Boston Globe:NHLPA OFFER

[RangerBoy]

Kevin Paul Dupont of the Boston Globe mentioned the NHLPA stands ready to make an offer

Word around the Original 30 last week was that the players' side, following up their recent executive jaw session in Pebble Beach, Calif., stands ready to make a substantive proposal at tomorrow's talks.

According to one source familiar with what the union cobbled together in Pebble Beach, the key components might include, for the first time, a provision for a so-called franchise player. Aside to real puck nuts: Your faithful chronicler suggested precisely that element, as a means of kick-starting talks, in a Feb. 28 posting on HFboards.com

Hey kpd/hoh

Salary cap of $42 million (includes $39.8 million in salary and $2.2 million in benefits).

Salary floor of $34 million.

Franchise player, with neither salary nor benefits to be included in $42 million cap figure, but club to pay 50 percent tax.

Unrestricted free agency lowered to age 27 from 31.

Entry-level salaries to be capped at $1.2 million (including performance bonuses) per season.

Qualifying offers for restricted free agents lowered to 75 percent (from current position of 110 or 100 percent, based on player's existing salary).

Five-year limit on all individual contracts (currently no term restrictions).

Team revenue sharing, of varying percentages, during regular season and playoffs.

http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/articles/2005/04/03/raised_stakes_for_sanderson?pg=2

Click to read more...

 

[Tekneek]

I'll never believe this is legit until it is revealed by the NHLPA or the NHL. If the NHL really wanted to get back into business, they would take this offer and open up shop. That's what makes me think it is bogus. I can't see them coming up with something like that and actually proposing it.

 

[Pepper]

Please don't tell me even KDP is starting to quote Eklund...

 

[BobMckenzie]

Kevin Paul Dupont of the Boston Globe mentioned the NHLPA stands ready to make an offer

Word around the Original 30 last week was that the players' side, following up their recent executive jaw session in Pebble Beach, Calif., stands ready to make a substantive proposal at tomorrow's talks.

According to one source familiar with what the union cobbled together in Pebble Beach, the key components might include, for the first time, a provision for a so-called franchise player. Aside to real puck nuts: Your faithful chronicler suggested precisely that element, as a means of kick-starting talks, in a Feb. 28 posting on HFboards.com

Hey kpd/hoh

Salary cap of $42 million (includes $39.8 million in salary and $2.2 million in benefits).

Salary floor of $34 million.

Franchise player, with neither salary nor benefits to be included in $42 million cap figure, but club to pay 50 percent tax.

Unrestricted free agency lowered to age 27 from 31.

Entry-level salaries to be capped at $1.2 million (including performance bonuses) per season.

Qualifying offers for restricted free agents lowered to 75 percent (from current position of 110 or 100 percent, based on player's existing salary).

Five-year limit on all individual contracts (currently no term restrictions).

Team revenue sharing, of varying percentages, during regular season and playoffs.

http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/articles/2005/04/03/raised_stakes_for_sanderson?pg=2

This is precisely the same material that was presented on MOJO 640 in Toronto on Friday and as I said on page 9 of that thread, I am completely satisfied there is no legitimacy to the details of this "proposal" -- the PA could not have shot it down with more force -- and I personally am not convinced there will even be a proposal per se on Monday when the two sides meet. Take that for what it's worth.

Bob McKenzie
TSN

 

[Pepper]

This is precisely the same material that was presented on MOJO 640 in Toronto on Friday and as I said on page 9 of that thread, I am completely satisfied there is no legitimacy to the details of this "proposal" -- the PA could not have shot it down with more force -- and I personally am not convinced there will even be a proposal per se on Monday when the two sides meet. Take that for what it's worth.

Bob McKenzie
TSN

Hey Bob, I know you can't reveal your sources but have you talked about this issue (offer or no offer tomorrow) with any of the PA "big guys"?

 

[thinkwild]

It seems believable, and I'd hope that the NHLPA would want to present another offer. And unlike the league, a better one than before. Hard to be optimistic the owners will be any more receptive than before though.

