Half-Assed GDT: Blues vs. Hawks

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wannabebluesplayer

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I'm not interested in reading complaints about Bouwmeester unless they are a footnote to complaints about coaching.

We had Dunn, Edmundson and Gunnarsson. There was absolutely no excuse for giving Bouwmeester the ice time he was getting. There were games where Bouwmeester was more dangerous to us than anyone in the opposition.

If the coaches are awarding ice time based on salary, they should be sacked. Senior players get a longer leash because we know their quality and we can ride out their rough patches, that's perfectly understandable. It isn't when the player is carrying a significant injury.

We are a better team next season if Bouwmeester is back, healthy, on the bottom pairing with Schmaltz. If coaching is going to try and shoehorn him into the top-4 at the expense of Dunn? That's not on Bouwmeester.

But that's where an argument can be made that Armstrong needs to take the option away from Yeo, by moving Bouwmeester. I agree with you though, if Bouwmeester is 100% healthy next season, he'd be a great partner for Bortuzzo/Schmaltz.
 
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Apr 30, 2012
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But that's where an argument can be made that Armstrong needs to take the option away from Yeo, by moving Bouwmeester. I agree with you though, if Bouwmeester is 100% healthy next season, he'd be a great partner for Bortuzzo/Schmaltz.

A healthy Bouwmeester can still provide some valuable minutes down the lineup at this point. Key word there being healthy. Based on what they’ve said I suspect he was dealing with a labrum tear. If that’s the case they should have shut him down when it happened. For a guy who’s skating is his most important asset, it doesn’t make sense to keep running him out there if he can’t do it. That’s on management and coaching, not Bouwmeester.
 
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Alklha

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But that's where an argument can be made that Armstrong needs to take the option away from Yeo, by moving Bouwmeester. I agree with you though, if Bouwmeester is 100% healthy next season, he'd be a great partner for Bortuzzo/Schmaltz.
If the GM can't trust his coach to make basic roster decisions, that's more an argument for sacking him than trading a player.

I won't miss Bouwmeester if he is traded, but his NTC limits that possibility. The biggest concern is that the coaches aren't going to make the right decisions.

Hopefully Dunn can use the last 10 games of the season to make it clear he is a top-4 player. He has averaged 18:45, 6 points and +1 in the 6 games since Bouwmeester went to IR.
 
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Brian39

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I just don't see a realistic scenario that leads to us trading J-Bo. he isn't going to waive his NTC in order to go to a bottom feeder that is content to stash him on LTIR or sit him in the pressbox while using his cap hit to reach the floor. He is only going to waive his NTC in order to get more/better playing time opportunities than he'd get here (or to play a limited role for a Cup favorite). The way this season went with injuries, what team is making those types of promises to him in order for him to waive his NTC? Until he can return to the NHL and prove his health/ability, I just don't see a deal being made.

I think you either go into next year with Gunnar and J-Bo in order to showcase and shop J-Bo mid-season, trade Gunnar in the summer and bank on J-Bo returning to form, or plan on keeping both throughout the year and being willing to park a big contract in the pressbox if Walman proves that he is ready.
 
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Note Worthy

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Agreed. I see J-Bo being on the roster next year. Too much would have to happen for him to be traded. A team isn't going to want an aging Dman who hasn't had a great season and came off LTIR. And even if we were able to find that team J-Bo would then have to waive his NTC in order for the trade to go through. I just don't see all or any of those things happening.
 
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Evocable Manager

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And one poster was calling out Sobotka "haters". Bouwmeester was playing injured all season. Can we be done with the JBo hate?
Whether he's injured or not is irrelevant. If he's playing, even injured, he should at least be an NHL caliber player. But clearly he isn't bad because of injury, he's been bad for over 2 seasons now.
 
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EastonBlues22

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Bouwmeester was visibly hobbled by his injuries all year, and was nowhere near as bad two years ago.

I don't see any reason why a healthy Bouwmeester shouldn't be expected to play at a top 4 level. More to the point, I seriously doubt that the Blues plan for him moving forward is to be playing him on the bottom pairing.
 
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stl76

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A healthy Bouwmeester can still provide some valuable minutes down the lineup at this point. Key word there being healthy. Based on what they’ve said I suspect he was dealing with a labrum tear. If that’s the case they should have shut him down when it happened. For a guy who’s skating is his most important asset, it doesn’t make sense to keep running him out there if he can’t do it. That’s on management and coaching, not Bouwmeester.

