Half-Assed GDT: Blues vs Ducks

[simon IC]

I can't speak for Yeo's reasoning there. I'd prefer to see the same.

I just think calling them liabilities implies that they are actively holding the team back or hampering it in some way. There's probably some semantic differences in everyone's interpretations of what that means, exactly. Are they worse than what the Blues would be fielding when healthy? Sure. That said, there are a good number of teams with healthy third pairings that are worse than this makeshift one. We've certainly seen far worse third pairings in our years as Blues fans.

When I think about defensive pairings that are liabilities, what comes to mind are pairings that hamstring their teams because they are constantly giving up odd-man rushes via positional or puck management mistakes, or who leave their team constantly hemmed into their own end because they can't separate players from pucks or transition effectively, or who contribute nothing in the neutral/offensive zones (essentially forcing the rest of their team to play 3 on 5 for two thirds of the ice). Big deficiencies that cause large imbalances in play.

This pairing made some mistakes, but they didn't give up that much (certainly not an inordinate amount relative to the other two pairings), and they weren't constantly under siege back there. Outside of Dunn's one gaffe, what other prime scoring chances did the gift-wrap Anaheim? They contributed in both the neutral and offensive zones...Dunn more than Schmaltz, but as a pairing they certainly held their own.

They're imperfect, but I just don't feel like the ice was tilted against the Blues while they were out there, and it's hard for me to call something a liability if that's not the case.

Excellent post, I completely agree that neither Dunn or Schmaltz are a liability. Like you stated, Matt Walker was a liability. Brad Hunt was a liability. I just question the use of Dunn/Schmaltz as a pairing. Perhaps it was an experiment to rekindle an AHL chemistry? (If there was one, I don't know!) I still question Schmaltz' readiness. He looks indecisive, a tad timid, and as I stated earlier, watches the puck too much. I do realize it is his first NHL game in a while, but after watching him tonight I understand the coaching decision to play Bortuzzo over him in the PO's. He's going to be an NHL D, I just think he needs to be brought along slowly.

 

[The Note]

They look like a team playing without their #1 D-pair and their best forward thus far this season. I’d like to see them stick Tarasenko back with Schenn and move Jaskin with Stastny.

 

[Celtic Note]

Dunn and Schmaltz are not liabilities.

 

[carter333167]

The team is playing well.

The one problem is that we don't have much elite scoring talent in the forward group beyond Schenn, Tank, and Schwartz. Stas is probably in the second tier and Steen and Bergie in the third.

We thus are going to need to get some scoring help from the D-Corp but that is a bit tough with Petro out. The current D-Pairings are just trying to hold serve and doing an admirable job of it.

The wise course IMO is to wait on our prospects and further bolster our prospect pool. Thomas and Kostin may both be with the big club next year....Thompson and Kyrou might as well. Fabs might be back, Walman may be ready, and Paryko will probably be even better. If some of these guys develop, we have far more potent 2nd and 3rd forward lines and an even better D-Corp (perhaps the best in the league). This is the path to the SC in my opinion.

I would consider trades around any of the following players: Gunnar, Bo and possibly even Steen (if another team is overvaluing him--I think his days of nudging 60 points are over unless he is given uber-talented linemates and, in that situation, he is dragging them down to some extent).

 

[BangarangxRufio]

49/10/91
20/26/23
71/21/56
9/70/28
----------
6-55
29-41
19-43
I want these lines next game... no moving them around during.. let them play out!

I hate that Yea refuses to put 49&91 on a line together(all conjecture no substantial evidence other than watching the games).

 

[Majorityof1]

Didn't get a chance to watch the game last night. Judging by the 6 page GDT, I would bet I was not the only one at the Last Jedi premier. I have it on DVR, but probably won't watch given the "high"lights I've already seen and reactions in this thread. Can anyone tell me why we failed to score? We put up shots and had scoring chances, according to stats. Was Gibson out of his mind, or did we shoot into his chest? I would be very grateful if someone could give me a brief analysis and save me from having to watch what is apparently a painful game. "Help me [HF Blues Board], you're my only hope...."

 

[Thallis]

Berglund - Schenn - Tarasenko
Sobotka - Stastny - Steen
Upshall - Brodziak - Jaskin
Paajarvi - Sundqvist -Barbashev

We desperately need to get Berglund on a scoring line. Let him battle down low with Schenn and open up areas for Tarasenko up high. Take Jaskin off good players' wings, he's more effective with muckers anyway. Pray Steen remembers how to shoot the puck at some point.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

Berglund - Schenn - Tarasenko
Sobotka - Stastny - Steen
Upshall - Brodziak - Jaskin
Paajarvi - Sundqvist -Barbashev

We desperately need to get Berglund on a scoring line. Let him battle down low with Schenn and open up areas for Tarasenko up high. Take Jaskin off good players' wings, he's more effective with muckers anyway. Pray Steen remembers how to shoot the puck at some point.

we must be watching different games because Bergie is back to the pre 2016 Berglund right now... he is not finishing checks or using his body like he did last year. That is why he was so good last year to me, he was playing without fear of his shoulder and using his size to create opportunities. He is still recovering mentally though and it shows in him old timid play style.