But i really dont like the concept of a franchise player tag. It seems so anti-hockey. Designed to split up the Orr-Espo, Sakic, Forsberg, Kariya Selanne, combo's. I just dont like the message it sends or its effect on team building. Any more than i like the incenting payrolls towards an average and maintaining it as a system. Such a narrow payroll range means you never rebuild to low or achieve to great. I cant imagine fans desiring that without the threat of losing a team over their heads.

Is the timing right? Hard to see the harball course of events resolving itself at this point in time.

 

[BobMckenzie]

Please don't tell me even KDP is starting to quote Eklund...

The details of this supposed proposal were floating around Friday before they were posted on any blog sites. Some people choose to take this type of information and go with it as fact. For the record, I heard Marek and Watters characterize the information they presented as Friday as "what we hear might be in the proposal." They didn't present it as fact. When it didn't check out as factual for me, I just chose to do nothing with it. But when it ends up on a blog, it's amazing how many players end up with it. And then the players e-mail it or pass it along to other players or media, and the next thing you know it's being reported in the mainstream media as what the players are saying is in the proposal. The media business is a funny business and that's not funny ha ha so much as funny peculiar. Sometimes it's funny ha ha, but more often than not it's funny peculiar.

 

[rockon83]

This is precisely the same material that was presented on MOJO 640 in Toronto on Friday

speaking of hockey talk, do ANY of the canadian stations have local programming, ie hockey talk on sundays that can be listened to online? any of the fan or mojo stations, or any others?

 

[handtrick]

The details of this supposed proposal were floating around Friday before they were posted on any blog sites. Some people choose to take this type of information and go with it as fact. For the record, I heard Marek and Watters characterize the information they presented as Friday as "what we hear might be in the proposal." They didn't present it as fact. When it didn't check out as factual for me, I just chose to do nothing with it. But when it ends up on a blog, it's amazing how many players end up with it. And then the players e-mail it or pass it along to other players or media, and the next thing you know it's being reported in the mainstream media as what the players are saying is in the proposal. The media business is a funny business and that's not funny ha ha so much as funny peculiar. Sometimes it's funny ha ha, but more often than not it's funny peculiar.

bob....do you think some of the components were being sent up as a trial balloon or the whole thing is totally baseless?

 

[Vagabond]

I too hope this is true, but.. like everything else, it's probably another farse.

 

[RangerBoy]

This is precisely the same material that was presented on MOJO 640 in Toronto on Friday and as I said on page 9 of that thread, I am completely satisfied there is no legitimacy to the details of this "proposal" -- the PA could not have shot it down with more force -- and I personally am not convinced there will even be a proposal per se on Monday when the two sides meet. Take that for what it's worth.

Bob McKenzie
TSN

Not exactly.Some of the concepts might be the same but the figures are different.Reading something on a message board or on a blog is different than reading it in the Boston Globe

Isn't it about time the NHLPA submitted a new offer?

 

[Pepper]

Not exactly.Some of the concepts might be the same but the figures are different.Reading something on a message board or on a blog is different than reading it in the Boston Globe

Isn't it about time the NHLPA submitted a new offer?

Why? Their last 'offer' (for lack of better term) was only what 4 months ago??

 

[on the boards]

The details of this supposed proposal were floating around Friday before they were posted on any blog sites.

Bob, FWIW, Ekfraud had posted this "insider info" on his blog Thursday-- the components to the NHPA counter proposal. No intention of giving that jerk any kudos, but the first place I saw it was on his stir up the crap blog-- it's only been since Friday that media outlets have been reporting the same info..

 

[kremlin]

Kevin Paul Dupont of the Boston Globe mentioned the NHLPA stands ready to make an offer

Word around the Original 30 last week was that the players' side, following up their recent executive jaw session in Pebble Beach, Calif., stands ready to make a substantive proposal at tomorrow's talks.

According to one source familiar with what the union cobbled together in Pebble Beach, the key components might include, for the first time, a provision for a so-called franchise player. Aside to real puck nuts: Your faithful chronicler suggested precisely that element, as a means of kick-starting talks, in a Feb. 28 posting on HFboards.com

Hey kpd/hoh

Salary cap of $42 million (includes $39.8 million in salary and $2.2 million in benefits).

Salary floor of $34 million.

Franchise player, with neither salary nor benefits to be included in $42 million cap figure, but club to pay 50 percent tax.