I agree with you that a healthy Bouwmeester is still a valuable part of the roster and that he should have been shut down and had surgery when the injury first occured. It was pretty clear he was struggling/not 100% out there and it probably did hurt the team at times.

However, I don't think the decision to postpone surgery can be blamed on management or coaching. Whether he was helping the team or inadvertently hurting it, the decision to play or shut down for surgery is ultimately up to the player and the team doctors. If the doctors say he can play, doing so won't make the injury worse, and the player wants to keep playing then I don't think there is a whole lot the organization can do.

I guess Yeo could have refused to play him and management could have banished him to the AHL in the hope that eventually Bouw would relent and shut himself down for the season...doesn't seem like a realistic scenario tho. Not to mention it would be a really shitty way to treat a player trying to fight thru pain to play for the team and would send a horrible message to the locker room.
 
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simon IC

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Whether he's injured or not is irrelevant. If he's playing, even injured, he should at least be an NHL caliber player. But clearly he isn't bad because of injury, he's been bad for over 2 seasons now.
Hmm. I must be getting the numbers on the jerseys mixed up. I thought #19 was one of our better players in the Minnesota series last year. He was excellent defensively. A few months before that he was playing well enough for Mike Babcock to give him lots of minutes for Canada in the World Cup. :dunno:
 
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StatisticsAddict99

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Lol, good stuff.
 
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Stealth JD

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If the Blues have no plan on extending Bouwmeester, which seems the most likely outcome, then it's likely he'll be traded at the deadline next year (ala Shattenkirk & Stastny) for whatever the Blues can get. Ideally it would be to a team with a need for a 2nd/3rd-pairing veteran D-man for another 2-3 years while their kids develop. I imagine the list would be pretty short, but if any team is talking a contract-extension as part of acquiring Bouwmeester I'm sure his agent will be listening.
 
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67Blues

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I'm not interested in reading complaints about Bouwmeester unless they are a footnote to complaints about coaching.

We had Dunn, Edmundson and Gunnarsson. There was absolutely no excuse for giving Bouwmeester the ice time he was getting. There were games where Bouwmeester was more dangerous to us than anyone in the opposition.

If the coaches are awarding ice time based on salary, they should be sacked. Senior players get a longer leash because we know their quality and we can ride out their rough patches, that's perfectly understandable. It isn't when the player is carrying a significant injury.

We are a better team next season if Bouwmeester is back, healthy, on the bottom pairing with Schmaltz. If coaching is going to try and shoehorn him into the top-4 at the expense of Dunn? That's not on Bouwmeester.
I wonder how long his hip has been bothering him. His skating ability has declined sharply in the last two seasons, and considering that was his big positive, it has really highlighted him as a liability compared to Eddy and Dunn. Then again, didn't Gunnarsson have a similar issue and come back better after the surgery? Maybe a healthy JBo next season could be a reality?
 
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Brian39

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If the Blues have no plan on extending Bouwmeester, which seems the most likely outcome, then it's likely he'll be traded at the deadline next year (ala Shattenkirk & Stastny) for whatever the Blues can get. Ideally it would be to a team with a need for a 2nd/3rd-pairing veteran D-man for another 2-3 years while their kids develop. I imagine the list would be pretty short, but if any team is talking a contract-extension as part of acquiring Bouwmeester I'm sure his agent will be listening.

Unless we a re a bubble team or worse, I don't see him waiving his NTC at the deadline unless it is to a clear cut contender. We have a number of question marks this summer, but I think that even the worst case scenario doesn't put us any worse than we have been this year. Acquiring a top 6 forward (or above average middle 6 guy) via trade/free agency, the return of Fabbri and just 1 prospect being NHL ready would likely put us in position to be squarely middle of the pack in the Central. I don't think J-Bo would have much interest in going from a middle of the pack team to another mid-season, so we'd need to find a legit contender in need of what you're describing. If we can't find that, I think he'd rather just hit the UFA market in the summer instead of narrowing his options down to teams looking for deadline help.

If we try to move him, I'd wager it is in November/December when more teams could seem appealing. I just don't see this potential bottoming out that many are predicting if we can't get Tavares (or Stastny back) over the summer.
 
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Alklha

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I wonder how long his hip has been bothering him. His skating ability has declined sharply in the last two seasons, and considering that was his big positive, it has really highlighted him as a liability compared to Eddy and Dunn. Then again, didn't Gunnarsson have a similar issue and come back better after the surgery? Maybe a healthy JBo next season could be a reality?
He had injuries last season, but I can't remember what it was. This season he broke his ankle at camp and it was all downhill from there. The thing is that you can quickly start playing again on a broken ankle, and most do, but if it is causing slight discomfort then you can make adjustments without realising it. Those adjustments can make you more prone to other injuries. Not saying it is the case here, but it is something that can happen.

