OT: Blue Bombers Thread 2.0 - Home Playoff Game, Nov 12, 330PM

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Holden Caulfield

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Sask looks darn good. Their D is tough. Maas is panicking on esks sideline. What a battle for 1-2 in west it will be starting with labour day.

I'm somewhat confused. Saskatchewan is still dead last in the west, they are not competing for 1-2 in the West with the Bombers.

You are right Saskatchewan looks to be getting better though. Looking solid recently. Looks like west is going to be a huge battle all year, right now it might even be BC that ends up missing playoffs.

One odd thing I've noticed is a crazy number of ex-Bombers DB's are starting around the league. Demond Washington, Don Unamba, Terrence Frederik, Jovon Johnson, Brandon Stewart, Johnny Adams, Johnny Sears, etc. It seems the one place Bombers have been good at recruiting is DB's over past few years.
 
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snowkiddin

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I'm somewhat confused. Saskatchewan is still dead last in the west, they are not competing for 1-2 in the West with the Bombers.

You are right Saskatchewan looks to be getting better though. Looking solid recently. Looks like west is going to be a huge battle all year, right now it might even be BC that ends up missing playoffs.

One odd thing I've noticed is a crazy number of ex-Bombers DB's are starting around the league. Demond Washington, Don Unamba, Terrence Frederik, Jovon Johnson, Brandon Stewart, Johnny Adams, Johnny Sears, etc. It seems the one place Bombers have been good at recruiting is DB's over past few years.

Anyone know what happened to Matt Bucknor?

And by the way, I agree with you on Okpaulaugo. Big bust. And Westerman will likely be replaced next year, if not by Corney, then by an American
 

Holden Caulfield

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Anyone know what happened to Matt Bucknor?

And by the way, I agree with you on Okpaulaugo. Big bust. And Westerman will likely be replaced next year, if not by Corney, then by an American

Bucknor actually came in to the game last week for BC. He's been their national backup DB this year.

Bombers are certainly banking on Chorney being able to step in. Having that national starter at DE is huge for flexibility. But with Westerman and Harris being two older ratio breakers it will be interesting to see what happens as those guys age out. I imagine the Bombers believe Geoff Gray will eventually be a starting tackle for them. Next year though is a long way off, CFL doesn't generally plan longterm as much as the NHL or MLB.
 

snowkiddin

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Bucknor actually came in to the game last week for BC. He's been their national backup DB this year.

Bombers are certainly banking on Chorney being able to step in. Having that national starter at DE is huge for flexibility. But with Westerman and Harris being two older ratio breakers it will be interesting to see what happens as those guys age out. I imagine the Bombers believe Geoff Gray will eventually be a starting tackle for them. Next year though is a long way off, CFL doesn't generally plan longterm as much as the NHL or MLB.

Bucknor (as with the majority of those you mentioned above) was garbage for us IMO. Hoping Chorney can step in, but we've had great Americans at DE in Hall and Willis, so it wouldn't surprise me if they go back that route and try putting a Canadian in elsewhere (the secondary?)

Hopefully Gray ends up here, but I'm wishing him luck in the NFL for now.
 
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Holden Caulfield

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Bucknor (as with the majority of those you mentioned above) was garbage for us IMO. Hoping Chorney can step in, but we've had great Americans at DE in Hall and Willis, so it wouldn't surprise me if they go back that route and try putting a Canadian in elsewhere (the secondary?)

Hopefully Gray ends up here, but I'm wishing him luck in the NFL for now.

Bucknor was terrible but he was a national. We needed him at the time for the ratio. Most of the players I named were top end players. Guys like Johnson, Washington, Adams, Sears were really good players we moved on due to cost. Others like Unamba and Frederik we were promising young guys that got passed, no big deal. I wasn't trying to say it was always a mistake to move on (albeit it clearly was in a few cases like now retired Hefney and Johnson for example) just thought it was kinda cool how many ex-Bombers DB's (most or all brought north by the Blue and Gold) are still starting around the league.

As the passing game has gotten more and more important teams have gone away from using nationals in the secondary. Not that many left outside of safety and in many cases teams have moved to an international at safety as well. Eventually the Bombers will need to move away from starting 3 internationals on the O-Line. But again, that's not an issue right now and so much changes year to year in CFL it's largely irrelevant to talk about now.
 

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Any word on where Faith EKAKITIE is or how he did in camp? Too bad we squandered those seasons of Doug Brown being a dominant National interior defender. Also it sucks Andrew Harris isn't 25 the guy is an amazing CFL back.
 

puck stoppa

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I'm somewhat confused. Saskatchewan is still dead last in the west, they are not competing for 1-2 in the West with the Bombers.