Unrestricted free agency lowered to age 27 from 31.

Entry-level salaries to be capped at $1.2 million (including performance bonuses) per season.

Qualifying offers for restricted free agents lowered to 75 percent (from current position of 110 or 100 percent, based on player's existing salary).

Five-year limit on all individual contracts (currently no term restrictions).

Team revenue sharing, of varying percentages, during regular season and playoffs.

http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/articles/2005/04/03/raised_stakes_for_sanderson?pg=2

Well, if this is the offer, it will be rejected within seconds.

 

[Master Shake*]

This is precisely the same material that was presented on MOJO 640 in Toronto on Friday and as I said on page 9 of that thread, I am completely satisfied there is no legitimacy to the details of this "proposal" -- the PA could not have shot it down with more force -- and I personally am not convinced there will even be a proposal per se on Monday when the two sides meet. Take that for what it's worth.

Bob McKenzie
TSN

Owners wouldnt take that even if it was real. Most owners didnt even want 42 on the table to start with. They sure as hell arent gonna take a worse offer then what the PA countered with before the season was canceled.

 

[firstroundbust]

whoa, bob mckenzie posts here?

hey bob, go for the rosie odonnell avatar!

 

[nomorekids]

A) I don't and won't believe this is an actual proposal until it's formally introduced as one.

B) Even if it WAS real, I'd be shocked if it was accepted. As documented over in the other thread over and over, the franchise player exemption provides for teams to spend in the neighborhood of 50 million dollars. Also, the UFA age is extremely low. I'd not be surprised to see it lowered...but not by 4 years. 29 is a more reasonable, workable number.

 

[Munchausen]

42M + franchise tag = back to 49M proposal or just about, so absolutely no progress as far as the cap number is concerned. Of course, the PA counts on revenue sharing to be able to boost the cap that high, but if the owners don't want revenue sharing in the form the PA is proposing, this number will be rejected in a nano-second.

What is an improvement would be the 75% QO, Baseball style arbitration and 1.2M rookie cap including bonuses (BTW, aren't those 3 points very close to what was in the 42.5M final offer from the league, and supposedly the reason why everything fell appart in the meeting of the 2nd chance to save the season? Maybe I'm mistaking, but if it is, their allegedly "much farther appart than we thought" claimed by Saskin was nothing but smoke.

Of course, I don't beleive those are the exact numbers that will come in an enventual counter (if there's ever one), but to me, it seems logical that the remaining battle will be on revenue sharing, since the PA probably realizes by now that there is no way they will ever get a high cap/floor number without it. So in other words, it's up to the big market teams to cave or not on that aspect if they want a deal, since they are likely the ones that will end up paying most of the sharing money.

 

[Jarqui]

in 2003-4, the average team salary was roughly around $44 mil. The NHLPA knocked 24% of that to get to a 'reaonable" starting point on Dec 9th. 24% off $44 mil is $33 mil. Therefore, based upon 2003-4 revenues, the teams must average $33 mil to maintain the start up point the NHLPA agreed they should have.

To start out with a $34 mil floor, (ignoring the franchise player for the moment), when everyone knows revenues will take a hit from losing the season, is total nonsense and a waste of everyone's time.

The best case is a drop of 10% in NHL revenue for next season. Baseball fell 20%. Any proposal that comes in higher than $30 mil average team payroll will not and can not be taken seriously by the NHL.

Screw the caps and revenue sharing etc in terms of numbers to cling to. The NHL league is down to affording a $900 mil payroll. Whatever caps, revenue sharing, taxes, etc,etc yoone wants, the numbers have to end up around $900 total and maximum.

 

[txpd]

It seems believable, and I'd hope that the NHLPA would want to present another offer. And unlike the league, a better one than before. Hard to be optimistic the owners will be any more receptive than before though.

But i really dont like the concept of a franchise player tag. It seems so anti-hockey. Designed to split up the Orr-Espo, Sakic, Forsberg, Kariya Selanne, combo's. I just dont like the message it sends or its effect on team building. Any more than i like the incenting payrolls towards an average and maintaining it as a system. Such a narrow payroll range means you never rebuild to low or achieve to great. I cant imagine fans desiring that without the threat of losing a team over their heads.

