Blash

lomekian

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Oct 28, 2013
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From the Florida Thread

I know this is a mediocre to weak roster, but apart from that one good run of games, Blash has them painful to watch. Has anyone objectively improved on his watch? If Blash doesn't get the can before next season, I might have to start actively missing games. No puck support, no interplay in the neutral zone...just north south and perimeter and dump. Even the powerplay has gone back to people in set positions and straight lines, when it was proving more effective before when there was more rotation.

The only team element that is working reasonably well is Larkin's line driving possession and Neilsen's line frustrating other forwards. the 11/7 is now a joke, and Z's line is just bad despite all 3 players doing their best. Z needs size or speed, and he's not really got either with him.

As for our D...its either hail mary stretch passes or chip it out and dump it in. Bar decent use of speed, Blash can't stick with something more progressive, and it always reverts to all the bad bits of Babs as soon as results go badly or pressure kicks in.

I'd be astounded if another coach couldn't make this roster more entertaining to watch.
 

Shaman464

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At this point keep him till the end of the season and hope it gets them Dahlin then can him. Even if he's only about 1/3rd of the problem, he's still a major part of it.
 

lomekian

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Oct 28, 2013
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At this point keep him till the end of the season and hope it gets them Dahlin then can him. Even if he's only about 1/3rd of the problem, he's still a major part of it.

For sure, there's little point canning him now unless it gets toxic (or until a decision has been made about KH anyway).
 

Hatter of the Beach

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At this point keep him till the end of the season and hope it gets them Dahlin then can him. Even if he's only about 1/3rd of the problem, he's still a major part of it.


We’re going to comfortably be a bottom 3-7 team regardless of coaching. Is it really worth ostracising and demoralizing our players for a few extra percentage points of winning a lotto? The team has visibly given up on Blash, and most of our young players have had issues with him. An interim coach may be better for their enthusiasm alone
 

theYman

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Feb 28, 2008
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Does Blashill have any plan whatsoever to prepare this team to play a certain system of hockey at all?? What is he doing? At least make the games entertaining. Surley Tatar and Nyquist can't be this bad on burying a puck once in awhile. f***!!
 
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Shaman464

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We’re going to comfortably be a bottom 3-7 team regardless of coaching. Is it really worth ostracising and demoralizing our players for a few extra percentage points of winning a lotto? The team has visibly given up on Blash, and most of our young players have had issues with him. An interim coach may be better for their enthusiasm alone


We can speculate at who likes whom. Right now there isn't even concrete rumors of a mutiny and with Detroit's media turning on the Wings and a couple semi-reputable sources in the blogosphere, I think we would hear some rumors by now. Bringing in an interim coach with the pressure from Holland to make the playoffs, it either completely demoralizes the team or if this is all Blashill the team in a very weak Atlantic squeaks into the playoffs. Until there is real evidence that the young players actively hating Blash, bring in a new coach is somewhere between rearranging chairs on the Titanic, to making this corpse float at the worst possible time.
 
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Hatter of the Beach

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We can speculate at who likes whom. Right now there isn't even concrete rumors of a mutiny and with Detroit's media turning on the Wings and a couple semi-reputable sources in the blogosphere, I think we would hear some rumors by now. Bringing in an interim coach with the pressure from Holland to make the playoffs, it either completely demoralizes the team or if this is all Blashill the team in a very weak Atlantic squeaks into the playoffs. Until there is real evidence that the young players actively hating Blash, bring in a new coach is somewhere between rearranging chairs on the Titanic, to making this corpse float at the worst possible time.
Indifference provides less effort than out right hatred. Every single player on tbe Wings knows he will not be here next year, and that they’re not making the playoffs. They aren’t stupid.

No one is “giving it their all” to play for or save the job of Braindead Blashill.
 

Reddwit

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If we’re going to lose games left and right regardless of how we play defensively then we need to adjust our system: Activate our defense. Rely heavily on the kids. Emphasize puck possession in the offensive zone and physicality when deep in the defensive. No one cares about plus/minus on the team with the worst defense. No one cares about goals against on a team with goaltenders who have no trade value. But people do care about the best players on the team looking good and playing entertaining hockey and people do care about the best trade chips having a pretty stat line. On this team, all of the best players AND the best trade chips play an offensive game. For the good of the future of the organization, in terms of player development, fan engagement, and having valuable trade assets, this team needs to figure out a way to play some god damn offensively productive hockey. Defense be damned.
 