 

[Majorityof1]

Berglund - Schenn - Tarasenko
Sobotka - Stastny - Steen
Upshall - Brodziak - Jaskin
Paajarvi - Sundqvist -Barbashev

We desperately need to get Berglund on a scoring line. Let him battle down low with Schenn and open up areas for Tarasenko up high. Take Jaskin off good players' wings, he's more effective with muckers anyway. Pray Steen remembers how to shoot the puck at some point.

Jakin did well with Schwartz/Schenn combo and did well with Stastny. He struggles with Berglund, Backes and Brouwer. There were reams and reams of WOWY stats to back this up before my favorite WoWY sites went down.

Berglund scores on his own but makes linemates worse due to his holding the puck and not being able to create as well as others. Again, reams of WOWY dats supports this. Putting him with scorers would diminish the effectiveness of the scorers but not increase Berlgund's effectiveness to as great an extent.

Berglund's GF 60 5v5 WoWY 2016-17

With Tarasenko (65 minutes) - 0 GF/60
Without Tarasenko - 1.95
Tarasenko w/o Berglund - 2.84
Both players took a big hit as they were unable to score together in 4-6 games worth of ice time.

With Schwartz (189 minutes) - 1.27 GF/60
Without Schwartz - 1.95
Schwartz without Berglund - 3.13
While Berglund took a small hit playing with Schwartz, Schwartz production dropped like a rock playing with Berglund.

With Paajarvi (155 minutes) - 3.47
Without Paajarvi - 1.54
Paajarvi without Berglund - 2.7
Berglund's game was actually boosted more playing with Paajarvi than anyone else. Granted Berglund still killed Paajarvi's game, but that's just what Berglund does.

BTW, this year, Schenn and Schwartz scored at a 8.6 goals per 60 pace with Jaskin on their line 5v5. They scored at a 4.02 g/60 pace when together with anybody else. But sure, he does better with muckers.

History seems to contradict your eye test analysis. Look into whatever other data you want. This data is not an outlier for Berglund. Its a theme.

 

[Oberyn]

Schmaltz still looks a bit tentative out there but I liked seeing him jump up in the offensive zone. Didn't look that bad defensively although I feel he sometimes panics with the puck whenever he's under pressure in the defensive zone. Once he calms down and gets used to the NHL speed, I think he'll be a useful player for the Blues.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

Schmaltz still looks a bit tentative out there but I liked seeing him jump up in the offensive zone. Didn't look that bad defensively although I feel he sometimes panics with the puck whenever he's under pressure in the defensive zone. Once he calms down and gets used to the NHL speed, I think he'll be a useful player for the Blues.

I agree with this whole post. I really want them to tell him to start shooting. If they are going to use him on the PP he should be looked at as a viable offensive contributor. everyone should be putting pucks on net. we has 1 shot on the PP last night... it just cant keep happening.

 

[stl76]

I feel like our standards are rising. Yeah, there have been a couple of visible defensive lapses, but Anaheim only has 11 shots on net more than 2/3rds of the way through the game.

Matt Walker was a defensive liability. Dunn and Schmaltz aren't perfect, but they look like legitimate NHLers and the team isn't limping with them on the ice.

Yeah, maybe I am being too tough on them. I will say they both looked better as the game went on, especially Schmaltz.

However, I respectfully disagree about Schmaltz looking like a legit NHLer. I thought last night he looked like and AHLer struggling to adapt to the speed of the NHL. I don’t want to make this an indictment of Schmaltz’s career, somehow insinuate that he isn’t/won’t be a legit NHLer, or generally be TOO hard on him. I think Schmaltz just needs a little time to adjust to NHL speed.

But he wasn’t good enough last night and it hurt the team IMO. Way too many missed passes, neutral zone turnovers, and mistakes on simple plays. There were 2-3 times in the first and second period where we should have gotten the puck out but ended up hemmed in our zone for an extended period due to little mistakes from Dunn - Schmaltz pairing.

 

[Brian39]

For the first time in my life, I can honestly say that I made the correct decision watching Thursday Night Football instead of a Blues game. I watched about 10 minutes of the Blues and we looked real flat. Reading thorough this thread, it is pretty clear that I didn't just happen to watch our only flat play. And the Broncos looked like an actual NFL team last night, which was nice.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Stastny and Tarasenko have never produced much when together. Can we end this experiment now?

It fails over and over again.

 

[Brian39]

4 game losing streak coming up. We are not beating Winnipeg.

Come on, the sky's not falling.

The Jets just got waxed by the Hawks last night and are 1-3-1 in their last 5 games. They allowed 4+ goals in each of those losses and Hellebuyck has allowed 15 goals in his last 4 starts. Maybe we wind up losing the next 2, but how many times do the Blues have to pull out of a slump for people to stop treating games like foregone conclusions after 1 or 2 bad nights? We followed up a 4 game win streak with 2 losses, one of which we looked pretty damn good in. And suddenly we just aren't capable of winning this weekend?