Blues Trade Proposals Part XXXIII

[wannabebluesplayer]

Pacioretty won't be cheap, he's one of the more consistent 30+ goal scorers out there.

I understand he wouldn't be cheap, but Kessel level return. C'mon. That's asking a bit much for him.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I understand he wouldn't be cheap, but Kessel level return. C'mon. That's asking a bit much for him.

Yeah, I saw that guy's post, and Kessel is a horrible comp. Contract situation are drastically different. Kessel has a higher ceiling, Pacioretty is more consistent and a more complete winger.

The guy then followed up with a package that wasn't even close to what Kessel went for. He's a clear Habs homer and Leafs hater and thinks that Pacioretty is significantly better than Kessel.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Yeah, I saw that guy's post, and Kessel is a horrible comp. Contract situation are drastically different. Kessel has a higher ceiling, Pacioretty is more consistent and a more complete winger.

The guy then followed up with a package that wasn't even close to what Kessel went for. He's a clear Habs homer and Leafs hater and thinks that Pacioretty is significantly better than Kessel.

Yeah. They are asking quite a bit. I mean, I know it's unpopular, but given how we don't know what would happen with Fabbri, if a team is willing to take him and a prospect and a pick for a proven goal scorer like Pacioretty, I'd be all over it. But that second proposal with Thomas at the top is just nuts. That's a HUGE over payment.

 

[Frenzy31]

I beg to differ that his loss would be easier to swallow. He is a C and has shown he can look competent at that position in the NHL. Kyrou and Thompson have not.

Why do Tage and Kyrou suddenly have higher ceilings? They still have questions that they have not answered about their ability to produce in the NHL. Is it because Kyrou is tearing up juniors? Barby put up 1.67 while playing a much, much, much more complete game at Kyrou's age. Is it because Thompson is doing well in the AHL? Barby put up ,.8 ppg last year there. So people are judging his ceiling based on their expectations for what he could do this year, and their disappointment that he has been relegated to the AHL instead. But I doubt most of us have watched more than a handful of games of his in Chicago, and they only aired a few during the pre-season. So how are we to judge the change in his ceiling? We are going off stats (which are minimal in pre-season and ahl) and the coaches sending him down, without knowing their exact reasoning. I want to see more before I say he is the most expendable.

Personally for me, Kyrou is far and away the most expendable piece with value. I just don't like his game outside of his skating, like at all. Lots of players put up points in juniors and fizzle out in the pros. I suspect he'll be another example of that.

I don't quite view it this way. Right now we have an excess of prospects that project to be legit top 6. I feel trading one for a top 6 winger now would be good for the team. BUT IT ALL depends on the winger. I am not in a hurry to trade for someone like Nyquist, but Simmons would be a different answer for me.

As for TT vs. Barb - TT plays a complete game and is producing at a better rate then Barb did his first year in the AHL. Last season was Barb's 2nd in the AHL his draft +3 year. This is TT's draft +2. - not really even comparable at this point.

I like Barb, but to me he is more available then TT, JK, Kostin, and Thomas. And I was for giving Barb a chance to center the 2nd line this year. But I do agree that his time in Chicago this year is a waist and isn't hellping him at all.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

I wouldn't be opposed to getting Gallagher

 

[LetsGoBooze]

I wouldn't be opposed to getting Gallagher

I wonder what his cost would be? I could see him fitting well on this team.

 

[Alklha]

Yeah. They are asking quite a bit. I mean, I know it's unpopular, but given how we don't know what would happen with Fabbri, if a team is willing to take him and a prospect and a pick for a proven goal scorer like Pacioretty, I'd be all over it. But that second proposal with Thomas at the top is just nuts. That's a HUGE over payment.

Yeah, I would absolutely hate a trade like that. It's a position we don't need, it is short term and we are moving 3 futures to get him. Far too much is made of the Fabbri injury with how little we know. Why is selling so low a good idea?

If Pacioretty was a RW and signed a year longer? Then it starts to make more sense.