You are right Saskatchewan looks to be getting better though. Looking solid recently. Looks like west is going to be a huge battle all year, right now it might even be BC that ends up missing playoffs.

One odd thing I've noticed is a crazy number of ex-Bombers DB's are starting around the league. Demond Washington, Don Unamba, Terrence Frederik, Jovon Johnson, Brandon Stewart, Johnny Adams, Johnny Sears, etc. It seems the one place Bombers have been good at recruiting is DB's over past few years.

Battle for first and second in the west the rest of the year. I meant between the top three in west. Esks play Stamps two in a row now and we face the riders, battle for first starts on labour day.
 

DowntownBooster

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It's going to be a tough game for the Bombers in the Labour Day Classic. Saskatchewan dismantled the Eskimos 54 - 31 last night in Edmonton. The Riders led 40 - 7 at one point in the game. In the Riders previous game they beat the Lions 41 - 8. The Bombers will have to be firing on all cylinders if they hope to beat Saskatchewan next weekend in Regina.

:jets
 

Fairview

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Bucknor was terrible but he was a national. We needed him at the time for the ratio. Most of the players I named were top end players. Guys like Johnson, Washington, Adams, Sears were really good players we moved on due to cost. Others like Unamba and Frederik we were promising young guys that got passed, no big deal. I wasn't trying to say it was always a mistake to move on (albeit it clearly was in a few cases like now retired Hefney and Johnson for example) just thought it was kinda cool how many ex-Bombers DB's (most or all brought north by the Blue and Gold) are still starting around the league.

As the passing game has gotten more and more important teams have gone away from using nationals in the secondary. Not that many left outside of safety and in many cases teams have moved to an international at safety as well. Eventually the Bombers will need to move away from starting 3 internationals on the O-Line. But again, that's not an issue right now and so much changes year to year in CFL it's largely irrelevant to talk about now.

I don't ever remember Johnson being a very good DB. At his best he was adequate, and was usually the guy getting beat deep. He was a playmaker on special teams as a returner though. IIRC, he won top defensive player in the league one year..but it was a bit of a mystery as he was not a shutdown DB but was huge on big play returns.I remember him gambling big time for picks and also getting beat big time gambling on such. Not really a stabilizing force on defense.
 

sipowicz

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Continue here, 7-2 going into labour day. I'm heading out this year, it should be a great game.

Did those years ago and always had a good time. Should be a neat experience in Sask's new stadium and a good game with Sask. on the rebound!

How did you even get tickets?
 
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Holden Caulfield

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Did those years ago and always had a good time. Should be a neat experience in Sask's new stadium and a good game with Sask. on the rebound!

How did you even get tickets?

My buddy runs a bus out there every year. Some spots opened up this year so we are heading out, 55 BB fans on a 6 hour bus ride to the middle of nowhere (ie Saskatchewan). It's a crazy ride, last time I went a couple of years ago we were all drunk by the time we entered that province on Saturday morning and did not start to get sober until we crossed back into civilization (Manitoba) on Monday afternoon. Super pumped. My buddy has appeared on TSN the last few years, maybe we'll get on again!

The results are almost always bad, but the trips to LDC are always worth it no matter what.
 

Holden Caulfield

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What the hell happened to Jonathan Jennings? After a great year last year and was playing really well to start this season he has been beyond horrendous since returning from injury. I wonder if he rushed his rehab because of how Lulay played in his absence and is still hurt. He looks pathetic out there.
 

puck stoppa

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What the hell happened to Jonathan Jennings? After a great year last year and was playing really well to start this season he has been beyond horrendous since returning from injury. I wonder if he rushed his rehab because of how Lulay played in his absence and is still hurt. He looks pathetic out there.

Maybe shoulda left lulay in till he lost
 

csk

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What the hell happened to Jonathan Jennings? After a great year last year and was playing really well to start this season he has been beyond horrendous since returning from injury. I wonder if he rushed his rehab because of how Lulay played in his absence and is still hurt. He looks pathetic out there.

To be honest I never thought Jennings was the real deal, more of a flash in the pan type guy like Willy or Collaros.
 

puck stoppa

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To be honest I never thought Jennings was the real deal, more of a flash in the pan type guy like Willy or Collaros.

