Blues Trade Proposals Part XXXV

[Blueston]

We've been through this. If this is your sword....go ahead and fall on it.

Thankfully DA is unlikely to reserve the 2RW spot for Kyrou that you seem so eager to just hand to him. If he proves himself ready in camp, great, just seems like a bad idea to expect it.

 

[Dbrownss]

Thankfully DA is unlikely to reserve the 2RW spot for Kyrou that you seem so eager to just hand to him. If he proves himself ready in camp, great, just seems like a bad idea to expect it.

That's not really my point. As I've pointed out and agreed with another poster, a natural RW in the middle 6 mold should be acquired....regardless.

You seem dead set on using him not cracking the roster of an AHL team going into the playoffs as proof. Given the circumstances of this year, I put zero weight behind him not cracking the Wolves roster. As for last year, again....not alot of weight to put behind that one either. It will be 2 full years between then and training camp. Also, as I've said, I remember reading the Blues thought long about keeping him this year but ultimately sent him back. I just dont think he's that far away.

 

[Majorityof1]

On the main board, someone posted speculation from an untrusted source which said Kessel could be on the block. RHS, RW, great on the PP, can make lesser players better offesnively, 4 years left @ $6.8M, very little real money left, like $13.6 if my quick math is right. Pens fans are amenable to moving him for right value. One wanted Dunn+. The rest want a Coyle/Nino + 1st type of return, which we can't match directly. What would you all give up?

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

On the main board, someone posted speculation from an untrusted source which said Kessel could be on the block. RHS, RW, great on the PP, can make lesser players better offesnively, 4 years left @ $6.8M, very little real money left, like $13.6 if my quick math is right. Pens fans are amenable to moving him for right value. One wanted Dunn+. The rest want a Coyle/Nino + 1st type of return, which we can't match directly. What would you all give up?

I wouldn't want to deal Dunn and force JBo into the top4 coming off his injury.
Pens probably wouldn't want a pure futures return, and we need to be adding and not just shuffling around our top6.
His value is high with him coming off a 92pt season, and I wouldn't be interested in paying the price the Pens would justifiably ask for a guy going into his age 31 season.

 

[MissouriMook]

On the main board, someone posted speculation from an untrusted source which said Kessel could be on the block. RHS, RW, great on the PP, can make lesser players better offesnively, 4 years left @ $6.8M, very little real money left, like $13.6 if my quick math is right. Pens fans are amenable to moving him for right value. One wanted Dunn+. The rest want a Coyle/Nino + 1st type of return, which we can't match directly. What would you all give up?

At this point, I think I would rather give up Parayko+ for Marner (not saying that deal is available) than to give up Dunn+ for Kessel. Kessel is the better player and worth every bit of his $6.8M cap hit, but bringing him in as one of your Top 6 forward additions this offseason puts you out of the Tavares sweepstakes and doesn't leave a whole lot of money to add the Top 6 C you need to add this offseason.

Sure you have the heir apparent for your 1C/2C in Thomas, but you could make the same argument about the 2RW spot with Kyrou i.e. - an argument against spending one of your top young defensemen on a guy who will be 31 when next season starts.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

Can someone that understands this better please explain how he is only 6.8 cap? I see 8 mil cap hit. how do bonuses and such play into cap?
Phil Kessel - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Kind Sir]

Can someone that understands this better please explain how he is only 6.8 cap? I see 8 mil cap hit. how do bonuses and such play into cap?
Phil Kessel - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Looks like Toronto retained 1.2 mil/year.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Can someone that understands this better please explain how he is only 6.8 cap? I see 8 mil cap hit. how do bonuses and such play into cap?
Phil Kessel - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Toronto retained on the deal

 

[Kind Sir]

Kessel'd be great but his stock value is inflated (IMHO) due to his 92 pt season. Pitt would be looking to sell high......pass, unless they come down on the ask, which aint likely.

 

[WeWentBlues]

I'd do two firsts again, maybe someone like Berglund, Schmaltz/Walman and a B level forward prospect for Kessel.

