Bill Clement says the owners and NHLPA are not as far apart as we all think

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shadoz19

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May 21, 2004
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Thunderstruck said:
The PA does not want 54% of the revenue. They offered 57% as a bribe in hopes of maintaining the inflationary system that would see their % continue to rise.

If the PA really only wanted 54% and to keep it there, this would be already decided.


The second the players were to agree on the concept of "cost-certainty", the owners would negotiate the percentage of revenues. Theres no way the owners have brought there best offer to the table at 54%.
 

SENSible1*

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Slewfoot said:
Gary Bettman will not accept a 'soft' cap. He only wants a 'hard' cap.


Incorrect. Daly, the chief negotiator for the NHL, stated emphatically that if the players put an NBA style soft cap on the table, the owners would gladly negotiate based on it.

Bettman has been clear on this issue. He wants, and will get, a link between salaries and revenue. The form it takes is up to the parties to negotiate. The longer the PA waits and the more money they pull out of the pie, the more punitive the terms will be.
 

FLYLine27*

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Thunderstruck said:
Incorrect. Daly, the chief negotiator for the NHL, stated emphatically that if the players put an NBA style soft cap on the table, the owners would gladly negotiate based on it.

.


Yea...they will Negotiate it right back to a Hard Cap.
 

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FLYLine4LIFE said:
Yea...they will Negotiate it right back to a Hard Cap.
So Goodenow isn't even competent enough to protect the PA's interests and keep the cap soft?
 

chara

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Mar 31, 2004
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shadoz19 said:
The second the players were to agree on the concept of "cost-certainty", the owners would negotiate the percentage of revenues. Theres no way the owners have brought there best offer to the table at 54%.

And this is where the tide will turn.

The players concede a salary cap, much reduced arbritration and rookie bonus money.

The owners concede the percentage of rollbacks, free agent group rules, "franchise" player exceptions, and severe penalties(money, draft picks,etc) for those clubs over the cap.

There's enough in the 2 current proposals to find middle ground. The players will find a new loophole or two to exploit and the owners will let them find them. I still believe a Stanley Cup will be awarded in June (probably late June)
 

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chara said:
And this is where the tide will turn.

The players concede a salary cap, much reduced arbritration and rookie bonus money.

The owners concede the percentage of rollbacks, free agent group rules, "franchise" player exceptions, and severe penalties(money, draft picks,etc) for those clubs over the cap.

There's enough in the 2 current proposals to find middle ground. The players will find a new loophole or two to exploit and the owners will let them find them. I still believe a Stanley Cup will be awarded in June (probably late June)

I'm actually getting more optimistic by the day.

Hopefully the slap in the face the owners provided will wake the players up to some harsh realities and their leadership will FINALLY do their job and get the best deal possible given the circumstances.
 

FLYLine27*

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Thunderstruck said:
I'm actually getting more optimistic by the day.

Hopefully the slap in the face the owners provided will wake the players up to some harsh realities and their leadership will FINALLY do their job and get the best deal possible given the circumstances.

Best deal given the OWNERS circumstances you mean. Thats not how it works.
 

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FLYLine4LIFE said:
Best deal given the OWNERS circumstances you mean. Thats not how it works.
When one side has a huge advantage in leverage, that is exactly how it works.
 

SENSible1*

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FLYLine4LIFE said:
What is the leverage?
The owners ability and willingness to absorb greater losses than the PA. In the war of attrition, in which both parties are currently engaged, this is the curcial factor.

Everyone but the PA and a few of their rabid supporters have figured out the basic fact that the players are in a fight they can't possibly win. (I'd bet quite a few within the PA have figured this out already, but just can't find a way to lose with dignity yet)

Simply put, there is no exit strategy for the PA.
 

FLYLine27*

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Thunderstruck said:
The owners ability and willingness to absorb greater losses than the PA. In the war of attrition, in which both parties are currently engaged, this is the curcial factor.

The owners dont have the ability to absorb greater losses...the players will have enough money to maintain a family still in 3 years....3 years from now there will be more then half the NHL out of the NHL because they have ZERO MONEY and you can maintain a company with ZERO profit.
Everyone but the PA and a few of their rabid supporters have figured out the basic fact that the players are in a fight they can't possibly win. (I'd bet quite a few within the PA have figured this out already, but just can't find a way to lose with dignity yet)

Simply put, there is no exit strategy for the PA.
The same can be said the other way around...the Owners cant possibly win...all Bettman is doing by making this hard cap offer over and over is making the Union stronger. You think the Players will just cave but they wont. In the end the owners will be the ones who will be forced to cave to maintain NHL TEAMS.
 

Toonces

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Feb 23, 2003
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FLYLine4LIFE said:
The owners dont have the ability to absorb greater losses...the players will have enough money to maintain a family still in 3 years....3 years from now there will be more then half the NHL out of the NHL because they have ZERO MONEY and you can maintain a company with ZERO profit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't every owner in this league made their fortunes elsewhere? It seems that the owners can just sit on their hands for as long as they want.

The players, at least the more wealthy ones can too. Even the guy earning 3-400k for a few years can just sit on his money and with a few smart investments do pretty damn well.

