Bobby Clarke -- 1972

Reks

Registered User
Oct 23, 2006
247
2
Well, in the Summit 1974 Rick Ley attacked Kharlamov after the game six was over. In a minute Kharlamov's face was a bloody mess. We all know that Ley got applauded in the media and even in the Senate. Not a surprise that Clarke is still a hero for many people.
 

espo*

Guest
You know how ridiculous you sound? It's about as obsurd as some Russian defending a hypothetical attack against Crosby because of what happened in 1972.

Both teams were dirty as heck, but it absolutely blows my mind that Canada (as a nation) cherishes such an event where such a blatant act of cheating took place. There's nothing worse than a premeditated attack against a key member of the opposition - especially one ordered from the coaching staff.

Had the U.S. done something like that in Basketball (even during the cold war), I can honestly say we'd view the victory as tainted. Not that we'd have to resort to cheating with our best players to win.....but you get the picture.

:shakehead

i sound absurd? how about listening to the same crap year after year after year about what Clarke did yet know what i know about how the Russians have played and acted over the years?Like in Piestany for example.

yet i never hear their fans express shame over that stupidity on their part and what's more important i don't hear it brought up by our fans every single damn time Russia plays a freaking game against us..........yet all you guys still can't stop talking about Clarke. it's 2006...........the games OVER.There is nothing worse then a premeditated act,you're right..........how come you guys all try to forget your pre-meditated attacks then? The little angels.....i'm sick of it.You're also right that you guys have played dirty along with Canada over the years,now if only that would become an accepted part of your fans attitude because it's true and we all know it no matter how you want to deny it.yet we're still the goons,always and always.

The day this double standard stops is the day i'll stop telling it like it is concerning your teams nasty little tricks over the years and the day i'll be-rate Clarke.

But i bet i'll be waiting for a long time.I guess that means i'll be absurd a long time too,i can live with that if nothing changes.I'd rather that then the alternative.
 

Zine

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
11,954
1,768
Rostov-on-Don
i sound absurd? how about listening to the same crap year after year after year about what Clarke did yet know what i know about how the Russians have played and acted over the years?Like in Piestany for example.

yet i never hear their fans express shame over that stupidity on their part and what's more important i don't hear it brought up by our fans every single damn time Russia plays a freaking game against us..........yet all you guys still can't stop talking about Clarke. it's 2006...........the games OVER.There is nothing worse then a premeditated act,you're right..........how come you guys all try to forget your pre-meditated attacks then? The little angels.....i'm sick of it.You're also right that you guys have played dirty along with Canada over the years,now if only that would become an accepted part of your fans attitude because it's true and we all know it no matter how you want to deny it.yet we're still the goons,always and always.

The day this double standard stops is the day i'll stop telling it like it is concerning your teams nasty little tricks over the years and the day i'll be-rate Clarke.

But i bet i'll be waiting for a long time.I guess that means i'll be absurd a long time too,i can live with that if nothing changes.I'd rather that then the alternative.

cyclops, breathe in..breathe out. Good, now that you're calm down find a post of anybody justifying what the Russians did at Piestany. Do it. I doubt you're gonna find any - unlike the "Clarke is my hero" type nonesense seen in this thread.

Sure the Russians were dirty; nobody denies that - but those actions aren't 'celebrated' by Russian fans today. What's celebrated is the old creative style of play.
To a large extent its just the opposite in Canada. Heck, as Reks stated, Rick Ley's goon job was celebrated in the Candian Senate back then.:shakehead What else can you say when a cementhead dinosaur bigot like Don Cherry has sky-high ratings on TV.....funded by public tax dollars of all things.:biglaugh:

There's your difference. I fail to see the double standard you talk about.
 

Oilslick941611

slapshot into the empty net...utterly irrelevant
Jul 4, 2006
13,715
12,517
Ottawa
The Russians were not and are not saints, they did more than thier fair share of dirty and violent acts, and yet they are the first to cry foul.

yes the Russians are magicans with sticks, they can turn hockey sticks into axes and lumberjack like no other.
 

espo*

Guest
cyclops, breathe in..breathe out. Good, now that you're calm down find a post of anybody justifying what the Russians did at Piestany. Do it. I doubt you're gonna find any - unlike the "Clarke is my hero" type nonesense seen in this thread.

