Blake Wheeler can imagine bringing the Stanley Cup to Winnipeg

[Adam da bomb]

Connor and Roslo only = 7.5 combined if they are on bridge deals - or if their play seriously disappoints between now and contract time.

My guess is that 4 years is the minimum time he would accept.
If Chevy goes into negotiation with him taking that kind of hard-ass attitude he will leave, even if Chevy raises the offer.

6.5 or 7 doesn't make a lot of difference to our cap situation. You would lose our Captain over a half mil?

I don't think Roslo or Connor has time to earn that big contract as they will only have played one season in the NHL. Roslo less than a full season. That does not earn you more than 3.5-4. 2 For the price of one. So yes, if that's the case I will lose our captain. Also chances are we are going to have to bridge someone.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Connor and Roslo only = 7.5 combined if they are on bridge deals - or if their play seriously disappoints between now and contract time.

My guess is that 4 years is the minimum time he would accept.
If Chevy goes into negotiation with him taking that kind of hard-ass attitude he will leave, even if Chevy raises the offer.

6.5 or 7 doesn't make a lot of difference to our cap situation. You would lose our Captain over a half mil?

Also its 1mil more than 6.5

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't think Roslo or Connor has time to earn that big contract as they will only have played one season in the NHL. Roslo less than a full season. That does not earn you more than 3.5-4. 2 For the price of one. So yes, if that's the case I will lose our captain. Also chances are we are going to have to bridge someone.

We may well bridge both Connor and Roslovic. I think better them than Morrissey.

Jets have locked up some young players, Ehlers for example, before their last ELC season starts. In Connor's case that would mean this off-season. Connor is not scoring quite as well in his 2nd ELC season as Ehlers did in his but it is close enough he might catch up. Don't know if Chevy will want to get him signed this off-season or not. If it is to be a bridge then I would guess not. Roslovic has 1 year more to go than Connor does so may have time to earn the bigger contract before his last ELC season. Again, I would guess not and a bridge deal.

With both of them bridged at =<3 mil there will be room for Wheeler - at a fair AAV. He might be willing to give up a little $$$ to stay with the team. I think that expecting players to take huge discounts 'for the team' is just silly. How many millions would you give up in their shoes?

 

[Adam da bomb]

We may well bridge both Connor and Roslovic. I think better them than Morrissey.

Jets have locked up some young players, Ehlers for example, before their last ELC season starts. In Connor's case that would mean this off-season. Connor is not scoring quite as well in his 2nd ELC season as Ehlers did in his but it is close enough he might catch up. Don't know if Chevy will want to get him signed this off-season or not. If it is to be a bridge then I would guess not. Roslovic has 1 year more to go than Connor does so may have time to earn the bigger contract before his last ELC season. Again, I would guess not and a bridge deal.

With both of them bridged at =<3 mil there will be room for Wheeler - at a fair AAV. He might be willing to give up a little $$$ to stay with the team. I think that expecting players to take huge discounts 'for the team' is just silly. How many millions would you give up in their shoes?

I'm getting paid millions ha! I don't expect Wheeler to give up millions I question signing someone getting up there in years for a lot of money when we can do without. There are many nights when he's not even the best forward now. In future years he is only going to decline. I would rather sign Roslo and Connor long term than have a few more years with Wheeler. I would also do what you suggested and trade one of them for their equivalent at D. Not Roslo as he is a future Center.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Also its 1mil more than 6.5

7 isn't.
I would go a little more than 7. At some point you have to draw a line. You can't keep saying that it is only 500k more, indefinitely. So pick a number. I would say it might go to 7.25. You seem to think it might be 6.5. Neither of us knows. It is also affected by term. Maybe he takes 6.5, but at that AAV it requires 5 years. That's 32.5 mil. Maybe that is the number he cares about. For 4 years that = 8.125 mil, for 3 years it = 10.8333 mil.

4 years would have his next contract expire the same time as Toews' contract. I think I would rather be paying Wheeler 8.125 for those years than be paying Toews 10.5 for the same years. But I wouldn't go quite that high on Wheels.

 

[robertocarlos]

If he does it this year then he better repeat next year.

 

[Adam da bomb]

7 isn't.
I would go a little more than 7. At some point you have to draw a line. You can't keep saying that it is only 500k more, indefinitely. So pick a number. I would say it might go to 7.25. You seem to think it might be 6.5. Neither of us knows. It is also affected by term. Maybe he takes 6.5, but at that AAV it requires 5 years. That's 32.5 mil. Maybe that is the number he cares about. For 4 years that = 8.125 mil, for 3 years it = 10.8333 mil.

4 years would have his next contract expire the same time as Toews' contract. I think I would rather be paying Wheeler 8.125 for those years than be paying Toews 10.5 for the same years. But I wouldn't go quite that high on Wheels.

Look at how much more Toews has accomplished. A number of Stanley cup finals, 3 Stanley cups. Wheeler doesn't have one. Toews has been the MVP in the league I believe, Wheeler, not. My hardline is 7 if he doesn't take it I move along. For Christ sake this year is the first year that he has even gone to the All Star game. How are we talking about 8mil?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Look at how much more Toews has accomplished. A number of Stanley cup finals, 3 Stanley cups. Wheeler doesn't have one. Toews has been the MVP in the league I believe, Wheeler, not. My hardline is 7 if he doesn't take it I move along. For Christ sake this year is the first year that he has even gone to the All Star game. How are we talking about 8mil?

