Blues Trade Proposals Part XXXV

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Novacain

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Anyone think that Army reconsiders Fabbri for Hoffman this offseason especially if we can get them to take 21/71?

I think we have a lot less reason to look into that trade now then we did at the deadline. I'd rather have Fabbri under what will be a prove it contract then just having Hoffman, once more, a Left Handed shot, for 2 years.
 

DoubleK81

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There is no way we get OTT to take 21/71. They blew up a deal to trade EK because they wanted to add Ryan into the deal. They are trying to dump as much salary as possible.
 

Alklha

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There is no way we get OTT to take 21/71. They blew up a deal to trade EK because they wanted to add Ryan into the deal. They are trying to dump as much salary as possible.
The cap floor exists, $16m below the limit. That could be $65m next year. They can just gut the roster without bringing in salary.

That said, Ottawa apparently wanted Fabbri & one of our better forward prospects. Armstrong said no. We traded Stastny and tried to flip the pick, which I’d assume was Fabbri & 1st for Hoffman... didn’t happen, Dorion apparently jumped the price up now we had a first.

As you say, McKenzie reported that they basically had a deal agreed to send Karlsson to Vegas. Then at the last second demanded they take Ryan as well, without anything else in the deal changing.

I hope Armstrong doesn’t make any more attempts for Hoffman. If that is how they are doing business, don’t waste time negotiating with a moron.
 

TheBluePenguin

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Yeah I want nothing to do with any Ottawa trade, They have some players I would love to have but it seems all they want to do is dump salary which means either we overpay in prospects or take on a bad contract to get one of the good players, we cannot afford that at this point. Army is better looking other places IMO
 

Dbrownss

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I wouldn't want DA to avoid getting a good player because their GM is a clown. With that said, he better be driving that boat in those negotiations.
 
Apr 30, 2012
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I get what you’re saying, but why even bother engaging with a guy who’s proven to be an ass in negotiations? Who would want to deal with him knowing that he agreed to a major deal and then tried to dump in an extra contract at the last minute?
 

Dbrownss

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I get what you’re saying, but why even bother engaging with a guy who’s proven to be an ass in negotiations? Who would want to deal with him knowing that he agreed to a major deal and then tried to dump in an extra contract at the last minute?
For fleecing purposes. If no one is willing to work with him, then his leverage isnt great. If you burn bridges, your only hurting yourself.

I wouldnt be suprised if Dorian burned that bridge with Armstrong though. You could tell in DAs tone in his post TDL interview it pissed him off that Dorian asked for the 1st in addition to what he already wanted. No real harm in circling back with a lesser offer. That's a toxic organization, and I'd bank on Dorian panicking.
 
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For fleecing purposes. If no one is willing to work with him, then his leverage isnt great. If you burn bridges, your only hurting yourself.

I wouldnt be suprised if Dorian burned that bridge with Armstrong though. You could tell in DAs tone in his post TDL interview it pissed him off that Dorian asked for the 1st in addition to what he already wanted. No real harm in circling back with a lesser offer. That's a toxic organization, and I'd bank on Dorian panicking.

I gotcha. Yeah I’m ok with circling back with him to touch base, but I’d make it blatantly clear from the start that we are going to yankee around. You want to negotiate in good faith that’s fine. Otherwise, pound sand.
 

Stealth JD

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If there's any guy in the league who strikes me as an Eric Staal-like return-to-form candidate, it would be Matt Duchene. Tavares should absolutely be the priority, but Duchene could be a good-get as well if it's primarily for futures.
 
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Alklha

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For fleecing purposes. If no one is willing to work with him, then his leverage isnt great. If you burn bridges, your only hurting yourself.

I wouldnt be suprised if Dorian burned that bridge with Armstrong though. You could tell in DAs tone in his post TDL interview it pissed him off that Dorian asked for the 1st in addition to what he already wanted. No real harm in circling back with a lesser offer. That's a toxic organization, and I'd bank on Dorian panicking.
Yeah, make an offer. I'm not for burning bridges, I'm against getting into another prolonged dance with Ottawa. Reportedly a couple of months, then Dorion started playing games.

