Player Discussion Bobby Ryan Part VI

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Stylizer1

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And what does Ryan have to do with this conversation??I agree Ryan hasnt been good at all this season .But you two are just talking nonsense about Spezza after he came back from those injuries he became a liabilty 5 on 5 .And was a diminished asset.His 33 goals are a nice stat line ,but in reality he has been a slow one way player for quite some time:nod:
You rip a guy who still puts up points but give excuses for a guy who really sucks. How was he a liability? Because his plus minus? At the end he was on a bad team with no direction but carried everyone regardless. He has proven if you give him good line mates he is a productive player. Give him garbage and he is not as good but is still one of the best on the team.
 

topshelf15

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He did it for years in Ottawa. When you join a new team the dynamic changes and so does comfortability. New coach new system different players where as in Ottawa he was a foundation piece who had chemistry with the best Dman in the league and almost anyone you put on his line not named Ryan.
Yep ,he was also one of the teams most highest risk player ,towards the end he became much too easy to play against .What little speed he had had left him ,his backcheck was nonexsistant.In short he was far too risky a player to play top 6 mins on a young rebuilding team .With some younger more speedy options we had coming .Dallas has gotten some good mins out of him ,but it has come at a cost of actually being able to have a consistant team.And not just some that need to score 6 goals to win
 

topshelf15

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You rip a guy who still puts up points but give excuses for a guy who really sucks. How was he a liability? Because his plus minus? At the end he was on a bad team with no direction but carried everyone regardless. He has proven if you give him good line mates he is a productive player. Give him garbage and he is not as good but is still one of the best on the team.
Please stop ,Spezza was done here .No amount of revisionist history will change this ,its far easier to move around wingers .Than to try and move a weak one way center:nod:
 

Stylizer1

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Yep ,he was also one of the teams most highest risk player ,towards the end he became much too easy to play against .What little speed he had had left him ,his backcheck was nonexsistant.In short he was far too risky a player to play top 6 mins on a young rebuilding team .With some younger more speedy options we had coming .Dallas has gotten some good mins out of him ,but it has come at a cost of actually being able to have a consistant team.And not just some that need to score 6 goals to win
But that's not his fault. On a rebuilding team he would have inflated the scoring numbers of his line mates resulting in the team overpaying like with Michalek and Greening.
 

Burrowsaurus

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Yep ,he was also one of the teams most highest risk player ,towards the end he became much too easy to play against .What little speed he had had left him ,his backcheck was nonexsistant.In short he was far too risky a player to play top 6 mins on a young rebuilding team .With some younger more speedy options we had coming .Dallas has gotten some good mins out of him ,but it has come at a cost of actually being able to have a consistant team.And not just some that need to score 6 goals to win

Acquiring spezza has not cost them a consistent team. You're willing to say atrocious goaltending and atrocious defence has to do with more than just the goaltending and fldefence. Yet TEAM CONSISTENCY (inconsistency) is down to only Jason spezza simply being present.
 

Stylizer1

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Yeah, Bobby Ryan and his 24 points can do one...

Pretty sure our cheap deal Pyatt is only a point or two below Ryan.
Put Pyatt on Spezza's wing and the guy is going to get 50 points.

Ryan is a black hole and no matter who you put with him he is going to sulk/suck.
 

topshelf15

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Acquiring spezza has not cost them a consistent team. You're willing to say atrocious goaltending and atrocious defence has to do with more than just the goaltending and fldefence. Yet TEAM CONSISTENCY is down to only Jason spezza simply being present.
Having weak defensive forwards in your top 9 for sure would have an impact on your defense and goaltending ,again Spezza is a very slow/ weak defensive forward. The game now and has been about speed and have fast two way players both at forward and on defense.Having to play a player like Spezza top 6 mins it would easily take away from any two way game that teams need to play
 

topshelf15

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He was the best center this team ever had and was when he was traded.
In the offensive zone and on the PP this was true ,everywhere else he was likely the worse .Like I have repeatedly mentioned here ,we didnt have the support up front and on the blueline to support his biggest weakness.Just as Dallas now doesnt have :nod:
 

Burrowsaurus

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Spezzas defensive "weaknesses" are so vastly overblown in insane. He was a number one center. It's flat out difficult to be a one way player in that position. You need to do pretty much everything based on who you're playing against.
 

topshelf15

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Spezzas defensive "weaknesses" are so vastly overblown in insane. He was a number one center. It's flat out difficult to be a one way player in that position. You need to do pretty much everything based on who you're playing against.
No it is not ,Spezza was and still is not a two way player .In his youth before the lost step and physical decline ,you would have been correct .But now and his last few seasons with us ,this was the main reason as to why we moved him out when we did :nod:
 

Burrowsaurus

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Spezzas defensive "weaknesses" are so vastly overblown in insane. He was a number one center. It's flat out difficult to be a one way player in that position. You need to do pretty much everything based on who you're playing against.
 

topshelf15

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Spezzas defensive "weaknesses" are so vastly overblown in insane. He was a number one center. It's flat out difficult to be a one way player in that position. You need to do pretty much everything based on who you're playing against.
Yep and Spezza has shown he cant do this anymore,in anywhere else than the offensive zone .This isnt some i hate Spezza thing ,its about being truthful .He isnt a top line center anymore,and we all saw this here in Ottawa .Yet you seem to think otherwise
 

Burrowsaurus

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Yep and Spezza has shown he cant do this anymore,in anywhere else than the offensive zone .This isnt some i hate Spezza thing ,its about being truthful .He isnt a top line center anymore,and we all saw this here in Ottawa .Yet you seem to think otherwise

I've said like 3 times that he would not need to be the "top line center". Although with slot eline mates. No reason why he can't be putting up 65-70 points.