Sure the Russians were dirty; nobody denies that - but those actions aren't 'celebrated' by Russian fans today. What's celebrated is the old creative style of play.
To a large extent its just the opposite in Canada. Heck, as Reks stated, Rick Ley's goon job was celebrated in the Candian Senate back then.:shakehead What else can you say when a cementhead dinosaur bigot like Don Cherry has sky-high ratings on TV.....funded by public tax dollars of all things.:biglaugh:

There's your difference. I fail to see the double standard you talk about.

I'm breathing fine.i have no doubt you would fail to see the double standard because you just do what most of their fans do,shut your eyes and pretend nothing ever happened.

You're right,Russians don't celebrate Piestany because for them Piestany was'nt their fault and they did nothing wrong,just like they see everything concerning Russian hockey.Their attitude is and always has been...."it was'nt us".Even today in 2006 they've never done anything wrong and it's only Canada that has EVER played goon hockey and goons it up up,even today you see that attitude all the time here.

Nobody denies Russia has played dirty in the past? sure Canadians don't because we all know they have lot's of times.But Russian fans? I think you're the first guy i've ever seen that admits it.if you can find more please tell them to show themselves here because they are as rare as a sighting of a t-rex.

I'm sick of the goon thing .And the reason i'm sick of it is because i know how Russian players and teams have played in the past and sometimes still do(like anyone else)


Once again,why should i care what Clarke did to Kharlamov when i still have to listen to us stilll being labeled as goons in todays hockey when i have witnessed what i have witnessed from Russian hockey teams behaviour in the past? You are yet to give me one good reason.

penance for Clarke? No way,i've seen too many Russian players and teams play dirty.if i had never witnessed it i'd do as you wish.

Think what you want,it's up to you.I'll think how i want.
 

Oilslick941611

slapshot into the empty net...utterly irrelevant
Jul 4, 2006
13,715
12,517
Ottawa
I'm breathing fine.i have no doubt you would fail to see the double standard because you just do what most of their fans do,shut your eyes and pretend nothing ever happened.

You're right,Russians don't celebrate Piestany because for them Piestany was'nt their fault and they did nothing wrong,just like they see everything concerning Russian hockey.Their attitude is and always has been...."it was'nt us".Even today in 2006 they've never done anything wrong and it's only Canada that has EVER played goon hockey and goons it up up,even today you see that attitude all the time here.

Nobody denies Russia has played dirty in the past? sure Canadians don't because we all know they have lot's of times.But Russian fans? I think you're the first guy i've ever seen that admits it.if you can find more please tell them to show themselves here because they are as rare as a sighting of a t-rex.

I'm sick of the goon thing .And the reason i'm sick of it is because i know how Russian players and teams have played in the past and sometimes still do(like anyone else)


Once again,why should i care what Clarke did to Kharlamov when i still have to listen to us stilll being labeled as goons in todays hockey when i have witnessed what i have witnessed from Russian hockey teams behaviour in the past? You are yet to give me one good reason.

penance for Clarke? No way,i've seen too many Russian players and teams play dirty.if i had never witnessed it i'd do as you wish.

Think what you want,it's up to you.I'll think how i want.

:clap:

well said
 

Bixby Snyder

IBTFAD
May 11, 2005
3,495
1,629
Albuquerque
www.comc.com
cyclops, breathe in..breathe out. Good, now that you're calm down find a post of anybody justifying what the Russians did at Piestany. Do it. I doubt you're gonna find any - unlike the "Clarke is my hero" type nonesense seen in this thread.

Sure the Russians were dirty; nobody denies that - but those actions aren't 'celebrated' by Russian fans today. What's celebrated is the old creative style of play.
To a large extent its just the opposite in Canada. Heck, as Reks stated, Rick Ley's goon job was celebrated in the Candian Senate back then.:shakehead What else can you say when a cementhead dinosaur bigot like Don Cherry has sky-high ratings on TV.....funded by public tax dollars of all things.:biglaugh:

There's your difference. I fail to see the double standard you talk about.

It' very simple. when Canadians do it it's just good old fashioned Canadian hockey when everyone else does it it's dirty and dishonorable.
 