Shaman464

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Indifference provides less effort than out right hatred. Every single player on tbe Wings knows he will not be here next year, and that they’re not making the playoffs. They aren’t stupid.

No one is “giving it their all” to play for Braindead Blashill.

So what? They also know anyone brought in on the interim basis will be facing the same pressure as Blash and about the same amount of job security. Blash is a problem, but the problem is systemic. Blash is being told from above that their goal is the #3 seed in the Atlantic. He has to build a game plan around that organizational goal, at the expense of other objectives. Any interim coach would necessarily have to do the same thing. And to have any chance at sniffing the playoffs any coach will be doing nearly the same thing as Blash. Because this team has to be perfect, it has to play defense first, it will have to play its vets, and that will usually lead to these boring 2 goal games we've seen where they go to OT, or the shootout, because getting as many points as possible is the priority.
 

Shaman464

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If we’re going to lose games left and right regardless of how we play defensively then we need to adjust our system: Activate our defense. Rely heavily on the kids. Emphasize puck possession in the offensive zone and physicality when deep in the defensive. No one cares about plus/minus on the team with the worst defense. No one cares about goals against on a team with goaltenders who have no trade value. But people do care about the best players on the team looking good and playing entertaining hockey and people do care about the best trade chips having a pretty stat line. On this team, all of the best players AND the best trade chips play an offensive game. For the good of the future of the organization, in terms of player development, fan engagement, and having valuable trade assets, this team needs to figure out a way to play some god damn offensively productive hockey. Defense be damned.

Except that hangs out Howard or Mrazek to dry with no organizational back up plan. It also starts to teach kids the wrong ways to play, and the fact none them are Kanes or Ovies its not like they can float and its okay. Finally the team will get shelled most games, because they can't afford to play run and gun, they don't have a Datsyukesque center that can support that anymore.
 

Winger98

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Except that hangs out Howard or Mrazek to dry with no organizational back up plan. It also starts to teach kids the wrong ways to play, and the fact none them are Kanes or Ovies its not like they can float and its okay. Finally the team will get shelled most games, because they can't afford to play run and gun, they don't have a Datsyukesque center that can support that anymore.

The past ten or so games they've been getting shelled quite often anyway. I have some sympathy for the argument to at least lose entertainingly. At some point, it might be time to make room for McIlrath and at least play a more violent game on a nightly basis.
 
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Shaman464

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The past ten or so games they've been getting shelled quite often anyway. I have some sympathy for the argument to at least lose entertainingly. At some point, it might be time to make room for McIlrath and at least play a more violent game on a nightly basis.

The team isn't going to be that entertaining, because they just don't have the talent to play a run and gun offense against most teams. Itll work sometimes, but most of the time it will be pathetic.
 

Reddwit

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Except that hangs out Howard or Mrazek to dry with no organizational back up plan. It also starts to teach kids the wrong ways to play, and the fact none them are Kanes or Ovies its not like they can float and its okay. Finally the team will get shelled most games, because they can't afford to play run and gun, they don't have a Datsyukesque center that can support that anymore.

Who cares about hanging our goalies out to dry? First of all, we do that anyway, and second of all, neither of them are part of the future. Again - who cares?

And who says it teaches the kids the wrong way to play? The Wings were the kings of offensive puck possession hockey when Scotty Bowman essentially crafted the two-way top six center persona. You can be offensively inclined and still be aware of your defensive responsibilities and effective at them. The idea that there is some kind of dichotomy there is bologna. The most recent Cup winners had a modest D core assembled and played an offensive puck-possession game through and through. If they can win the Cup doing so with their epic offense, we sure as shit can skew the scoreboard towards more 3-4 losses than 1-4 beatings with our relatively effective forward offerings. There's a reason puck-possession has become the barometer for pro hockey efficacy in this league and not some catch-all statistic aggregating blocked shots, PK percentage, and saves.

Lastly, where the f*** has "playing the right way" gotten this team? You know who plays the "right way" on this team? Glendening, Helm, Kronwall, Ericsson, Zetterberg, Abdelkader - a bunch of guys wearing Cs, As, and alternates and they've gotten us to the bottom of the barrel 2 years in a row despite being paid an assload to play "the right way."
 

Shaman464

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Who cares about hanging our goalies out to dry? First of all, we do that anyway, and second of all, neither of them are part of the future. Again - who cares?