Armstrong needs to treat Dorion like he treated Feaster in Calgary; make the offer, leave it on the table and start looking at other options.

If there's any guy in the league who strikes me as an Eric Staal-like return-to-form candidate, it would be Matt Duchene. Tavares should absolutely be the priority, but Duchene could be a good-get as well if it's primarily for futures.
They currently have the 5th overall, they are a point back of Montreal and a game in hand. If they end up with the 7th or 8th overall... do they decide to not activate the protection clause and let that pick go to Colorado?

If they move this years pick, there is no question that the tear that roster apart this summer and Duchene will be available.
 
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Stealth JD

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yep - Ottawa will give up this year's pick if it's not top-5, and trade Karlsson & anybody else with value and a high-salary. I suspect Bobby Ryan will be part of the rebuild, simply because they'll need him to hit the cap-floor and nobody is going to want the guy's contract.
 

Stealth JD

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Colorado is already scary-good with MacKinnon, Landeskog & Rantanen. I'm not eager to see that team with another top-10 talent courtesy of Ottawa. Jost and Makar will be a part of that core very soon.
 

BlueDream

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I'm also interested in Duchene. I think some people are writing him off too quickly. He's very talented and he'd be on a much better structured team with more help than he was in either Colorado or Ottawa. A 1-2 punch of him and Schenn is strong. Absolutely should be at the top of our list of options. I'd take him over RNH, who I've advocated for in the past.

Ottawa is going to have to take some salary back at some point. There's a salary cap, so otherwise teams will make them get stuck with their UFA's who will just walk.
 
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carter333167

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We need to figure out the goaltender situation.

If whomever is our starter throws up a .905 save percentage and a below .500 quality start percentage over the course of the season, all the centers in the world are not going to save the team.
 

Oberyn

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Colorado is already scary-good with MacKinnon, Landeskog & Rantanen. I'm not eager to see that team with another top-10 talent courtesy of Ottawa. Jost and Makar will be a part of that core very soon.
It was kind of expected with how long they've sucked. Similar to how Winnipeg has surged into a Cup contender. All five of those players are top 10 picks, and three of them were in the top 5. It also shows how well the Blues have drafted considering how few top picks we've had in the past decade.
 

David Dennison

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We need to figure out the goaltender situation.

If whomever is our starter throws up a .905 save percentage and a below .500 quality start percentage over the course of the season, all the centers in the world are not going to save the team.

I disagree. Blues are 22nd in scoring, 7th in goals against. Blues will be fine with Allen/Husso and adding a Hutton-type backup for the next couple of years. Unless there is a clearly better option out there, which I dont really see out there. And hell no to Price.
 

Alklha

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I disagree. Blues are 22nd in scoring, 7th in goals against. Blues will be fine with Allen/Husso and adding a Hutton-type backup for the next couple of years. Unless there is a clearly better option out there, which I dont really see out there. And hell no to Price.
Just because goalscoring is a problem doesn't mean that goaltending isn't.

We aren't winning the Cup with a .905 goalie. It isn't 1995. This entire season might be an "outlier" for Allen, his stretches of terrible play isn't an outlier. He can't be trusted.

Take last night. Second time in about month we've had a go ahead goal cut off on review and Allen has immediately given up a softie. I know it's cherry picking, but it sums him up.

We can't keep wasting years of our best players by being patient and hoping for the best. Being patient made sense this year because we have so many prospects on the way. That's done.

Next season we need to start being aggressive to get this team in a position to win.
 

David Dennison

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Just because goalscoring is a problem doesn't mean that goaltending isn't.

We aren't winning the Cup with a .905 goalie. It isn't 1995. This entire season might be an "outlier" for Allen, his stretches of terrible play isn't an outlier. He can't be trusted.