Oilslick941611

slapshot into the empty net...utterly irrelevant
Jul 4, 2006
13,715
12,517
Ottawa
cyclops, breathe in..breathe out. Good, now that you're calm down find a post of anybody justifying what the Russians did at Piestany. Do it. I doubt you're gonna find any - unlike the "Clarke is my hero" type nonesense seen in this thread.

Sure the Russians were dirty; nobody denies that - but those actions aren't 'celebrated' by Russian fans today. What's celebrated is the old creative style of play.
To a large extent its just the opposite in Canada. Heck, as Reks stated, Rick Ley's goon job was celebrated in the Candian Senate back then.:shakehead What else can you say when a cementhead dinosaur bigot like Don Cherry has sky-high ratings on TV.....funded by public tax dollars of all things.:biglaugh:

There's your difference. I fail to see the double standard you talk about.


gotta remember too, different times, back then EVERYONE in the free world hated the Russians. not that i care, im still not particularly fond of russian sports or poltics.
 

Sampe

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
2,648
2
Vantaa
To prove yourself a winner, the competition must be fair. Otherwise you prove nothing. I have never watched a sports event featuring 100% fair competition, so every single victory I've ever witnessed has proved absolutely nothing. As someone else already pointed out, life on this planet just ain't fair.

Fortunately, by aiming at fair competition we can often suspend our disbelief in a moment of victory and pretend we've just done something great. An excellent asset to have in a not-so-perfect world.
 

MassiveHabs

Registered User
Jan 10, 2005
2,803
0
Dartmouth, NS
Player from any country play dirty?!?!?! NEVER!:sarcasm:

Bobby Clarke's slash was dirty no doubt, but it wasn't as bad as some would make it out to be, you gotta remember that he was a broad street bully, and Im guess if you watched the flyers during that time it wasn't really a surprise what he did. Does that make it any less wrong or right; no, but it is a part of sports, and any team/country will have used it at some point. Clarke was not known for his clean style of play and I'm sure that it wasnt the first time he slashed someone with "intent" That said, I still believe Bobby Clarke was one helluva player and he played his game and it no doubt pissed many people off in the process.
 

Zine

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
11,954
1,768
Rostov-on-Don
gotta remember too, different times, back then EVERYONE in the free world hated the Russians. not that i care, im still not particularly fond of russian sports or poltics.

But this exemplifies the stereotypical neanderthal Canadian hockey mindset - which you and cyclops pretends doesn't exist.

Trust me....the Soviets were far more of a threat to the United States, and in no way shape or form would a cheap shot to a Russian athlete warrant a celebration in the US Senate.

That's some sick crazy stuff.:shakehead
 

Zine

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
11,954
1,768
Rostov-on-Don
I'm breathing fine.i have no doubt you would fail to see the double standard because you just do what most of their fans do,shut your eyes and pretend nothing ever happened.

You're right,Russians don't celebrate Piestany because for them Piestany was'nt their fault and they did nothing wrong,just like they see everything concerning Russian hockey.Their attitude is and always has been...."it was'nt us".Even today in 2006 they've never done anything wrong and it's only Canada that has EVER played goon hockey and goons it up up,even today you see that attitude all the time here.

Nobody denies Russia has played dirty in the past? sure Canadians don't because we all know they have lot's of times.But Russian fans? I think you're the first guy i've ever seen that admits it.if you can find more please tell them to show themselves here because they are as rare as a sighting of a t-rex.
I'm sick of the goon thing .And the reason i'm sick of it is because i know how Russian players and teams have played in the past and sometimes still do(like anyone else)


Once again,why should i care what Clarke did to Kharlamov when i still have to listen to us stilll being labeled as goons in todays hockey when i have witnessed what i have witnessed from Russian hockey teams behaviour in the past? You are yet to give me one good reason.

penance for Clarke? No way,i've seen too many Russian players and teams play dirty.if i had never witnessed it i'd do as you wish.

Think what you want,it's up to you.I'll think how i want.

And there you go again painting everybody with a broad brush. Who are these Russian fans you talk about -- the one's on an english speaking message board?:biglaugh: Yet, according to you, they represent the Soviet/Russian hockey mentality.