And who says it teaches the kids the wrong way to play? The Wings were the kings of offensive puck possession hockey when Scotty Bowman essentially crafted the two-way top six center persona. You can be offensively inclined and still be aware of your defensive responsibilities and effective at them. The idea that there is some kind of dichotomy there is bologna. The most recent Cup winners had a modest D core assembled and played an offensive puck-possession game through and through. If they can win the Cup doing so with their epic offense, we sure as **** can skew the scoreboard towards more 3-4 losses than 1-4 beatings with our relatively effective forward offerings. There's a reason puck-possession has become the barometer for pro hockey efficacy in this league and not some catch-all statistic aggregating blocked shots, PK percentage, and saves.

Lastly, where the **** has "playing the right way" gotten this team? You know who plays the "right way" on this team? Glendening, Helm, Kronwall, Ericsson, Zetterberg, Abdelkader - a bunch of guys wearing Cs, As, and alternates and they've gotten us to the bottom of the barrel 2 years in a row despite being paid an assload to play "the right way."

Yeah comparing teams with elite to generational players to this team makes a ton of sense. Detroit was able to do it with two of the best centers ever to play the game and a defense that featured the second best defenseman ever. Going back the to 2010 most of the teams either relied on amazing defenses or played good team defense and had generational players leading their offense.
 

Reddwit

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So what? They also know anyone brought in on the interim basis will be facing the same pressure as Blash and about the same amount of job security. Blash is a problem, but the problem is systemic. Blash is being told from above that their goal is the #3 seed in the Atlantic. He has to build a game plan around that organizational goal, at the expense of other objectives. Any interim coach would necessarily have to do the same thing. And to have any chance at sniffing the playoffs any coach will be doing nearly the same thing as Blash. Because this team has to be perfect, it has to play defense first, it will have to play its vets, and that will usually lead to these boring 2 goal games we've seen where they go to OT, or the shootout, because getting as many points as possible is the priority.

Oh, come on. No interim coach hired by a team outside of the playoff picture with a mediocre-at-best roster is facing the same pressure as the coach who manned said team into the toilet the previous 2.5 years. That hiring is essentially a tryout: Does he do better than the previous coach? Is there more player harmony in the locker room? Are more players thriving or developing individually under him? There is certainly pressure there to be an effective, well-liked coach in a short amount of time but its ridiculous - hilarious even - to say anyone replacing Blash "will be facing the same pressure as Blash."

Also, any coach replacing Blashill will not have the same directives. If Blashill is replaced, it will be because the season is already over. Hell, the season already IS over. (And, as I've said before, I think the only reason Blashill will be replaced later rather than sooner is because the longer he is employed, the longer he - and not Holland - takes the heat from the general public.) Whoever replaces Blashill will have a completely different role, and it will be whatever role management deems best for the off-season and/or the future. That certainly wont be grinding the veterans down into nubs while we lose 80% of our games in boring, deplorable fashion.
 

Reddwit

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Yeah comparing teams with elite to generational players to this team makes a ton of sense. Detroit was able to do it with two of the best centers ever to play the game and a defense that featured the second best defenseman ever. Going back the to 2010 most of the teams either relied on amazing defenses or played good team defense and had generational players leading their offense.

Dude, reading comp. I clearly said if that team can win the Cup with that offense, then we can lose games while scoring more goals with our offense. There's a gargantuan degradation there, but the comparison remains. Great offenses and bad defenses can win Cups. Surely good offenses and shitty defenses can score a few more goals.
 

Reddwit

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The team isn't going to be that entertaining, because they just don't have the talent to play a run and gun offense against most teams. Itll work sometimes, but most of the time it will be pathetic.

We've already BEEN pathetic. Why the f*** wouldn't you give run-and-gun offense a try (even though no one is advocating run-and-gun but puck-possession) when the current system is still leading to 1-10 losses?
 

Shaman464

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Oh, come on. No interim coach hired by a team outside of the playoff picture with a mediocre-at-best roster is facing the same pressure as the coach who manned said team into the toilet the previous 2.5 years. That hiring is essentially a tryout: Does he do better than the previous coach? Is there more player harmony in the locker room? Are more players thriving or developing individually under him? There is certainly pressure there to be an effective, well-liked coach in a short amount of time but its ridiculous - hilarious even - to say anyone replacing Blash "will be facing the same pressure as Blash."