They have Sprong ready to step into top 6 RW role.

 

[Dbrownss]

Hard to explain why, but I'd pass on Kessel at the prices being thrown around

 

[BlueDream]

I mean, the reason he’s on the block (or at least what’s being speculated) is him and Mike Sullivan don’t really see eye to eye. This isn’t the first time this type of stuff has surfaced about him not being the easiest to coach.

If we can get him for a solid price, then sure. But I don’t think we would. I’d be wary of giving up a lot for this guy. Maybe a few years ago. 31 isn’t old but it’s not too ideal either.

To be honest I’d rather spend assets on a C and go with Kyrou as the #2 RW. Kind of like how Pittsburgh would be using Sprong to replace Phil. We really need a center. We could potentially fill the RW spot internally but if we spend assets to fill that spot from outside the organization and don’t get a center we’d be screwed.

 

[Dbrownss]

I mean, the reason he’s on the block (or at least what’s being speculated) is him and Mike Sullivan don’t really see eye to eye. This isn’t the first time this type of stuff has surfaced about him not being the easiest to coach.

If we can get him for a solid price, then sure. But I don’t think we would. I’d be wary of giving up a lot for this guy. Maybe a few years ago. 31 isn’t old but it’s not too ideal either.

Yea, I was reading all that. We already have 1 moody RW'er

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Kyrou hasn't been able to crack AHL lineup at end of season for last 2 years. Seems unlikely he will be NHL ready by training camp.

No offense, but this is just not a well-informed opinion. I don’t even really disagree that he won’t be ready for a full time gig in the fall, but his AHL experiences so far is not a good data point to rely on. Glass and Suzuki were first round picks of the team that is affiliated with the Wolves, and they didn’t get in any games either this year. Kyrou was dealing with an injury. The Wolves already have made it clear where their priorities are, and developing prospects or giving them a shot are not near the top of the list. Thompson and Musil both arrived well before Kyrou did last year, and therefore had a much different opportunity than he did. I wouldn’t worry about his AHL experience at all.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Toronto retained on the deal

Yes, Toronto retained 1.2m per year.
Performance Bonuses. Most bonuses are for players at ELCs, so a cheap entry level could make additional money with bonuses. Bonuses earned in the season can be paid that season if there is cap space. In there isn't cap space, performance bonuses can be delayed, but must be paid the next season.
Having players on LTIR might affect when performance are paid. (it's complicated)

 

[Blueston]

No offense, but this is just not a well-informed opinion. I don’t even really disagree that he won’t be ready for a full time gig in the fall, but his AHL experiences so far is not a good data point to rely on. Glass and Suzuki were first round picks of the team that is affiliated with the Wolves, and they didn’t get in any games either this year. Kyrou was dealing with an injury. The Wolves already have made it clear where their priorities are, and developing prospects or giving them a shot are not near the top of the list. Thompson and Musil both arrived well before Kyrou did last year, and therefore had a much different opportunity than he did. I wouldn’t worry about his AHL experience at all.

Lest we forget, no reason we had to send Kyrou to Chicago. We sent Kaspick to MB. You don't think if Thomas showed up after OHL season he could get ice time in AHL?

 

[WeWentBlues]

Lest we forget, no reason we had to send Kyrou to Chicago. We sent Kaspick to MB. You don't think if Thomas showed up after OHL season he could get ice time in AHL?

Based on how Chicago Wolves operate, no probably not.

 

[simon IC]

I have disliked Kessel as a player since he was drafted. (I still remember the heated debates in 2006 on the now defunct Official Blues Site forum!) Having said that, he has consistently proven me wrong at every level. I thought he was an out of shape, lazy, coach killing Prima Donna. An arrogant, self centered, one dimensional, me-first Princess. The epitome of the kind of player I love to hate. However, his numbers do not lie. His playoff performances, in particular, prove that he is the real deal. He absolutely is a true clutch performer. A "go to guy". Having said that, I still dislike him, regardless of how irrational that is. . I also would not be willing to pay the absurd, but justifiable, asking price. I can't deny that he would instantly make the Blues a much better team. I personally wouldn't trade for him, but I certainly understand why some fans would want him on the Blues.