I'm not talking 8 mil. I just pointed out that the total value of the contract may be the important number to him and that number relates to term. I said my max number was 7.25. You have now accepted that it could be 7. So now we differ only by a quarter mil per year. But also 1 year in term. 7.25x4 = 29, or over 5 years instead = 5.8.

Would you be willing to go a little longer if it kept the AAV down? If you are in negotiations and the 2 positions are: yours, 3x7 and his 3x8 would you offer an extra year to get him to accept your AAV number? Or would you be a hardass, knowing that he could probably get 5x7.5 on the UFA market? (I'm just making that up. I don't know what the UFA market might pay him by then. It might be that. Depends on his play between now and then, among other things.)

I don't care what either player has done in the past - not in this context. I'm talking about what they are doing now and likely to do in those last 4 years of Toews' contract. Would you take Toews at 10.5 over Wheeler at 8.125 for those 4 years? Right now Toews is on a 53 pt pace. Wheeler is on an 88 pt pace. Just to be clear, I am not advocating paying Wheeler 8+ mil.

 

[Babooch]

5 years x 6.8 from the Jets. Chevy has properly established pay scales for star players, both ELC and veterans. IMO we have no superstars on this team that can produce all by themselves game in/game out. 7 or 8M is unreasonable at his age and abilities.

I like the aging Wheeler for a new five year term, he has shown no signs of health/injury risk.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I'm not talking 8 mil. I just pointed out that the total value of the contract may be the important number to him and that number relates to term. I said my max number was 7.25. You have now accepted that it could be 7. So now we differ only by a quarter mil per year. But also 1 year in term. 7.25x4 = 29, or over 5 years instead = 5.8.

Would you be willing to go a little longer if it kept the AAV down? If you are in negotiations and the 2 positions are: yours, 3x7 and his 3x8 would you offer an extra year to get him to accept your AAV number? Or would you be a hardass, knowing that he could probably get 5x7.5 on the UFA market? (I'm just making that up. I don't know what the UFA market might pay him by then. It might be that. Depends on his play between now and then, among other things.)

I don't care what either player has done in the past - not in this context. I'm talking about what they are doing now and likely to do in those last 4 years of Toews' contract. Would you take Toews at 10.5 over Wheeler at 8.125 for those 4 years? Right now Toews is on a 53 pt pace. Wheeler is on an 88 pt pace. Just to be clear, I am not advocating paying Wheeler 8+ mil.

Toews is not just signing his deal now. But in this context, you offer me a guy with 3 cups who knows how to win it all then I'm taking Toews. Don't even get me started on how much better it would be for marketing good local boy whose made a huge superstar over his career and wants to end his career in his home city. I would personally be a hard ass and tell him have fun going somewhere that has no chance of winning a cup because if they have that kind of salary room chances are they are a team like Florida, not going to compete for those last 5 years.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Toews is not just signing his deal now. But in this context, you offer me a guy with 3 cups who knows how to win it all then I'm taking Toews. Don't even get me started on how much better it would be for marketing good local boy whose made a huge superstar over his career and wants to end his career in his home city. I would personally be a hard ass and tell him have fun going somewhere that has no chance of winning a cup because if they have that kind of salary room chances are they are a team like Florida, not going to compete for those last 5 years.

OK, have it your way.

 

[Adam da bomb]

OK, have it your way.

Well can you see any competing teams with 7.5 million in their salary cap to spare? The competing teams TB 6mil in cap room Nash (10 mil. Do you think they would spend it on Wheeler?) St. Louis, 2 mil. Pittsburgh less than a mil Boston 1.75 mil. So sure if he wants to spend the rest of his career as a Coyote. Hurricane. When he has gone on record when what he really wants to do is win a cup. I think I'm being extremely generous by going up to 7mil. If he had signed a 7mil contract a few years ago, I would be like oh well whats done is done but over 30 one all-star game no championship rings. He can have closer to what Perrault and Little are getting.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well can you see any competing teams with 7.5 million in their salary cap to spare? The competing teams TB 6mil in cap room Nash (10 mil. Do you think they would spend it on Wheeler?) St. Louis, 2 mil. Pittsburgh less than a mil Boston 1.75 mil. So sure if he wants to spend the rest of his career as a Coyote. Hurricane. When he has gone on record when what he really wants to do is win a cup. I think I'm being extremely generous by going up to 7mil. If he had signed a 7mil contract a few years ago, I would be like oh well whats done is done but over 30 one all-star game no championship rings. He can have closer to what Perrault and Little are getting.

So you are going to take advantage of his expressed desire to win a cup to screw him over?

 

[Adam da bomb]

So you are going to take advantage of his expressed desire to win a cup to screw him over?

You never answered my question of which other contender could afford him. Also it's not screwing over. Everyone wins if he accepts 6.8 I don't see a loser.

