GDT: Boston Bruin's @ Detroit Red Wings - 8 EST - NBCSN

[RedWingzz]

Don't forget Nielsen and his 5.2 mil cap hit

Also signed while we were a playoff team. Next.

It was and is still a terrible contract. I like Nielsen, but he's not worth 5.25. We should have let someone else overpay.

 

[jkutswings]

Because they don't want to be the Oilers and Sabres and sell off too much, too fast which ruined the kids and compete level.

Sabres media talked about this in great detail. KH doesn;t want to be stupid and make the same mistakes that will ultimately set this team back an additional 30 years in a "rebuild"

You're not paying the salary, so why are you so hurt over it?

Not wanting to use <Strategy A> is fine. But that doesn't in any way excuse a lousy execution of <Strategy B>.

Had Ken Holland done a masterful job of keeping things afloat while the next core of kids grew up, he'd be a hero, even by fans who like drafting at the top. But instead, he's gotten a terrible ROI on the roster he's assembled, so let the guy take some well deserved heat for poor implementation of what you deem to be a good plan.

 

[jkutswings]

Also signed while we were a playoff team. Next.

He could be signed by the defending Cup champs, and if he's not performing to his contract, the GM deserves at least a little shade thrown his way.

 

[Dotter]

Wings have 14 UFA contracts falling off the books through the next 4 years. How long does a rebuild take in the best case scenario?

I think 8 years is best case scenario. That's what it took for the Pens who drafted not only elite talent, but fell into drafting the best generational talent the NHL has seen in years.

 

[Red Stanley]

He could be signed by the defending Cup champs, and if he's not performing to his contract, the GM deserves at least a little shade thrown his way.

Entirely beside my point.

 

[Redder Winger]

Boston's goal was on AA.

Give Coach Blashill credit for know AA doesn't deserve the ice time. Too bad he is pressured into playing the plug. AA whiny ass needs to go. He doesn't deserve more than 8 minutes a night.

Green passes to nobody.
That goal is on a lot of guys.
Green. Zetterberg. Athanasiou. Kronwall.

 

[Redder Winger]

What is wrong with you? What is wrong with people on this board. My god!

What has Glendening done tonight to make you make this stupid comment? He's played harder than anyone else on this ****ing team tonight. Him and Helm. Tell your fancy boys to give half his effort every night and I guarantee they'll be on the ice late in games trying to hold on. But until they stop floating around afraid of getting hit they sit their asses on the bench when there are important minutes to play.

That icing that cost the team the game-tying goal was pretty bad.

 

[Winger98]

I'm not looking for a reason. I already know why. It's been beat to death on many different threads.

Then you wouldn't be pushing this narrative that they tore things down too fast.

Both Gator and Helm were signed while were still a playoff team. So you got Daley and ... not accounting for the people who've been traded? Let's not confuse the issue of how badly the team was put together for the PURPOSE of staying in the playoffs with are we rebuilding right now, please. Still waiting for proof that none of these events were not foreseen by management.

Christ, Red, how many double negatives do you have to use? I'm old, tired, and...old.

If you want to argue that Detroit management just had the sheer lack of foresight to see this team trending downwards and therefore lacked the ability to make any move that would make any sense seeing that downward trend, I guess go for it? I can see an argument for it, but that doesn't exactly cast Holland & Co. in the best light.

And if Holland is still building for the playoffs...he's not rebuilding. He's willing to sell off pieces when it all hits the fan and his experiment is shown to be a failure, so there's that. But there's still that lack of foresight thing, and the nearly delusional nature of the actions that led to the failed experiment.

As I said, he doesn't get a free pass on the Gator and Helm signings for me because they were clearly bad. This team, despite making the playoffs, was bad and trending downward. You can absolve him of responsibility for looking past the next day on the calendar, but I'm not going to.

 

[Pavels Dog]

What’s this team’s record in 3-on-3? They’re embarrassing as hell to watch there.

Why does Larkin never start overtime? He works his ass off to carry this team and gets to watch the beloved vets drop another one.