Lulay almost completed comeback, 3 Tds in fourth and then had a chance to tie game but threw a pick. He starts next game.
 

snowkiddin

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Bucknor was terrible but he was a national. We needed him at the time for the ratio. Most of the players I named were top end players. Guys like Johnson, Washington, Adams, Sears were really good players we moved on due to cost. Others like Unamba and Frederik we were promising young guys that got passed, no big deal. I wasn't trying to say it was always a mistake to move on (albeit it clearly was in a few cases like now retired Hefney and Johnson for example) just thought it was kinda cool how many ex-Bombers DB's (most or all brought north by the Blue and Gold) are still starting around the league.

As the passing game has gotten more and more important teams have gone away from using nationals in the secondary. Not that many left outside of safety and in many cases teams have moved to an international at safety as well. Eventually the Bombers will need to move away from starting 3 internationals on the O-Line. But again, that's not an issue right now and so much changes year to year in CFL it's largely irrelevant to talk about now.

I don't really remember Washington being too great. And Sears I didn't think was that good for us but he has definitely improved since leaving the Bombers.

And Lulay should definitely start next game. Jennings has been terrible for a while now.
 

Holden Caulfield

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I don't ever remember Johnson being a very good DB. At his best he was adequate, and was usually the guy getting beat deep. He was a playmaker on special teams as a returner though. IIRC, he won top defensive player in the league one year..but it was a bit of a mystery as he was not a shutdown DB but was huge on big play returns.I remember him gambling big time for picks and also getting beat big time gambling on such. Not really a stabilizing force on defense.

Johnson was a pretty much unanimous DPOY selection. But he wasn't a shutdown corner? Are you being serious? He was by far the best DB in the league for a few years, has settled into a solid/good starter in more recent years.

I don't really remember Washington being too great. And Sears I didn't think was that good for us but he has definitely improved since leaving the Bombers.

And Lulay should definitely start next game. Jennings has been terrible for a while now.

Washington was good. Sears was more of a ST demon when here, but showed promise on defense.

Again though my whole point was NOT that dur Bombers dumb, but rather to highlight that Bombers brought in a ton of DB's to CFL that are starters around the league right now, that shows something for their talent identification for DB's. Also just a cool factoid.

It's quite surprising how quickly people try to denounce former players though, I've just never gotten that.
 

snowkiddin

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Johnson was a pretty much unanimous DPOY selection. But he wasn't a shutdown corner? Are you being serious? He was by far the best DB in the league for a few years, has settled into a solid/good starter in more recent years.



Washington was good. Sears was more of a ST demon when here, but showed promise on defense.

Again though my whole point was NOT that dur Bombers dumb, but rather to highlight that Bombers brought in a ton of DB's to CFL that are starters around the league right now, that shows something for their talent identification for DB's. Also just a cool factoid.

It's quite surprising how quickly people try to denounce former players though, I've just never gotten that.

I'm not saying that your point is the Bombers are dumb, and I do agree that is interesting. And maybe my memory has betrayed me, but I don't particularly remember guys like Stewart, Johnson, Washington, etc. being good. Johnson was pretty good in 2011, but the whole defensive unit that year was good. I'm not sure he was unanimous because like I said the whole Bombers unit that year was good. Could've been Willis or Lobedahn. And that's just from the Bombers...

Believe me, I was all over those guys when they were here, I didn't wait until they left. I was sick of seeing people throw deep on guys like Johnson and Washington. Just like in the future I'll reminisce about the days when Alexander and Carmichael were getting eaten alive while they were with us. But I admit that now.

Like Fairview said, Johnson had a knack for big plays, but he still did get beat all the time.
 

Fairview

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Johnson was a pretty much unanimous DPOY selection. But he wasn't a shutdown corner? Are you being serious? He was by far the best DB in the league for a few years, has settled into a solid/good starter in more recent years.



Washington was good. Sears was more of a ST demon when here, but showed promise on defense.

Again though my whole point was NOT that dur Bombers dumb, but rather to highlight that Bombers brought in a ton of DB's to CFL that are starters around the league right now, that shows something for their talent identification for DB's. Also just a cool factoid.

It's quite surprising how quickly people try to denounce former players though, I've just never gotten that.