 

[Reality Czech]

I wouldn't be opposed to getting Gallagher

My Habs fan friend said the Habs will sooner trade Max P than Gallagher. Says he's the "heart and soul" of the Canadiens. So I don't see them trading him just for the sake of it. Plus, the Habs are about to jump back into the playoff race, so I don't think the Habs firesale will be happening. Bergevin and that team are too proud to give up.

 

[Michael Scarn]

My Habs fan friend said the Habs will sooner trade Max P than Gallagher. Says he's the "heart and soul" of the Canadiens. So I don't see them trading him just for the sake of it. Plus, the Habs are about to jump back into the playoff race, so I don't think the Habs firesale will be happening. Bergevin and that team are too proud to give up.

Agreed. Don’t think Montreal will be sellers. They’re already tied for 3rd in that horrible division (outside of top two teams). That team simply isn’t as bad as they played, and if Price is healthy, they’ll make the playoffs. They just traded for Drouin and only second year of Webber. I think they’ll want to try to make a run.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Agreed. Don’t think Montreal will be sellers. They’re already tied for 3rd in that horrible division (outside of top two teams). That team simply isn’t as bad as they played, and if Price is healthy, they’ll make the playoffs. They just traded for Drouin and only second year of Webber. I think they’ll want to try to make a run.

Wanting to make a run and having the capability are two different things. What is Bergevin going to move to get help? They don't really have the farm system to trade from outside of Juulsen, but they do have picks. They have around $9mil in cap space, but it's already been shown, numerous times, if they don't have Price, they are in trouble. If Bergevin really wants to get some help, he'll move at least Galchenyuk and some picks. Pacioretty, Drouin, and Gallagher would all return the best packages but those three are the ones that more than likely won't be moved, especially Drouin. They are going to be competitive in a bad division, but I have a feeling Tampa or Toronto would destroy Montreal in a series. They are going to continue to sit on the playoff bubble until they go through at least a mini rebuild or retool by moving at least one of their forwards.

 

[Michael Scarn]

Wanting to make a run and having the capability are two different things. What is Bergevin going to move to get help? They don't really have the farm system to trade from outside of Juulsen, but they do have picks. They have around $9mil in cap space, but it's already been shown, numerous times, if they don't have Price, they are in trouble. If Bergevin really wants to get some help, he'll move at least Galchenyuk and some picks. Pacioretty, Drouin, and Gallagher would all return the best packages but those three are the ones that more than likely won't be moved, especially Drouin. They are going to be competitive in a bad division, but I have a feeling Tampa or Toronto would destroy Montreal in a series. They are going to continue to sit on the playoff bubble until they go through at least a mini rebuild or retool by moving at least one of their forwards.

I can see Galchenyuk traded, and that would fall under retool, as you mentioned. But trading Pacioretty would constitute more rebuild than retool. I don’t see that happening unless they start playing awful again.

 

[Celtic Note]

Agreed. Don’t think Montreal will be sellers. They’re already tied for 3rd in that horrible division (outside of top two teams). That team simply isn’t as bad as they played, and if Price is healthy, they’ll make the playoffs. They just traded for Drouin and only second year of Webber. I think they’ll want to try to make a run.

Agreed. I think they will try to make a run as well. Bergevin certainly reads like an all in type of guy. I also think they are better than their record indicates. Their start to the season was horrific, but they turned it around. Price has a lot to do with that. Factor in their GM and rise in the standings, I don’t see them selling. They may make trades however. Bergevin loves to tinker.

 

[Celtic Note]

Kyrou is the type of player this team is sorely lacking. Great skating and terrific vision with the puck. He has some flaws in his game that may hinder his ability to transition to the pros, but I'm willing to take the risk and see how he progresses. Now if the Blues are looking to make a deal for a 1C and they want Kyrou in the package, then adding him as a no-brainer. But I wouldn't personally give him up for someone like Simmonds who is entering the decline of his career.

I have seen a few posters say Kyrou is a player that we need. I don’t want to misconstrue what I am about to say, but just because we need a player like him doesn’t mean we should inflate his value. I am not saying you or others are doing that, but when I read about Kyrou and see comments about our needs, I can see how some may increase his value in their minds.