Is the timing right? Hard to see the harball course of events resolving itself at this point in time.

Actually, I think it has less to do with breaking up Sakic and Forsberg than it is about one team having 2 max payroll players like Sakic and Forsberg and then trading for two more max payroll players like Blake and Roy. Its that stuff that tilts the league totally off balance. The Red Wings have Cujo. Do they really need to go out and sign Hasek too? They have Lidstrom and Chelios. Do they really need to go out and sign Schneider and Hatcher too?

by the way...I think its very possible for a team to fit one $8-10m player under the $40m hard cap and sign another $8-10m "franchise player". Seems to me that these proposed rules would not breakup Sakic and Forsberg.

 

[chiavsfan]

It would be rejected in a second as the salary floor is WAY too high for some teams. I still dont think the cap number would be all that terrible, but a floor just a few million under what the owners want as a CAP? I don't think so

 

[Kritter471]

It would be rejected in a second as the salary floor is WAY too high for some teams. I still dont think the cap number would be all that terrible, but a floor just a few million under what the owners want as a CAP? I don't think so

Even though it appears this proposal is bogus, rejecting an aspect of the proposal doesn't mean they'd reject the entire thing. The owners are well with their right to accept (and if this system was proposed, they'd be stupid not to accept) things like the baseball style arbitration and the 75% qualifying offers while offering to negotiate the UFA age up and the salary floor down.

 

[R0CKET]

The details of this supposed proposal were floating around Friday before they were posted on any blog sites. Some people choose to take this type of information and go with it as fact. For the record, I heard Marek and Watters characterize the information they presented as Friday as "what we hear might be in the proposal." They didn't present it as fact. When it didn't check out as factual for me, I just chose to do nothing with it. But when it ends up on a blog, it's amazing how many players end up with it. And then the players e-mail it or pass it along to other players or media, and the next thing you know it's being reported in the mainstream media as what the players are saying is in the proposal. The media business is a funny business and that's not funny ha ha so much as funny peculiar. Sometimes it's funny ha ha, but more often than not it's funny peculiar.

Well if that's the case it seems like the players appear to be working the media thru the internet, which by itself would seem like a useful thing for them to do.

But as a proposal real or not-so-real, does this really have the look af a game saving idea to get these 2 waring sides to lay down their weopons and get back to this game? I don't see it by a long shot, but then again I'm just some hockey-crazed dreg sitting behind the monitor with a high-speed internet connection...

 

[Trizent]

speaking of hockey talk, do ANY of the canadian stations have local programming, ie hockey talk on sundays that can be listened to online? any of the fan or mojo stations, or any others?

The best Hockey show on Sundays is on LEAFTV "The Reporters". It is 2 hours long of hockey talk. Sorry it isn't available online, but just a heads up for those in Ontario ...

 

[mooseOAK*]

Kevin Paul Dupont of the Boston Globe mentioned the NHLPA stands ready to make an offer

Word around the Original 30 last week was that the players' side, following up their recent executive jaw session in Pebble Beach, Calif., stands ready to make a substantive proposal at tomorrow's talks.

According to one source familiar with what the union cobbled together in Pebble Beach, the key components might include, for the first time, a provision for a so-called franchise player. Aside to real puck nuts: Your faithful chronicler suggested precisely that element, as a means of kick-starting talks, in a Feb. 28 posting on HFboards.com

Hey kpd/hoh

Salary cap of $42 million (includes $39.8 million in salary and $2.2 million in benefits).

Salary floor of $34 million.

Franchise player, with neither salary nor benefits to be included in $42 million cap figure, but club to pay 50 percent tax.

Unrestricted free agency lowered to age 27 from 31.

Entry-level salaries to be capped at $1.2 million (including performance bonuses) per season.

Qualifying offers for restricted free agents lowered to 75 percent (from current position of 110 or 100 percent, based on player's existing salary).

Five-year limit on all individual contracts (currently no term restrictions).

Team revenue sharing, of varying percentages, during regular season and playoffs.

http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/articles/2005/04/03/raised_stakes_for_sanderson?pg=2

What about the salary rollback, major issue if it is included or not.