Turris spezza brassard. Split the minute however you want.

I would rather have 7.5 going to spezza for the next 2 years. Than going to Ryan for the next five.
 

topshelf15

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I've said like 3 times that he would not need to be the "top line center". Although with slot eline mates. No reason why he can't be putting up 65-70 points.

Turris spezza brassard. Split the minute however you want.

I would rather have 7.5 going to spezza for the next 2 years. Than going to Ryan for the next five.
Spezza,s problem is like any offense first type of player,he either plays top 6 mins or he doesnt play enough to use his offensive capablities.

We need a real top line center that can play effectively in all three zones and against the very best of opposition.In short we just dont have the room to play Spezza in the top 6 enough to make his offensive game matter,at the cost of losing our forwards defensive structure.Ryan ,is what he is and in a way is very much like Spezza.But living with him as a winger is far easier than dealing with these exact same issues than it is as a top 6 center
 

Sens Rule

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Spezzas defensive "weaknesses" are so vastly overblown in insane. He was a number one center. It's flat out difficult to be a one way player in that position. You need to do pretty much everything based on who you're playing against.

Spezza at his worst playing with a nagging back is still better than Ryan at his best playing with Getzlaf and Perry.

We should not make a trade to get Spezza back today.... but anyone that does not realize Spezza today in Dallas is better than Ryan ever was is nuts.

Spezza straight up makes everyone on the ice with him better. Ryan does not do that. Spezza makes smart plays all over the ice and some doozy gambles that do not pay off from time to time.

Spezza doesn't back check like Mike Fisher or Pageau but he also "seems" like he is slower and not "trying" when he is not that slow and he is being effective enough.

Please people stop with this negative stuff about Spezza. Spezza is still probably better than either Turris and Brassard. Whatever defence you give up with Spezza, he more than makes up for it by making ANY wingers he plays with score significantly more.

Spezza is an elite playmaker his entire career and he has a lethal shot. Not being "perfect" as a player does not make him bad. Every star player can not be Alfredsson or Zetterberg.
 

pm88

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And Dallas is where again ??They are terrible defensively and have been for quite some time .With Dallas not be able to score at will ,and win games 6 to 5 .This becomes even more problematic ,as its hard enough to score in this league .But to base your team around be able to always outscore the opposition has Dallas stuck in no mans land now .

Spezza is not a player that can do much other than score with easy mins ,and now with him having 12 goals this season even that has failed him .So no thank you to Spezza he was done when we moved him and even moreso now :nod:


It was time for him to move on but him at his worse seasons was still more productive than Ryan is. Spezza was done here but Ryan is as well. Give him one more season and then ship him out if it's more of the same. This is a business after all and last I checked our investment in this player isn't benefitting us whatsoever. Move on

It was tough moving on from Spezza because he was a big part of this organization's successful years, it was tough seeing guys like Fisher, Hossa etc go because they played such big roles for this team for so many years. I wouldn't miss Ryan if we let him go, what has he done for this team that's so great anyways? What's a defining moment has Rya had for the Ottawa Senators that would make it so tough for them to move on?

Is he a clutch player? no
Is he a productive player? he's OK, certainly hasn't played at an elite level
Is he a good guy? Absolutely he is but you don't pay him tons of money just to be a 'good guy'. There are some expectations that come with it as well
 
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Nac Mac Feegle

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I've said like 3 times that he would not need to be the "top line center". Although with slot eline mates. No reason why he can't be putting up 65-70 points.

Turris spezza brassard. Split the minute however you want.

I would rather have 7.5 going to spezza for the next 2 years. Than going to Ryan for the next five.

lol, that's pretty much a no-brainer. :laugh:

Hell, I would take Chiasson or Greening or <insert any name here> at 7.5 for the next 2 years over Ryan for the next 5. Just the difference in years makes any switch a win for us.
 

jason2020

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lol, that's pretty much a no-brainer. :laugh:

Hell, I would take Chiasson or Greening or <insert any name here> at 7.5 for the next 2 years over Ryan for the next 5. Just the difference in years makes any switch a win for us.

People have enough trouble with the deal Ryan got if Ottawa gave Chiasson or Greening 7 million there would be riots.
 

Stylizer1

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I don't want to pile on the guy, but 24 points, c'mon...
Let's all hope that at the beginning of the season management told Ryan they were not protecting him and he is choosing to really suck so not to get picked by Vegas. Then he shows up next season and is a 50/50 guy.
 

topshelf15

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Iam done defending Ryan,he has failed big time this season .But i still have no issues with what i have said about Spezza.He was done here ,and in reality we dont miss him at all .Points are nice but we need a real top line center ,and he isnt and wasnt one when he left .
 
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