I think a lot more can be said about a country's hockey culture when a bigot like Don Cherry is voted one of the top 10 Candians ever - as opposed to a few jerks from a different country on a message board.

That's right....think what you want. Good job.:clap:
 

YMB29

Registered User
Sep 25, 2006
422
2
as for the video i have'nt watched it because i can't see it on this computer.Still would'nt change anything for me.
With your bias how could any evidence change your opinion?


i sound absurd? how about listening to the same crap year after year after year about what Clarke did yet know what i know about how the Russians have played and acted over the years?Like in Piestany for example.
Yes you are absurd for relating the two events that have little in common and were 15 years apart. And why are you so sure that the Soviets started the fight? Because Clown Cherry said so?


The little angels.....i'm sick of it.You're also right that you guys have played dirty along with Canada over the years,now if only that would become an accepted part of your fans attitude because it's true and we all know it no matter how you want to deny it.yet we're still the goons,always and always.
Yes Canadian teams will always be associated with goons. When have the Soviets played dirty? This was not their game. In all the old games that I watched, they played clean and showed patience and discipline when attacked by Canadians. Of course they also retaliated, but you can't blame them for that.
 

Oilslick941611

slapshot into the empty net...utterly irrelevant
Jul 4, 2006
13,715
12,517
Ottawa
With your bias how could any evidence change your opinion?



Yes you are absurd for relating the two events that have little in common and were 15 years apart. And why are you so sure that the Soviets started the fight? Because Clown Cherry said so?



Yes Canadian teams will always be associated with goons. When have the Soviets played dirty? This was not their game. In all the old games that I watched, they played clean and showed patience and discipline when attacked by Canadians. Of course they also retaliated, but you can't blame them for that.

WJC
1989
1999
2002
2003
2004
2005

thats just off the top of my head. From rewatching games from the those tournaments recently. In seniors, not so much dirty has much as diving prima donna's, the one that arent in the NHL anyway, they've been taught not to play like pany's. Once the new crop of Russians from those WJC teams get to the senior levels of play, im sure all levels of Russian Hockey play dirty.

The Russian stoped playing "beautiful creative hockey" a long time ago.
 

espo*

Guest
And there you go again painting everybody with a broad brush. Who are these Russian fans you talk about -- the one's on an english speaking message board?:biglaugh: Yet, according to you, they represent the Soviet/Russian hockey mentality.

I think a lot more can be said about a country's hockey culture when a bigot like Don Cherry is voted one of the top 10 Candians ever - as opposed to a few jerks from a different country on a message board.

That's right....think what you want. Good job.:clap:

I see em all the time.if you have'nt seen tons of fans from there just here on this board who are constantly lamenting Canadian goonery then you're blind and someone else must read you posts they think you'll be interested in and then you get them to type in your replies.God,just today some fan from there had the audacity to ask me in a tone of "who else" who i thoughh starts most hockey fights between canadian and european players..........like it was gospel that everyone knows as a fact like the earth is flat.It just galls the **** out of me.Can you imagine? It was like he thought i was questioning 2+2 equals 4.The nerve!!!

A few jerks? where are all these fans from there that think Canadian players are no worse the others and that Russian players are just as dirty and nasty as any others? They sure as hell are'nt here aside from you.They must say one thing when they post and tell you another(the truth) in P.M's.

As far as Cherry is concerned,i don't see how he is any worse of a bigot then the general attitude of so many of your fans here concerning players from anywhere else.Like i've mentioned before..........they don't even usually comment on the great plays and talent from players of other countries, said player seems to have to come from you know where for any of that treatment.When they do comment it's usually just to dive in with a negative remark.Hell,even cherry will give credit where credit is due.Who's really got the over bloated ethnocentrist view of their hockey players anyway?


Makes me wonder sometimes.


Anyway,the original point was that i don't shed any tears about what clarke did considering i've seen your teams players handiwork so many times over the years.I know it's never talked about and brought up here but that does'nt mean anything.I've seen it firsthand and that's enough for me.When they start to get graded and brought up on it by their own fans (not hide it like the the C.I.A does with sensitive documents) i'll change my attitude accordingly.

You're free to think as you think as am i.No-ones going to die over it.
 