Also, any coach replacing Blashill will not have the same directives. If Blashill is replaced, it will be because the season is already over. Hell, the season already IS over. (And, as I've said before, I think the only reason Blashill will be replaced later rather than sooner is because the longer he is employed, the longer he - and not Holland - takes the heat from the general public.) Whoever replaces Blashill will have a completely different role, and it will be whatever role management deems best for the off-season and/or the future. That certainly wont be grinding the veterans down into nubs while we lose 80% of our games in boring, deplorable fashion.

It seems you are completely disconnected from reality. The orders from the front office is playoffs. Any move they make will be one that will, in their mind, increase their chances of that. Their moves to this point have pointed to a belief in the fact that this team, at its best, is a playoff team. Why would Holland when all words and actions to this point show he believes last season was an aberration, decide to make a change of heart? And all you have to this point is baseless speculation and grass is always greener outlook. There is no reason to believe any coach will come in and magically fix anything, and without showing any evidence that Holland will give a new coach any more of a leash than Blash has, there is no reason to believe anything you said is likely to happen if they do can Blash.
 

Shaman464

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Dude, reading comp. I clearly said if that team can win the Cup with that offense, then we can lose games while scoring more goals with our offense. There's a gargantuan degradation there, but the comparison remains. Great offenses and bad defenses can win Cups. Surely good offenses and ****ty defenses can score a few more goals.

Because all you are doing is speculating, it is equally possible that they lose those games 15-1. The team only has been this *good* because they have focused on playing a conservative game. Open it up and every game becomes a shelling. There is no logical connection between what a SC winning team can do and what would happen to the Wings if they tried to do the same thing.
 

Reddwit

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It seems you are completely disconnected from reality. The orders from the front office is playoffs. Any move they make will be one that will, in their mind, increase their chances of that. Their moves to this point have pointed to a belief in the fact that this team, at its best, is a playoff team. Why would Holland when all words and actions to this point show he believes last season was an aberration, decide to make a change of heart? And all you have to this point is baseless speculation and grass is always greener outlook. There is no reason to believe any coach will come in and magically fix anything, and without showing any evidence that Holland will give a new coach any more of a leash than Blash has, there is no reason to believe anything you said is likely to happen if they do can Blash.

Dude, what are you talking about? I'M out of touch with reality?? Did you miss the last TEN games where we won ONE whole game? Did you miss Ken Holland's incessant talks about Thanksgiving being the cut-off for playoff hopes, then the beginning of December being the cut-off for playoff hopes over the past few years? We are 10 minutes away from December 12th - solidly the middle of December - and we are the FIFTH WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE!!! You either (a) think that Holland is absolutely, unequivocally insane and thinks that we can still make the playoffs, or (b) think that Holland is so incompetent and out-of-touch that his playoff directives at the beginning of the season still hold true to this moment and he hasn't adapted his gameplan to the results!
 

Reddwit

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Because all you are doing is speculating, it is equally possible that they lose those games 15-1. The team only has been this *good* because they have focused on playing a conservative game. Open it up and every game becomes a shelling. There is no logical connection between what a SC winning team can do and what would happen to the Wings if they tried to do the same thing.

First of all, I'm talking about playing the same style of system with a team who has the same strengths and weaknesses.

Second, no it is not equally possible that they lose games 15-1, unless you can point me to any team in the modern era that has lost 1-15 while also employing a puck-possession game with emphasis on back-checking and two-way play.

Edit: Ultimately, we're back at this false dichotomy that you think exists: if you play an offensive puck-possession game, you must also absolve yourself of all defensive duties and perpetually hang your goalie out to dry.
 
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Shaman464

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Dude, what are you talking about? I'M out of touch with reality?? Did you miss the last TEN games where we won ONE whole game? Did you miss Ken Holland's incessant talks about Thanksgiving being the cut-off for playoff hopes, then the beginning of December being the cut-off for playoff hopes over the past few years? We are 10 minutes away from December 12th - solidly the middle of December - and we are the FIFTH WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE!!! You either (a) think that Holland is absolutely, unequivocally insane and thinks that we can still make the playoffs, or (b) think that Holland is so incompetent and out-of-touch that his playoff directives at the beginning of the season still hold true to this moment and he hasn't adapted his gameplan to the results!

Holland sees a team that is only 4 points out of a playoff spot in a very weak division. This is the 5th worse team in the NHL but its also in a trainwreck of a division. He is still talking about how anything can happen, that is 100% him saying that he still believes this team has a chance, and likely will if they continue to be within 5-8 points of a playoff spot.
 

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