin, who has none. He was stuck with Lindholm and Faulk from JR's time, but he didn't do anything to move them. RF talked a good game, but he massively under-delivered. Our team is very below average in terms of hockey sense.

And I said mental toughness, not toughness. Although we're also a team of pansies, but that's just kicking guys when they're down.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

What he said, and what he did are two different things. He may have said he valued hockey sense, but then he drafted Noah Hanifin, who has none.

Hanifin wasn't viewed as a guy with no hockey sense when he was drafted. In fact, it was the opposite. You are, in your own words, trying too hard to place blame. As I said, if you want to say Francis failed to execute and evaluate talent, then fine, but to say he didn't value hockey sense is you just making stuff up to fit your narrative.

 

[bluedevil58]

Hanifin wasn't viewed as a guy with no hockey sense when he was drafted. In fact, it was the opposite. You are, in your own words, trying too hard to place blame. As I said, if you want to say Francis failed to execute and evaluate talent, then fine, but to say he didn't value hockey sense is you just making stuff up to fit your narrative.

Francis failed at the player for player trade aspect. Were Slavin, Aho, Pesce drafted by RF?

 

[Tryamw]

Once more sorry all My curse ability for my own GDT's is real I'll bow out now and let some others lead us further in the loss column

 

[Canes]

The main thing I remember scouts being concerned about with Hanifin was his offensive ability and his ceiling as a defender, and that group seemed to be a minority. Most, if not all, scouting reports touted his skating ability and hockey sense. Most scouts seemed to have him as the #1 d-man, but a few teams had the top #3 D slotted differently (one team having Provorov as high as 3rd overall, for example).

Hanifin has just been developing pretty slowly for a number of reasons. He, like Lindholm, could have probably benefited from another year of development. I also think he would benefit from a better partner, TVR and Faulk just don't cut it, and constantly switching between the two just exacerbates the problem.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Hanifin wasn't viewed as a guy with no hockey sense when he was drafted. In fact, it was the opposite. You are, in your own words, trying too hard to place blame. As I said, if you want to say Francis failed to execute and evaluate talent, then fine, but to say he didn't value hockey sense is you just making stuff up to fit your narrative.

3. Noah Hanifin - Defence (L) - Article - TSN

Button was not a fan (3/5 in smarts), and the scuttlebutt leading up to the draft was that he may have "peaked" in college and wouldn't get a whole lot better than he was at that point. I'd say that so far, that's pretty dead-on accurate.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Also found this neat nugget in this article:

"Hanifin has a great overall game. He's a supreme shot blocker, and has a booming shot," said Russ Cohen of Sportsology.com and draft guru for Prospects Radio on SiriusXM's NHL Network Radio.

A "booming shot?" Meanwhile, Button had his shot as a 2/5. And I'm not sure he's blocked a shot at the NHL level. You just can't believe everything you read leading up to the draft.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

3. Noah Hanifin - Defence (L) - Article - TSN

Button was not a fan (3/5 in smarts), and the scuttlebutt leading up to the draft was that he may have "peaked" in college and wouldn't get a whole lot better than he was at that point. I'd say that so far, that's pretty dead-on accurate.

Button? Ok then:

Craig Button: Haydn has all the attributes of a two-way defenseman. Excellent skating base and he uses it defensively and to jump into the attack offensively. Very good puck skills and he passes well out of his zone and in the offensive zone to create scoring chances. Very good awareness with the puck and is threat with his shot which makes it hard to keep him from contributing. Competitive and continues to gain confidence and get better.

"Calgary Hitmen blueliner Jake Bean (No. 11) is an exceptional skater with an outstanding mind and he uses both to impact the game in a significant manner. He’s quick to recognize where there is opportunity and his body can carry out what his mind commands."

So in those picks, Francis must have been going after hockey sense, right? Kev, seriously, just stop. If you want to say Francis is a bad GM, then fine.

But to say he didn't value "hockey sense" is just you trying WAY too hard to prove your narrative. Heck, a couple years ago people were complaining about Francis focusing too much on size and hockey sense and not enough on skill.