Larkin should start everything, play in all important situations and get the kind of responsibility and icetime a guy like Barkov gets in Florida. He works 10x harder than anyone else on the team right now, seems to be the only one truly driving offense, plus he’s doing really well most of the time defensively and on faceoffs.

 

[Run the Jewels]

That loser point though. So many loser points, could come back to haunt us. I remember some forum posters holding up Boston as an example of Ken Holland's rebuild on the fly gone right. Man, that is not a team I would view fondly. Yes they are better than us - low hurdle there - but they really don't have anything that makes you feel good about their future. They do draft better than us - again, low hurdle - but I don't see them being seriously competitive anytime soon. I just can't imagine holding that up as the one example of a team who succeeded doing it Ken Holland's preferred way.

 

[dragonballgtz]

It's actually the smartest way to rebuild. Give the young players hope and something to play for. I doubt Kenny really thought this team was a PO team. He set it up this way to fail. For picks. For rebuilding.

He just didn't send you a private message on HFboards to let you know... that why your mad?

My sarcasm meter must be broken cause there is no way in hell KH set this team up to get picks. He might get something for Green this and then maybe something for Nyquist next year but who else after that? All other forwards are grinders who are overpaid and have at least 3+ more years to their contract after this year. So in 3 years or so we can get more draft picks?

On defense it's even worse...not really anyone worth any value.

Both Gator and Helm were signed while were still a playoff team. So you got Daley and ... not accounting for the people who've been traded? Let's not confuse the issue of how badly the team was put together for the PURPOSE of staying in the playoffs with are we rebuilding right now, please. Still waiting for proof that none of these events were not foreseen by management.

And they were signed to long term contracts after losing our #1 center. That #1 center who dragged Abby to his two best seasons. Now not only does KH waste money by overspending on those two, but he sings a "past their prime", KH thinks players are past their prime after 32 years of age, meh 2nd line center to $5.2M to replace him. This new center has only hit 50 points twice in his career and 20G twice in 10 years in the league.

Yes KH was trying to make the playoffs with these moves.

 

[Red Stanley]

Christ, Red, how many double negatives do you have to use? I'm old, tired, and...old.

I'm sorry

If you want to argue that Detroit management just had the sheer lack of foresight to see this team trending downwards and therefore lacked the ability to make any move that would make any sense seeing that downward trend, I guess go for it? I can see an argument for it, but that doesn't exactly cast Holland & Co. in the best light.

I'm arguing just the opposite. In fact, no special insight was needed to realize the team had been trending down for years and would eventually miss. It also wasn't all that clear cut whether we'd miss the year that we did before it started.

And if Holland is still building for the playoffs...he's not rebuilding. He's willing to sell off pieces when it all hits the fan and his experiment is shown to be a failure, so there's that. But there's still that lack of foresight thing, and the nearly delusional nature of the actions that led to the failed experiment.

In light of how bad this team was last year, I don't see how signing Daley, Witkowsky and Booth constitutes building for the playoffs. In the past year I've heard Holland talk about wanting to return to the playoffs as soon as possible (why wouldn't he?) and also building through the draft, integrating young talent faster and about the long-term future of the team in general. I'm sorry, I just don't get these claims of delusion based on what he says or does ... yet.

As I said, he doesn't get a free pass on the Gator and Helm signings for me because they were clearly bad. This team, despite making the playoffs, was bad and trending downward. You can absolve him of responsibility for looking past the next day on the calendar, but I'm not going to.

I'm not absolving him of that at all. He's responsible for the current state of the team. I also don't see why that precludes him from having anticipated it or prevents him from currently working to correct it. Hamstrings him because of previous decisions made under different circumstances, for sure.

 

[Run the Jewels]

How much of that payroll comes from before we missed the playoffs? To lump two distinct periods together and present them as the same thing in order to say we're not rebuilding is disingenuous.

Eh, there were a few of us who could see the writing on the wall and complained about all the awful contracts. We complained about the Howard, Abdelkader and Helm contracts in particular. None of these guys were essential. They could have been traded for draft picks who would be hitting their pro years right now. The cap would be in much better shape so you can go after free agents or be a trade partner, something Holland never did until last year when we were eliminated from the playoffs.