So you are going to take advantage of his expressed desire to win a cup to screw him over?

Let's put it this way over the next 4 years I don't think Wheeler is going to be the top guy. So my choices of signing players who we have who need a new contract
Mo Trouba Laine Connor Roslovic Lowry etc Wheeler falls somewhere in like 8th. That means I am going to offer a contract that works out to around 6 -6.8 mil I clearly don't see that as taking advantage of the guy to say accept the money or find another team. But we most likely are going to win so you might want to stick around for it. That's what I do. Chevy is extremely loyal and loves his vets so will be much more generous to the point of losing someone good to sign the old guy.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Let's put it this way over the next 4 years I don't think Wheeler is going to be the top guy. So my choices of signing players who we have who need a new contract
Mo Trouba Laine Connor Roslovic Lowry etc Wheeler falls somewhere in like 8th. That means I am going to offer a contract that works out to around 6 -6.8 mil I clearly don't see that as taking advantage of the guy to say accept the money or find another team. But we most likely are going to win so you might want to stick around for it. That's what I do. Chevy is extremely loyal and loves his vets so will be much more generous to the point of losing someone good to sign the old guy.

I think that choosing to trade Wheeler rather than signing a 33 YO for a lot of money over several years is a valid position. I don't think your original contract offer is realistic. If that is what you are willing to offer then I think you are really saying you are not willing to sign him. So trade him in the off-season while he is still under contract and still has trade value.

You are, of course entitled to disagree, but stop trying to persuade me. I won't agree until he signs for 3x6.5.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I think that choosing to trade Wheeler rather than signing a 33 YO for a lot of money over several years is a valid position. I don't think your original contract offer is realistic. If that is what you are willing to offer then I think you are really saying you are not willing to sign him. So trade him in the off-season while he is still under contract and still has trade value.

You are, of course entitled to disagree, but stop trying to persuade me. I won't agree until he signs for 3x6.5.

I said I'd be fine at 6.8 and you said I was trying to screw the guy over.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I said I'd be fine at 6.8 and you said I was trying to screw the guy over.

You described using his desire to win a cup as leverage to get him to take a lesser contract. What term would you prefer I use to describe it?

You started with 3x6.5 and a take it leave it tone. You have moved the goalposts more than once. Are you still at a max 3 years? If so you are still trying to back him into a corner and get him for much less than he could get on the open market. I call that screwing him over. You call it whatever you choose.

We have each expressed our opinions and there doesn't appear to be any common ground. So lets quit.

 

[Adam da bomb]

You described using his desire to win a cup as leverage to get him to take a lesser contract. What term would you prefer I use to describe it?

You started with 3x6.5 and a take it leave it tone. You have moved the goalposts more than once. Are you still at a max 3 years? If so you are still trying to back him into a corner and get him for much less than he could get on the open market. I call that screwing him over. You call it whatever you choose.

We have each expressed our opinions and there doesn't appear to be any common ground. So lets quit.

Except we agree on the amount how's that not common ground? And screwing over makes me sound vindictive and I resent that. I'm saying if he wants to win a cup that's the market. You are defending him as if he is your son and it's not all a business. If Florida can offer him more why should we be forced to pay that.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Final say. It's a business grow the heck up. Players want as much as they can get gms want to pay as little. There are other factors involved such as wanting a cup and quality of life. If you are not taking those things into consideration you are living in a fantasy world. Don't throw pity insults around like screwing someone over which is saying you'll pay one thing and then paying something else.

 

[bumblebeeman]

Blake Wheeler is the man and this team would be much worse without him.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Except we agree on the amount how's that not common ground? And screwing over makes me sound vindictive and I resent that. I'm saying if he wants to win a cup that's the market. You are defending him as if he is your son and it's not all a business. If Florida can offer him more why should we be forced to pay that.

If we agree on the amount then what are we arguing over? I raised that point a long way back. It seemed to have been rejected.

Screwing over does not imply 'vindictive', or at least isn't meant to. It is about taking advantage of someone because you can - not because you need, or want vindication. The NHL is a business and the bottom line dictates much of what is done. IMO, your original position took that too far. You modified that somewhat but still sounded like a very hard bargaining stance to me. There should be no need for hostility in negotiations between the long time, loyal, valued employee and the honest employer. At least not until one side or the other takes an extreme position.

No disrespect intended but in my opinion your original statement was 'hardassed'. You later described how the situation would permit forcing him to accept much less than market value. I called that screwing over - taking unfair advantage of the circumstances.

I have not insisted we match whatever is the highest offer the market might give him. I think we need to be in the same ballpark though. I'm suggesting he take a substantial cut - in order to stay with the organization and with his teammates and hopefully win a cup. I think you are suggesting he take a much bigger - IMO, too big - cut.

If all we are talking about here is a difference of a couple of 00k then we are close enough to call it agreement - and quit. If not then, as I said before, we have both expressed our opinions and can agree to disagree - and quit.

 

[robertocarlos]

Wants a Cup and quality of life. I'm signing with Florida.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I am only interested in signing Wheeler after we sign a top D as the team has been a gong show without Trouba. If paying Trouba and Morissey means letting Wheeler go, I'm all on board now.