Make your points and stick with reality rather than making shit up to try to prove it. I know that's too much to ask of you though.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Button? Ok then:

So in those picks, Francis must have been going after hockey sense, right? Kev, seriously, just stop. If you want to say Francis is a bad GM, then fine.

But to say he didn't value "hockey sense" is just you trying WAY too hard to prove your narrative. Heck, a couple years ago people were complaining about Francis focusing too much on size and hockey sense and not enough on skill.

Make your points and stick with reality rather than making **** up to try to prove it. I know that's too much to ask of you though.

Look, all I'm saying is that for a guy who claimed to value hockey sense, Ron Francis built a pretty dumb hockey team.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Isn't Button the one that takes a vastly different view from every other scouting report simply to stand out?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Look, all I'm saying is that for a guy who claimed to value hockey sense, Ron Francis built a pretty dumb hockey team.

Fine, but that's not what you said. You said he didn't value hockey sense, which, IMO is false (particularly when it comes to the draft). We can disagree on Hanifin (who was a concensus top 5 pick), but Aho, Roy, Wallmark, Roy, Bean, Kuokkanen, Necas, etc.. are NOT universally viewed as "dumb" players. Francis may have failed as a GM, but IMO, not because he didn't value Hockey Sense.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Isn't Button the one that takes a vastly different view from every other scouting report simply to stand out?

Button is great to quote when he fits you narrative. I've done it myself.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Fine, but that's not what you said. You said he didn't value hockey sense, which, IMO is false (particularly when it comes to the draft). We can disagree on Hanifin (who was a concensus top 5 pick), but Aho, Roy, Wallmark, Roy, Bean, Kuokkanen, Necas, etc.. are NOT universally viewed as "dumb" players. Francis may have failed as a GM, but IMO, not because he didn't value Hockey Sense.

And again, *saying* he valued hockey sense and *doing* things to show he valued hockey sense are also two different things. Yes, he drafted a lot of guys who appear to think the game well, although we won't know for sure until they hit NHL ice. But he inherited several players who had proven to be a tad dense (Faulk and others), but still had value around the league, and he did nothing to move them along. I know he said he valued hockey sense, but you wouldn't know it by looking around our organization. That's all I was saying.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

And again, *saying* he valued hockey sense and *doing* things to show he valued hockey sense are also two different things. Yes, he drafted a lot of guys who appear to think the game well, although we won't know for sure until they hit NHL ice. But he inherited several players who had proven to be a tad dense (Faulk and others), but still had value around the league, and he did nothing to move them along. I know he said he valued hockey sense, but you wouldn't know it by looking around our organization. That's all I was saying.

So in other words, you are saying you were talking out of your ass?

 

[NotOpie]

The Canes were unable to handle the Bruins push last night, and I find it very hard to believe it's because they were unprepared for it.

When teams push, it isn't always intensity that make a difference, although that's usually part of it. They change things up, they attack in different tactical ways. When a good coach sees that and sees that his team isn't effectively responding, it is his responsibility to make sure his team has an effective strategy in their response...it is the coaching staff's responsibility to recognize it and give the team the tools to adjust. Frankly, I think Peters is a good coach strategically and probably good at game prep....from what I've seen, I don't believe he's a particularly good "in game" coach who can adjust to the current situation on the ice. To paraphrase Mike Tyson, "Everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth".

As I said, it is the team's responsibility to execute. They didn't do that very well, but they also appeared to be ill equipped to counter-punch.

But I'm really concerned about the culture right now, and I'm not sure how replacing the head coach changes that all that much.

To absolve the coaching staff from their responsibility to establish the right culture is a cop out. They are critical in impacting attitudes.

Look, I'll say it again, my problem with Peters isn't as an X's and O's guy, it's with his ability to manage personalities and his ability to adjust to the various situations as they present themselves. I also believe that he essentially loses the room periodically and just might have done that for good over these last few weeks. I'm not sure you can recover from that.