Muscle Bob

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
3,287
0
Russia
www.russianhockeyfans.com
On a side note:

Bobby Clarke > Kharlamov

"Country:
United%20States.gif
"
Ok, I get it now :sarcasm:
 

YMB29

Registered User
Sep 25, 2006
422
2
You don't even have to look at his country. Just look at his name.


WJC
1989
1999
2002
2003
2004
2005

thats just off the top of my head. From rewatching games from the those tournaments recently. In seniors, not so much dirty has much as diving prima donna's, the one that arent in the NHL anyway, they've been taught not to play like pany's. Once the new crop of Russians from those WJC teams get to the senior levels of play, im sure all levels of Russian Hockey play dirty.

The Russian stoped playing "beautiful creative hockey" a long time ago.
I don't know much about WJC and I was talking about Soviet teams.
 

Reks

Registered User
Oct 23, 2006
247
2
I would say:

Kharlamov >> Clarke
Kharlamov = Lafleur

BTW both were victims of the goons like Clarke, Ferguson, Cherry etc

For example, during the 1978 Stanley Cup finals, Cherry ordered his players to put their sticks up when ever they encountered Lafleur.
 

espo*

Guest
With your bias how could any evidence change your opinion?



Yes you are absurd for relating the two events that have little in common and were 15 years apart. And why are you so sure that the Soviets started the fight? Because Clown Cherry said so?



Yes Canadian teams will always be associated with goons. When have the Soviets played dirty? This was not their game. In all the old games that I watched, they played clean and showed patience and discipline when attacked by Canadians. Of course they also retaliated, but you can't blame them for that.

to wit.

"we never do that"- "you're always goons"

Just another day at the office for them.
 

Zine

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
11,954
1,768
Rostov-on-Don
I see em all the time.if you have'nt seen tons of fans from there just here on this board who are constantly lamenting Canadian goonery then you're blind and someone else must read you posts they think you'll be interested in and then you get them to type in your replies.God,just today some fan from there had the audacity to ask me in a tone of "who else" who i thoughh starts most hockey fights between canadian and european players..........like it was gospel that everyone knows as a fact like the earth is flat.It just galls the **** out of me.Can you imagine? It was like he thought i was questioning 2+2 equals 4.The nerve!!!

A few jerks? where are all these fans from there that think Canadian players are no worse the others and that Russian players are just as dirty and nasty as any others? They sure as hell are'nt here aside from you.They must say one thing when they post and tell you another(the truth) in P.M's..

Just as I thought - judging Russian fans/hockey based on a handful of HF posters. Why don't you get out of Canada, or go to some international events or games before you make such absurd statements.
I went to the '05 WJC in Grand Forks - the majority of the arrogant/obnoxious fans were Canadians; much more than any other country. And don't forget the "USA sucks" chant in Vancouver during a game Canada didn't even play in. Pure class shouting that at 18-19 year olds.
Typical stereotypical Canadian neanderthal hockey mentality.

As far as Cherry is concerned,i don't see how he is any worse of a bigot then the general attitude of so many of your fans here concerning players from anywhere else.Like i've mentioned before..........they don't even usually comment on the great plays and talent from players of other countries, said player seems to have to come from you know where for any of that treatment.When they do comment it's usually just to dive in with a negative remark.Hell,even cherry will give credit where credit is due.Who's really got the over bloated ethnocentrist view of their hockey players anyway?

Attitude of so many of our fans -- on a HF message board?:biglaugh:

The Russians certainly aren't angels but the difference is that Canada puts someone like Don Cherry on a pedestal. He exemplifies the stereotype of goon Canadian hockey - and the fact that he's so popular (top 10 greatest Canadians) more than confirms that stereotype. You don't see something like that with the Russians.

Who's really got the over bloated ethnocentrist view of their hockey players anyway? Maybe some guy who coined the phrase Chicken Swede.:dunno:

Your grasping at straws.......me thinks you actually can't stand the Russians because they nullify the notion of Canadian hockey 'dominance'.
 

Roger's Pancreas*

Guest
No one respects Cherry. CBS pays him to get a reaction out of those who tune in, much in the same way XM pays Howard Stern to draw interest in their product. He's a side show, nothing more.