Take last night. Second time in about month we've had a go ahead goal cut off on review and Allen has immediately given up a softie. I know it's cherry picking, but it sums him up.

We can't keep wasting years of our best players by being patient and hoping for the best. Being patient made sense this year because we have so many prospects on the way. That's done.

Next season we need to start being aggressive to get this team in a position to win.

There are very few great goalies out there: who is available, clearly better than Allen, and not on an outrageous deal? Its not hard to add depth behind him if you are that concerned about his inconsistent play, I wouldnt be against signing Hutton for 1-2 more years. Bottom line is that you can get value in free agency in goal. At least, much more than at forward. Im not even against moving Allen, but I really dont know how many concrete options our out there and it cannot get in the way of us adding a top 6 forward.

Adding Tavares does a lot more than Carey Price in the short and long run. Adding Tavares probably helps Allen out, but Carey Price doesnt do much to improve that Sobotka is our 2nd line center. You can criticize the equivalency, but the point is valid. We wont be any better next year if we have to count on Kyrou to be our big addition up front.
 

Alklha

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There are very few great goalies out there: who is available, clearly better than Allen, and not on an outrageous deal? Its not hard to add depth behind him if you are that concerned about his inconsistent play, I wouldnt be against signing Hutton for 1-2 more years. Bottom line is that you can get value in free agency in goal. At least, much more than at forward. Im not even against moving Allen, but I really dont know how many concrete options our out there and it cannot get in the way of us adding a top 6 forward.

Adding Tavares does a lot more than Carey Price in the short and long run. Adding Tavares probably helps Allen out, but Carey Price doesnt do much to improve that Sobotka is our 2nd line center. You can criticize the equivalency, but the point is valid. We wont be any better next year if we have to count on Kyrou to be our big addition up front.
It’s not about getting a great goalie, it’s about getting a dependable goalie. It’s better to have a goalie that’s going to be pretty consistent over the course of a season to get to .920 rather than half the season at .895 and the next half at .945. Allen is the latter. We can’t trust what one is going to show up when it matters.

Raanta would be a big upgrade in Allen. He far more dependable positionally, and that’s a foundation that works well with our D.

Absolutely agree that Tavares has a bigger impact than Price to our roster. We need to make at least 2 moves at forward (C & RW), assuming that we believe Fabbri will be back.
 

Reality Czech

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We need to figure out the goaltender situation.

If whomever is our starter throws up a .905 save percentage and a below .500 quality start percentage over the course of the season, all the centers in the world are not going to save the team.

Totally disagree as well. This team wouldn't win a Cup with Patrick Roy in his prime so why make goaltending the top priority? They should try to fix the larger issues first, then worry about goaltending. Trying to force an Allen trade right now isn't going to help us much. We won't get good value for him and won't change the fact that we are scoring far fewer goals than playoff contenders are.
 

TruBlu

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We need to figure out the goaltender situation.

If whomever is our starter throws up a .905 save percentage and a below .500 quality start percentage over the course of the season, all the centers in the world are not going to save the team.

That's more on the team. Hutton would have had below a .500 start percentage in front of this team if he'd been in net as the starter. We had to have set a record for the number of games we lost with only 1 goal or even a goose egg this season. The number one issue, in my eyes, is that some scorers need to be picked up; at least a top 6 center and RW. Once we can score 3 or more goals on a consistent basis, then we can look to fixing goaltending, whatever that may be.
 

Thallis

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Totally disagree as well. This team wouldn't win a Cup with Patrick Roy in his prime so why make goaltending the top priority? They should try to fix the larger issues first, then worry about goaltending. Trying to force an Allen trade right now isn't going to help us much. We won't get good value for him and won't change the fact that we are scoring far fewer goals than playoff contenders are.
We shouldn't be wasting years trying to fix one thing at a time. We need to have a plan for both things. Since Jake isn't the answer we should be looking elsewhere while we look for help at forward.
 
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