So I'd disagree on giving Holland a pass for signing terrible contacts because the streak was still alive. It's the same thinking that resulted in them having Clearly, Bert, Samuelsson, Tootoo and Eaves on the roster with Nyquist in Grand Rapids. Just because people were willing to defend it doesn't mean it was the right decision.

 

[Red Stanley]

And they were signed to long term contracts after losing our #1 center. That #1 center who dragged Abby to his two best seasons. Now not only does KH waste money by overspending on those two, but he sings a "past their prime", KH thinks players are past their prime after 32 years of age, meh 2nd line center to $5.2M to replace him. This new center has only hit 50 points twice in his career and 20G twice in 10 years in the league.

Yes KH was trying to make the playoffs with these moves.

Right. Different circumstances. Different priorities. What has happened since we missed? We signed Trevor Daley to a reasonable contract in anticipation of losing Green to a trade and perhaps both Kronwall and Ericsson to injury/retirement. Oh the f***ing horror. Rebuild theory rejected.

 

[HIFE]

That loser point though. So many loser points, could come back to haunt us. I remember some forum posters holding up Boston as an example of Ken Holland's rebuild on the fly gone right. Man, that is not a team I would view fondly. Yes they are better than us - low hurdle there - but they really don't have anything that makes you feel good about their future. They do draft better than us - again, low hurdle - but I don't see them being seriously competitive anytime soon. I just can't imagine holding that up as the one example of a team who succeeded doing it Ken Holland's preferred way.

I was applauding Boston before the game but in the big picture you are so, so right. Their core of Krejci, Bergeron, Chara, and Marchand are past their prime and there's no way to hide it. I've never seen Chara make so many mistakes in one game. Also didn't realize Marchand will be 30 in the spring. They've got a great piece in Pastrnak, some good young defense, but not a whole lot else. With Rask at 7.5 and contracts like Backes- I'm curious when they become proactive about their situation. May be they'll see Detroit as an example to avoid going down with the ship.

 

[theYman]

Wow this team sucks so bad they can't even properly tank. Loser points are meaningless. When is Blashill gone? Hard to believe he isn't fired already when the team plays like this at home. How can any sane person think this good doing the same bad things over and over. We've basically lost every homestand so far this year. I mean really??

 

[Red Stanley]

Eh, there were a few of us who could see the writing on the wall and complained about all the awful contracts. We complained about the Howard, Abdelkader and Helm contracts in particular. None of these guys were essential. They could have been traded for draft picks who would be hitting their pro years right now. The cap would be in much better shape so you can go after free agents or be a trade partner, something Holland never did until last year when we were eliminated from the playoffs.

So I'd disagree on giving Holland a pass for signing terrible contacts because the streak was still alive. It's the same thinking that resulted in them having Clearly, Bert, Samuelsson, Tootoo and Eaves on the roster with Nyquist in Grand Rapids. Just because people were willing to defend it doesn't mean it was the right decision.

I'm not giving anyone a pass and I'm not defending the contracts. I only ask that the difference in circumstance be acknowledged when making specific claims, otherwise no honest discussion can take place.

 

[Dotter]

My sarcasm meter must be broken cause there is no way in hell KH set this team up to get picks. He might get something for Green this and then maybe something for Nyquist next year but who else after that? All other forwards are grinders who are overpaid and have at least 3+ more years to their contract after this year. So in 3 years or so we can get more draft picks?

On defense it's even worse...not really anyone worth any value.

He just acquired a ton of draft picks last draft and you say he can't do it?
We already have a bunch set up for the 2018 draft (and will be getting more). And you say he can't do it?

Wings are going to have too many prospects... as any NHL club can only have maximum of 90 contracts I believe.

Wings have 14 UFA contracts falling off the books through the next 4 years. How long does a rebuild take in the best case scenario?

I think 8 years is best case scenario. That's what it took for the Pens who drafted not only elite talent, but fell into drafting the best generational talent the NHL has seen in years.

If Wings win the lottery and find an elite center in the next couple years, in 3 to 4 years they'll be what TMLs are today.