If the Blues have no plan on extending Bouwmeester, which seems the most likely outcome, then it's likely he'll be traded at the deadline next year (ala Shattenkirk & Stastny) for whatever the Blues can get. Ideally it would be to a team with a need for a 2nd/3rd-pairing veteran D-man for another 2-3 years while their kids develop. I imagine the list would be pretty short, but if any team is talking a contract-extension as part of acquiring Bouwmeester I'm sure his agent will be listening.
I doubt it. Shattenkirk was moved because we'd resigned ourselves to that for the entire year beforehand, he had significant value and we had the internal replacement who was playing. If the Blues are heading in the right direction, Bouwmeester will be in the Backes and Brouwer situation.
 
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MissouriMook

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I wouldn’t be surprised if we bring a healthy Bouwmeester back on a 2 year deal after next season, albeit at a fraction of his current deal. Aside from Walman, who may need more than another year of AHL seasoning, we don’t really have anyone we can expect to be ready to take the 3LD slot. Maybe he never makes a complete recovery, but if the options are a healthy JBo, a less-than-ready Walman or a UFA 3rd pairing guy, they’ll almost certainly go with the devil they know.
 
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Stealth JD

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Unless we a re a bubble team or worse, I don't see him waiving his NTC at the deadline unless it is to a clear cut contender. We have a number of question marks this summer, but I think that even the worst case scenario doesn't put us any worse than we have been this year. Acquiring a top 6 forward (or above average middle 6 guy) via trade/free agency, the return of Fabbri and just 1 prospect being NHL ready would likely put us in position to be squarely middle of the pack in the Central. I don't think J-Bo would have much interest in going from a middle of the pack team to another mid-season, so we'd need to find a legit contender in need of what you're describing. If we can't find that, I think he'd rather just hit the UFA market in the summer instead of narrowing his options down to teams looking for deadline help.

If we try to move him, I'd wager it is in November/December when more teams could seem appealing. I just don't see this potential bottoming out that many are predicting if we can't get Tavares (or Stastny back) over the summer.

He had injuries last season, but I can't remember what it was. This season he broke his ankle at camp and it was all downhill from there. The thing is that you can quickly start playing again on a broken ankle, and most do, but if it is causing slight discomfort then you can make adjustments without realising it. Those adjustments can make you more prone to other injuries. Not saying it is the case here, but it is something that can happen.


I doubt it. Shattenkirk was moved because we'd resigned ourselves to that for the entire year beforehand, he had significant value and we had the internal replacement who was playing. If the Blues are heading in the right direction, Bouwmeester will be in the Backes and Brouwer situation.

If the Blues continue to play sound defense in his absence, the Blues would be foolish to not consider any and all offers for the guy. He's expendable, and if his ice-time is given to Gunnarsson, Bortuzzo Schmaltz he'd probably prefer to be traded than benched. I'd hope he's showcased for the first 20-games of next year and sold to the first contender who suffers an injury on defense, or the first team willing to talk extension. Doug Weight got forced-out in similar circumstances to Anaheim - "accept a trade, or be a healthy scratch - we can't give you any more ice-time".
 
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Evocable Manager

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Hmm. I must be getting the numbers on the jerseys mixed up. I thought #19 was one of our better players in the Minnesota series last year. He was excellent defensively. A few months before that he was playing well enough for Mike Babcock to give him lots of minutes for Canada in the World Cup. :dunno:
Yea because a 5-6 game stretch is what defines a player...
 
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67Blues

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He had injuries last season, but I can't remember what it was. This season he broke his ankle at camp and it was all downhill from there. The thing is that you can quickly start playing again on a broken ankle, and most do, but if it is causing slight discomfort then you can make adjustments without realising it. Those adjustments can make you more prone to other injuries. Not saying it is the case here, but it is something that can happen.

Indeed. I broke my foot on a slapshot and kept playing. Next thing I know, I have a hip flexor due to changing my skating angle and stride to compensate for my sore foot.
 
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Evocable Manager

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Seems to work for Jake Allen.
I'm not following.

The general consensus is that he is wildly inconsistent to the point he can't be relied on as a #1 goalie. This has been more or less proven based upon 3 (and soon 4) full seasons as an NHL goalie, including 2 as the "undisputed #1." He's been at or below average every year of his career except for one season.
 
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