Kyrou has to show that he is capable of being that player. I am not sold that he has done that yet or that he will reach that level. Has he been awesome offensively in the OHL? For sure. Are their major gaps in his game? Also true. That shouldn’t read as I am down on him. I simply see some big hurdles he has to traverse if he wants to be a productive NHL player. In his AHL game and preseason games he was very timid. Some of that could be nerves, but it read as something deeper to me. Can he overcome all of that? Plenty haven’t been able to. So he is no lock.

I have hope he can make it all work out. It will likely be a challenging road forward once he tries to make the NHL. Maybe that road us short. Let’s hope so. Maybe that road lasts forever.

I just wanted to share the flip side of the coin, since it doesn’t seem well represented here.

 

[Oberyn]

I have seen a few posters say Kyrou is a player that we need. I don’t want to misconstrue what I am about to say, but just because we need a player like him doesn’t mean we should inflate his value. I am not saying you or others are doing that, but when I read about Kyrou and see comments about our needs, I can see how some may increase his value in their minds.

Kyrou has to show that he is capable of being that player. I am not sold that he has done that yet or that he will reach that level. Has he been awesome offensively in the OHL? For sure. Are their major gaps in his game? Also true. That shouldn’t read as I am down on him. I simply see some big hurdles he has to traverse if he wants to be a productive NHL player. In his AHL game and preseason games he was very timid. Some of that could be nerves, but it read as something deeper to me. Can he overcome all of that? Plenty haven’t been able to. So he is no lock.

I have hope he can make it all work out. It will likely be a challenging road forward once he tries to make the NHL. Maybe that road us short. Let’s hope so. Maybe that road lasts forever.

I just wanted to share the flip side of the coin, since it doesn’t seem well represented here.

Fair point and I completely agree. I'm probably a little biased when it comes to Kyrou as he's my second favorite prospect after Thomas so I likely value him higher than other's on this board.

I fully acknowledge Kyrou has some distinct flaws in his game and will need to mold his playstyle if he wants to be a consistent NHLer. I am just very intrigued with his combination of skill and speed and how well it would supplement with some of our forwards.

Kyrou is far from a sure thing, but I am willing to take the chance on him that he'll put it together and become a top six player for the Blues.

 

[Spektre]

If everyone but Eichel is available from Buffalo I hope Army is kicking the tires on Reinhart. Buffalo seems to need some of everything.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Gallagher plays Blues hockey, like it or not haha. Aggressive, scrummy, pain-in-the-butt kind of player who also happens to be capable of potting a good number of goals. He’s a shorter Max Lappierre that can score a ton. He fits our core and would be a fantastic addition, and I’d be willing to give up some valuable farm pieces to add him.

But anyone who says that Robert Thomas should be on the table (not that anyone is, thank god), I have 3 names for you: Max Domi, Bo Horvat, Christian Dvorak. The London Knights just churn out NHL caliber players, we finally got our shot at one, no reason at all to give up a guy who’s on pace for 50ish goals. Same with Kyrou.

But guys like Thompson, Blais and Barbashev? Yeah they’re worth swapping for Gallagher for sure. Obviously with adds from us. Add one of our many gritty 3rd liners in there, and that might be a deal that GMMB might be into, given his preferences. They’d have to get a whole lot further from a playoff spot before that happened though.

 

[simon IC]

Gallagher plays Blues hockey, like it or not haha. Aggressive, scrummy, pain-in-the-butt kind of player who also happens to be capable of potting a good number of goals. He’s a shorter Max Lappierre that can score a ton. He fits our core and would be a fantastic addition, and I’d be willing to give up some valuable farm pieces to add him.

But anyone who says that Robert Thomas should be on the table (not that anyone is, thank god), I have 3 names for you: Max Domi, Bo Horvat, Christian Dvorak. The London Knights just churn out NHL caliber players, we finally got our shot at one, no reason at all to give up a guy who’s on pace for 50ish goals. Same with Kyrou.