As for "top 10 greatest Canadians", what a joke. I can't believe you actually referenced that in an arguement. All of Canada wasn't given the opportunity to vote, and I doubt very much that those who did were educated enough to know who Terry Fox, Alexander Graham Bell, or Sir Frederick Banting are. It was a popularity contest, like Fitzpatrick in this year's All-Star ballot.
 

espo*

Guest
Just as I thought - judging Russian fans/hockey based on a handful of HF posters. Why don't you get out of Canada, or go to some international events or games before you make such absurd statements.
I went to the '05 WJC in Grand Forks - the majority of the arrogant/obnoxious fans were Canadians; much more than any other country. And don't forget the "USA sucks" chant in Vancouver during a game Canada didn't even play in. Pure class shouting that at 18-19 year olds.
Typical stereotypical Canadian neanderthal hockey mentality.



Attitude of so many of our fans -- on a HF message board?:biglaugh:

The Russians certainly aren't angels but the difference is that Canada puts someone like Don Cherry on a pedestal. He exemplifies the stereotype of goon Canadian hockey - and the fact that he's so popular (top 10 greatest Canadians) more than confirms that stereotype. You don't see something like that with the Russians.

Who's really got the over bloated ethnocentrist view of their hockey players anyway? Maybe some guy who coined the phrase Chicken Swede.:dunno:

Your grasping at straws.......me thinks you actually can't stand the Russians because they nullify the notion of Canadian hockey 'dominance'.

You know i could say a lot of things but i've already said them and here you are back here doing all the things you said none of your fans do.This is not the only message board i go on and have more experience with fans from there then just here you know.

I don't know what you saw in North dakota and it does'nt matter because no-one can see what you saw so you could just as well be making everything up concerning arrogance.We all only see what we see here and that's all i and a lot of people can judge it on.but for every story you bring up about how the mentality of Canadian hockey is backward and disgusting/shameful i am sure i can bring up just as many concerning russian attitudes and already have brought up a few of them.Don Cherry eh? for every don Cherry story you have i have an anson Carter story where fans are throwing bananas out on the ice.................don't be so sure of your fans innocence and be so smug about it.And i'm not even on the ground in russia to see what other rackets go on there and what their fans say or how they would act if i was there and could'nt understand what they were saying even if i was there.North dakota? how are we going to see how Russian fans would act there?........it was in North dakota.

Anyway,you make it like Don cherry is such a bad thing and that Canadian fans have some eternal shame for having him in their top ten list.Big deal about Don!!! so what? So a lot of Canadians like a guy who backs Canadian hockey above all others,you see a hundred Don Cherrys here every day from every country(both of us could even be classified that here for our teams) And the rick Ley thing in parliament,it's not nice but Great shame? Listen,when our leaders start rubbing out political dissidents left and right(and there is people that still love him,i've seen them here!!)) then come to me and start talking about the "shame" over goonery Canadians should have. You guys are'nt exactly the best ones to preach you know.

Canada keeps it's nose pretty damn clean.We have a passion for hockey and so many like rough hockey and Don Cherry and have at times celebrated it(no-one's dying over that). .......................we're VERY tame in comparison.





We don't need to feel any great shame in how we play hockey or view it.We've done some regrettable things but it's kept to the ice.We are certainly not alone in having done regrettable things out on the ice either.........but it seems even in 2006 we are still the only ones being called out on it and that pisses me off.Only you as a Russian fan can really tell me what the average Russian attitude concerning Canadian hockey is but if here and other boards are any indication at all,it's that we are still more willing to engage in goonery and are'nt that skilled.

Anyway.I don't have that big of a problem with you and think you're one of the more unbiased fans they've got in these parts.My point was that i don't lose sleep over Clarke because i never see any Russian fans lose sleep over Piestany.You disagreed and that's fine.I just don't see why i need to feel any different or what's wrong with feeling the way i do.I never meant to piss you or anyone else with saying how i feel about Clarke,it's just the way i feel and i understand why i feel that way and am o.k with it.

But i'll try from here on in to try to look for the balance i may see in fans arguments from over there,i'll do my best.I know there are some Canadian fans here that are'nt balanced in their outlooks either.

Enjoy the rest of the WJC'S


And i hope we meet you guys and kick the **** out of you!!:D
 
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