Now, I am not sure that you are being serious. A shutdown corner, if he is a good one, eventually dictates how an offence rolls. Remember Rod Hill?? He had a season where he lead the league in intercepts. The next year his picks were way down. Reason..no QB in his right mind would throw at him..it was a very risky proposition to try to throw in his area. Do you remember when the Bombers would send him man to man on the opposition's best receiver?..in effect taking that player out of the game. Contrast that with Johnson..who ..even in his prime..was the victim of deep balls. He was a gambler..when he guessed right..he could burn a QB but when he guessed wrong, well beat deep again. The year he won DMOP, I can still remember the local media and the suggestion that we pulled one over on the league and that he won because..hands down..he was the best returner in the league..that needed some recognition. Sure, he was a Bomber and I was happy that he won it BUT along with many others, felt that he won it based on his kick returns and some big play intercepts caused by gambling and guessing right. I don't think he left us over an unreasonable contract dispute but rather the Bombers realizing that the big play returns and intercepts had pretty much run their course and they were tired of watching him getting beat deep when he guessed wrong.The last time I saw him play..what I saw was the same player playing around the same level as he played here..not the best and not the worst.

Your point about all the ex-Bomber DBs in the league is interesting. It's too bad that our scouts don't have a clue when evaluating QBs. McMannus was the last starter that the Bombers brought into the league I believe. Ouch that hurts..you would think that over the years we would stumble upon one...even a blind squirrel can occasionally find a nut.
 

Holden Caulfield

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Now, I am not sure that you are being serious. A shutdown corner, if he is a good one, eventually dictates how an offence rolls. Remember Rod Hill?? He had a season where he lead the league in intercepts. The next year his picks were way down. Reason..no QB in his right mind would throw at him..it was a very risky proposition to try to throw in his area. Do you remember when the Bombers would send him man to man on the opposition's best receiver?..in effect taking that player out of the game. Contrast that with Johnson..who ..even in his prime..was the victim of deep balls. He was a gambler..when he guessed right..he could burn a QB but when he guessed wrong, well beat deep again. The year he won DMOP, I can still remember the local media and the suggestion that we pulled one over on the league and that he won because..hands down..he was the best returner in the league..that needed some recognition. Sure, he was a Bomber and I was happy that he won it BUT along with many others, felt that he won it based on his kick returns and some big play intercepts caused by gambling and guessing right. I don't think he left us over an unreasonable contract dispute but rather the Bombers realizing that the big play returns and intercepts had pretty much run their course and they were tired of watching him getting beat deep when he guessed wrong.The last time I saw him play..what I saw was the same player playing around the same level as he played here..not the best and not the worst.

Your point about all the ex-Bomber DBs in the league is interesting. It's too bad that our scouts don't have a clue when evaluating QBs. McMannus was the last starter that the Bombers brought into the league I believe. Ouch that hurts..you would think that over the years we would stumble upon one...even a blind squirrel can occasionally find a nut.

He had 8 interceptions in 2011. The next year he had 1. For that exact reason you mentioned. No one threw short side on us. He was very explosive. If as you say he depended on gambling, speed and returns he still wouldn't be playing. As at 33 he has slowed down quite a bit, no longer returns, and doesn't really gamble anymore due to that lack of speed. Yet he is still a solid if unspectacular corner. He was the best DB we've had since Juran Boldin in the early 00's. BTW in 2011 Johnson was our nominee for Special Teams, Defensive Player, and Most Outstanding. He only won the Defensive Player. He ended up released because Joe Mack was a moron of epic porportions that destroyed the team. He was starting to slow down and was no longer elite like he had been then but still part of Mack dismantling the team.

It's so true about Bombers QBs. It's really odd but it seems like teams (for pretty long periods) only specialize in certain areas and then those players spread across leagues. BC/CGY/TOR right now brought in most QB's in the league*. For a long while the Bombers were getting all the WR, less so lately. Edmonton has completely failed to bring a RB for well over a decade now. It's just one of those odd things it seems.

*= I've decided to look at this cause why not. All #1 and #2 QB's listed.
BC - Lulay = BC
BC - Jennings = BC
EDM - Reilly = BC
EDM - Franklin = EDM
CGY - Mitchell = CGY
CGY - Stanzi = CGY
SSK - Glenn = SSK
SSK - Adams = BC
WPG - Nichols = EDM
WPG - Davis = CGY
HAM - Collaros = TOR
HAM - Masoli = EDM
TOR - Ray = EDM
TOR - Fajardo = TOR
OTT - Harris = TOR
OTT - Tate = CGY
MTL - Durant = HAM
MTL - Willy = SSK

Numbers (parentheses in # of starters)
BC - 4 (2)
EDM - 4 (2)
CGY - 4 (1)
SSK - 2 (1)
WPG - 0
HAM - 1 (1)
TOR - 3 (2)
OTT - 0
MTL - 0

Of note I counted Durant and Adams as the team who had neg list rights to them and traded them immediately before the player signed. The player is clearly already coming north at that point. It's kinda funny, Hamilton got Durant's rights during the dispersal draft from the Ottawa Renegades then traded him for Corey Holmes just before Durant came north.
 