But guys like Thompson, Blais and Barbashev? Yeah they’re worth swapping for Gallagher for sure. Obviously with adds from us. Add one of our many gritty 3rd liners in there, and that might be a deal that GMMB might be into, given his preferences. They’d have to get a whole lot further from a playoff spot before that happened though.

Yeah that bum Thompson is such a bust. Should have drafted Debrincat. Our GM sucks.)

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

So, is the consensus that Armstrong (Doug) should trade for a forward now that Schwartz is out, or should they ride Barbashev, Blais, and maybe Thompson or another young gun to help fill in?

EDIT: Steen also needs to STEP IT UP now. Earn that nearly $6mil a year. If he can't or doesn't, I'd be one on board with asking him for his no trade list.

 

[bleedblue1223]

You don't make a trade for a 6-week stretch. As long as we continue to collect points at a reasonable rate, there isn't much of an issue. Any move should still have the primary objective of advancing a Cup run, but that also has to be under the conditions that we will be relatively full-strength around the time of the deadline.

Army should still be in hold mode, while evaluating what kind of deals are out there.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

You don't make a trade for a 6-week stretch. As long as we continue to collect points at a reasonable rate, there isn't much of an issue. Any move should still have the primary objective of advancing a Cup run, but that also has to be under the conditions that we will be relatively full-strength around the time of the deadline.

Army should still be in hold mode, while evaluating what kind of deals are out there.

It's not really making a trade for 6 weeks. He's going to be reevaluated in 6 weeks. My guess, he's out at least till 8 weeks. That's a quarter of the season. I understand patience and I'm okay if Army doesn't make a move, but this team already needed some top9 to top6 help. This will underscore it unless Barbashev, Blais, and/or Thompson can really step up their games. (Along with Steen)

 

[bleedblue1223]

It's not really making a trade for 6 weeks. He's going to be reevaluated in 6 weeks. My guess, he's out at least till 8 weeks. That's a quarter of the season. I understand patience and I'm okay if Army doesn't make a move, but this team already needed some top9 to top6 help. This will underscore it unless Barbashev, Blais, and/or Thompson can really step up their games. (Along with Steen)

We only know 6 weeks, that what Army has to go on. Maybe it's more, but until he knows it's more, he shouldn't be making a drastic moves. If something comes up, then great, make the move, but we are not in panic mode yet.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

We only know 6 weeks, that what Army has to go on. Maybe it's more, but until he knows it's more, he shouldn't be making a drastic moves. If something comes up, then great, make the move, but we are not in panic mode yet.

Sorry, I guess I should have prefaced my question then because I wasn't meaning it like a panic move. It was more like, does it put more pressure on Armstrong to find help for Schenn, Tarasenko, Stastny, etc, or should they stand pat and see how it goes with the young guns?

EDIT: I don't want a panic move. Panic = bad move. The Blues don't need a panic move, but many thought they could use another top6 to top9 winger before Schwartz got hurt, so that's where my mind went. Does this add some pressure or is it still the same and Blues hope for the best while he's out?

 

[Reality Czech]

You don't make a trade for a 6-week stretch. As long as we continue to collect points at a reasonable rate, there isn't much of an issue. Any move should still have the primary objective of advancing a Cup run, but that also has to be under the conditions that we will be relatively full-strength around the time of the deadline.

Army should still be in hold mode, while evaluating what kind of deals are out there.

Although our top 6 has the potential to get ugly fast, I don't see a need to make a trade right "now." Army should continue to explore the options out there, but I don't know that the Schwartz injury should change his strategy too much. We already needed another top 6 winger to compete with the big boys in the playoffs, so I think Army should stay the course. It's a bit early in the season to expect that many trades to happen, but as teams fall out of the race then more guys will become available.

Stay the course. Give internal options a shot and keep looking for that ideal fit via trade.

 

[Dbrownss]

Id imagine Army had his target players and is waiting for his deal, Similar to finally getting Schenn. With Schwartz going down, the price goes up because the other GM is hoping for that panic move. While losing Schwartz sucks, we have Schenn now. Before the ball always was at Tarasenko's feet, and how he has support to carry the mail.

 

[carter333167]

I don't really want Army to attempt any big moves. Hang on to our assets.