 

[The Note]

I would absolutely love to get Kessel. But Pens fans (rightfully) say nothing short of a good, high upside defenseman i.e. Dunn or a scoring winger+ makes sense. This wouldn’t be a WPG 1st+ Thompson deal. Given he will be 31 at the start of the season I can’t stomach giving up Dunn for him, no matter how much I’d like to see him here. A Schwartz-Schenn-Kessel line would be a treat to watch.

 

[Mike Liut]

If im making a trade like that, I want somebody younger than 31

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Lest we forget, no reason we had to send Kyrou to Chicago. We sent Kaspick to MB. You don't think if Thomas showed up after OHL season he could get ice time in AHL?

Can I ask why you're so down on Kyrou? The dude was the OHL MVP. It's been shown by Pronman and others at the Athletic that he has elite NHL level skating. The kid has great vision and excellent play making abilities. He has much to be desired in the defense department, but if you pair him with defensively responsible players like Schwartz and Schenn, I'm sure he'd pick that part of the game up pretty well. It almost feels like it's a personal thing now as you've bucked against Kyrou possibly being in the top 6 at every turn. No one on this forum thinks he should be given the spot, but the kid is absolutely in play for it. He's a super talented hockey player and long with Thomas, the Blues haven't had a combination of this highly thought of prospects at the forward position in quite a while.

 

[Dbrownss]

Can I ask why you're so down on Kyrou? The dude was the OHL MVP. It's been shown by Pronman and others at the Athletic that he has elite NHL level skating. The kid has great vision and excellent play making abilities. He has much to be desired in the defense department, but if you pair him with defensively responsible players like Schwartz and Schenn, I'm sure he'd pick that part of the game up pretty well. It almost feels like it's a personal thing now as you've bucked against Kyrou possibly being in the top 6 at every turn. No one on this forum thinks he should be given the spot, but the kid is absolutely in play for it. He's a super talented hockey player and long with Thomas, the Blues haven't had a combination of this highly thought of prospects at the forward position in quite a while.

this is honestly overstated

 

[Majorityof1]

On Kessel, I am not sold on trading Dunn, although I think that makes us much better in the short-term. If Walman develops, it may not even hurt us that much in the long run. But trading Dunn is a tough pill to swallow.

However, there are Pittsburgh fans willing to do Coyle+1st. Coyle is 26 and a 40-point player with 2 years until UFA. Someone even said Donskoi + 1st. He has a year left and has never hit 40. If those are the returns they want, trade for a guy like that and add to get Kessel in a 3 way deal. Or just add lots of extras to Berglund/Sobotka to make up for the slight age difference.

Blues get : Kessel
Ottawa gets: Tage Thompson + Blias
Pittsburgh gets: Dzingel/Pageu + WPG 1st + 2nd

I mean that would be the basic framework. There might need to be some small incentives to Ottawa, and Ottawa could be replaced with any other team looking to rebuild/shed salary. Kessel just checks far too many boxes not to go after him. RHS, PP specialist, fast, can offensively elevate a line without an elite C (Bonino). And if we shed enough salary and the cap rises, we can probably add Tavares too. We talked about Hoffman and Tavares, Kessel is les than $2M more. We slept on Kessel 3 years ago, and he sold for a pittance. Since then he has 2 cups and 275 points.

 

[DatDude44]

Thorburn and Blais for kessel, trust me it's fair

 

[WeWentBlues]

The one thing I have been thinking since this came up yesterday regarding Kessel...does acquiring him block Kyrou? This is probably a short sided way to look at things and maybe we are better off long term if we let Kyrou develop in the AHL anyways.

I am not concerned about the age, cap hit or perceived character concerns. If Kane is worth 7M for 7 years on today's market, Kessel at 6.8M is a steal.