Fairview

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He had 8 interceptions in 2011. The next year he had 1. For that exact reason you mentioned. No one threw short side on us. He was very explosive. If as you say he depended on gambling, speed and returns he still wouldn't be playing. As at 33 he has slowed down quite a bit, no longer returns, and doesn't really gamble anymore due to that lack of speed. Yet he is still a solid if unspectacular corner. He was the best DB we've had since Juran Boldin in the early 00's. BTW in 2011 Johnson was our nominee for Special Teams, Defensive Player, and Most Outstanding. He only won the Defensive Player. He ended up released because Joe Mack was a moron of epic porportions that destroyed the team. He was starting to slow down and was no longer elite like he had been then but still part of Mack dismantling the team.

It's so true about Bombers QBs. It's really odd but it seems like teams (for pretty long periods) only specialize in certain areas and then those players spread across leagues. BC/CGY/TOR right now brought in most QB's in the league*. For a long while the Bombers were getting all the WR, less so lately. Edmonton has completely failed to bring a RB for well over a decade now. It's just one of those odd things it seems.

*= I've decided to look at this cause why not. All #1 and #2 QB's listed.
BC - Lulay = BC
BC - Jennings = BC
EDM - Reilly = BC
EDM - Franklin = EDM
CGY - Mitchell = CGY
CGY - Stanzi = CGY
SSK - Glenn = SSK
SSK - Adams = BC
WPG - Nichols = EDM
WPG - Davis = CGY
HAM - Collaros = TOR
HAM - Masoli = EDM
TOR - Ray = EDM
TOR - Fajardo = TOR
OTT - Harris = TOR
OTT - Tate = CGY
MTL - Durant = HAM
MTL - Willy = SSK

Numbers (parentheses in # of starters)
BC - 4 (2)
EDM - 4 (2)
CGY - 4 (1)
SSK - 2 (1)
WPG - 0
HAM - 1 (1)
TOR - 3 (2)
OTT - 0
MTL - 0

Of note I counted Durant and Adams as the team who had neg list rights to them and traded them immediately before the player signed. The player is clearly already coming north at that point. It's kinda funny, Hamilton got Durant's rights during the dispersal draft from the Ottawa Renegades then traded him for Corey Holmes just before Durant came north.

Well, I remember a different JJ than you do. Even when he played with us..I wasn't a fan.I remember him being beat deep quite a bit when he was here. I think and hope that was the reason the Bombers parted ways with him. The Johnson that I have watched since he left us is the same guy that I remember when he was here. Maybe I saw him wrong or am seeing him wrong now but that is my recollection.
I remember a guy that was outstanding on returns..I don't think I am remembering that wrong..yet I distinctly remember thinking that the Bombers played him on defense more because of an import ratio thing than because of any great covering ability. The last time I saw him..I saw a guy that plays a soft cautionary style using his experience to cover up his now physical shortcomings.Still susceptible to the deep ball.
I don't hate him because he is an ex-Bomber..I am just glad that we got rid of him when we did...I don't follow him since he left us and only notice him if his team happens to be playing in a game that I am watching or when he plays against the Bombers. The same can be said for the other DBs you mention. I don't know where they are playing now..nor do I care. Don't hate them..just don't care about them.

The receiver thing was cool during it's time..during Cal Murphy days it really was RBs. Any guy we would plug in there back in the day was a lock for rushing leader..in hindsight, maybe that was due to Walby and friends:)...I am starting to get the feeling that this O-Line might have a chance to dominate like the good old days.
With Nichols..since last year, I kind of see a Tom Burgess type...and that is a good thing..I am not sure but IIRC Burgess was the #1 Sask QB who lost his job and ended up coming to Winnipeg like Nichols in Edm...Same kind of attributes as Nichols not the greatest at anything but solid in most areas and did what was needed to win.
 

Holden Caulfield

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Not sure how a guy who won DPOY and had 8 picks could be considered just in for the ratio, but alas I'm tired of rehashing the same arguments. Just FYI Johnson was moved off the returning duties in his last two years in WPG.

Calgary has a really good defense. They might not be as completely overwhelming as last year, but that is still a really damn good team. And the team to beat in the CFL, IMO.
 
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