It's a rich man vs rich man stalemate...

The fans lose...
 

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Toonces said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't every owner in this league made their fortunes elsewhere? It seems that the owners can just sit on their hands for as long as they want.

The players, at least the more wealthy ones can too. Even the guy earning 3-400k for a few years can just sit on his money and with a few smart investments do pretty damn well.

It's a rich man vs rich man stalemate...

The fans lose...


In a stalemate over money, take the billionaires over the millionaires every time.
 

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FLYLine4LIFE said:
The owners dont have the ability to absorb greater losses...the players will have enough money to maintain a family still in 3 years....3 years from now there will be more then half the NHL out of the NHL because they have ZERO MONEY and you can maintain a company with ZERO profit.
The owners are all independantly wealthy regardless of the NHL. They can and will wait out the players.


The same can be said the other way around...the Owners cant possibly win...all Bettman is doing by making this hard cap offer over and over is making the Union stronger. You think the Players will just cave but they wont. In the end the owners will be the ones who will be forced to cave to maintain NHL TEAMS.
Yes, someone not even remotely in touch with reality could make this claim repeatedly. Oh wait....you already have.
 

417

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Feb 20, 2003
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FLYLine4LIFE said:
The owners dont have the ability to absorb greater losses...the players will have enough money to maintain a family still in 3 years....3 years from now there will be more then half the NHL out of the NHL because they have ZERO MONEY and you can maintain a company with ZERO profit.

The same can be said the other way around...the Owners cant possibly win...all Bettman is doing by making this hard cap offer over and over is making the Union stronger. You think the Players will just cave but they wont. In the end the owners will be the ones who will be forced to cave to maintain NHL TEAMS.

Your totally wrong on this, this is where the players lost all the leverage, it's like they don't know who they're dealing with, 3/4 of these owners probably aren't even true hockey fans, i'm sure they've come to appreciate the game, but they have other business ventures, the NHL hockey is just 1 small piece of the pie for them, and it's one where right now, they're losing less money locking out the players than if they were actually playing, it's battle the players can't win, the owners will not back down

The last time someone tried to challenge a major corporation during a lockout, he ended up out of work for 11 years, remember Kramer and the bagel company! ;)
 

chara

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Thunderstruck said:
The owners are all independantly wealthy regardless of the NHL. They can and will wait out the players.



Yes, someone not even remotely in touch with reality could make this claim repeatedly. Oh wait....you already have.

Thunderstruck, you are absolutely right. The owners have the edge.

However, it will be Bettman's job not to humiliate the players into submission. The NHLPA will "do the right thing", "make the ultimate sacrifice", etc. and accept a cap and the fans will recognize this. Like I said in another post, the players have to be the heroes in this. No one in their right mind has a poster on their wall or a screensaver on their computers of Goodenow or Bettman.
 

Digger12

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FLYLine4LIFE said:
The owners dont have the ability to absorb greater losses...the players will have enough money to maintain a family still in 3 years....3 years from now there will be more then half the NHL out of the NHL because they have ZERO MONEY and you can maintain a company with ZERO profit.

Uh, isn't this kinda shooting the players in the face too?

"Hey, Fernando Pisani! You've just lost 3 years of your finite career, but we FINALLY managed to beat those godless, child-eating owners into submission. It's only a 16 team league now, but we have our marketplace!"

"Oh, BTW...you and the other bottom 40% of the NHLPA don't have jobs anymore. But thanks for your support! Your martyrdom will always be remembered..."

*SLAM*

What's the point of winning a war if your spoils have been reduced to ashes?
 

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chara said:
Thunderstruck, you are absolutely right. The owners have the edge.

However, it will be Bettman's job not to humiliate the players into submission. The NHLPA will "do the right thing", "make the ultimate sacrifice", etc. and accept a cap and the fans will recognize this. Like I said in another post, the players have to be the heroes in this. No one in their right mind has a poster on their wall or a screensaver on their computers of Goodenow or Bettman.

Bettman will fall on his sword (with a generous golden parachute) to placate the players.
 

mackdogs*

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scaredsensfan said:
Whats the point of basing your argument on the ridiculous assumption that an NHL franchise (let alone 14) will fold.

Holy crap.
No doubt! Everyone knows at least 16 teams will fold.
 

sabresfan65

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May 23, 2004
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Thunderstruck said:
Bettman will fall on his sword (with a generous golden parachute) to placate the players.

I absolutely agree. Hopefully they will then bring in a Hockey man to replace him.
 

nomorekids

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Feb 28, 2003
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sabresfan65 said:
I absolutely agree. Hopefully they will then bring in a Hockey man to replace him.


Like who? Brian Burke?

I've got some bad news for the disillusioned: if a so-called "hockey man" were commissioner, you'd find that the owners were even more hardline than they are now. You heard what he said, I'd assume.
 

pacde

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Dec 9, 2004
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nomorekids said:
Like who? Brian Burke?

I've got some bad news for the disillusioned: if a so-called "hockey man" were commissioner, you'd find that the owners were even more hardline than they are now. You heard what he said, I'd assume.

I think thats why so many people support him for the position.
 
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