 

[turkleton85]

just saw the replay, at least the effort was there, but the skill is just not. The few talented AND fast players you have, they don't play in overtime. the eternal struggle to put the right players into the right situations

 

[PB37]

I was applauding Boston before the game but in the big picture you are so, so right. Their core of Krejci, Bergeron, Chara, and Marchand are past their prime and there's no way to hide it. I've never seen Chara make so many mistakes in one game. Also didn't realize Marchand will be 30 in the spring. They've got a great piece in Pastrnak, some good young defense, but not a whole lot else. With Rask at 7.5 and contracts like Backes- I'm curious when they become proactive about their situation. May be they'll see Detroit as an example to avoid going down with the ship.

I think both you and the poster you're replying too are sleeping big time on Boston's retooling.

Bergeron is playing at a .82 PPG clip, slightly above his average while putting up one of his finer defensive seasons. He isn't slowing down and both the stats and eye test shows it.

Marchand is not past his prime, he's directly in it and has never looked better. He was over a PPG last season and now he's putting up an even better season than last, jumping from 1.08 PPG to 1.22.

Krejci and Chara are slowing down, but Chara is still the best PK dman in the league and a legit top 4 guy on 99 percent of the teams in this league. Krejci is still a solid 2nd line center. .80 PPG clip, but his injuries are starting to affect his game. The team looks a lot better with him on the ice, as we found out earlier this year.

McAvoy is one of the three best dmen under 20 and Carlo is a top 4 guy at the age of 21 and in his second season. Krug, 26 years old, and one of the best offensive facilitators from the backend in the league: 8th in PPG after a slow start coming back from a jaw injury. Matt Grzlecyk, 23, has impressed so far in his first 11 games with his all around game and puck moving skills. He may not ever be a Torey Krug offensively, but his defensive game is much better than Krug's at the same age.

As you mentioned, Pasta is one of the best young RWers in the game. But here's where you're missing the boat on Boston: their rookie forwards in Heinen ( .62 PPG, 22yrs old ), DeBrusk ( .54 PPG, 20 yrs old ) and Bjork (.47 PPG, 22 yrs old ) are having solid 1st years. Boston's rookies are accounting for 1/3 of Boston's goal totals before last night's game.

We have some internal issues to take care of, like the deadweight contract in Beleskey, who has completely crapped the bed. Backes is still a valuable player on the ice and in the lockerroom, but as you said, may be a bit pricey at 6. Rask can run hot and cold and for a number 1 goalie making top coin, he's not on as much as we would like.

Overall, the Bruins are moving in the right direction. We have two elite wingers, an all world Selke center still at the top of his game, 3 rookie forwards on pace for 39 to 50 points, a defense that hosts a 19 year old future number 1 dman playing like he's in his prime, a 21 year old defensive stalwart, and one of the best offensive dmen in the league at 26 years old. Our farm system is in a good place as well; I just don't have the time right now to get into it. The present and future of the Bruins is looking really solid.

 

[Oddbob]

When did they rename NBC, to the National Boston Corporation Sports Network?!

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Can't even tank right with all these OTLs.

 

[Heaton]

Which aging depth players has he signed to lifetime deals in the past year? Which veterans have been signed since the last trade deadline that we're overpaying? Two years ago this team was a playoff team. Then it wasn't, even though on paper it appeared they very well could be. Again, what makes you think management hasn't planned for this eventuality? That's what the "didn't really mean it" argument boils down to and the fact that numbers are being thrown in from the time they were still a playoff team tells me the argument is weaksauce.

Because none of their actions or words support it.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Can't even tank right with all these OTLs.

It drives me nuts. Going 1-9 and yet managing to pick up 4 loser points is almost admirable. We're 11W, 13L, 7OTL on the season. 7 OTL is tied for the league lead (a 5-way tie!).

I just watched the condensed game because I missed some of yesterday. Larkin's goal was a beauty. Great speed, good move, perfect finish on the backhand that Rask wasn't even close to. He and Mantha looked like they had good chances, but most of the time couldn't finish. Larkin certainly finished on that play. I can't believe we lost so immediately in overtime.

 

[The Flying Octopus]

“We lost bc our process wasn’t good”

Trash


The process the process the process

Let me ask you jeffy- what is the process ?