GDT: Biggest game of the season! Devils @ Canes

[tarheelhockey]

C'mon Tarheel. Where did I ever suggest he should have thrown Wallmark out there for 20 min? I never did. I said he could have easily played him a few more minutes than the 4:28 he did, given how poorly Ryan was playing and how the team wasn't scoring. You've been arguing that there's no way he could, his hands were tied, catch-22, etc... and that just doesn't hold water.

I agree, I would NOT expect him to play Wallmark 20 minutes. Heck, not even 15 minutes, but to say that he couldn't find a few more minutes when the team scored 1 fluke goal in 58 minutes and Ryan was abysmal, doesn't compute and is inconsistent with Peter's own messages. As I said earlier, if Lindy played like that and made that flub that cost a goal, Peters would have no issue stapling his ass to the 4th line.

Anyhow, I've said my piece.

If he's going to be on Skinner's line, he has to skate Skinner's shifts. How else would he do it?

I mean you could swap Ryan and Wallmark back and forth on each other's line, but that's insanely hard to do in real time during a game. You basically end up giving them the physical experience of being double-shifted. At most, maybe you can make that change during the third period break -- but again, you're putting a rookie in a position where if he can't handle it, he's about to have the nightmarish experience of being blamed for a key NHL loss 24 hours after being called up from the bus leagues.

 

[GoldiFox]

I am of the opinion that it literally can't get worse than Ryan. Zero points in 11 games Centering a pure offensive line. At the most important juncture of the season.

Next in line, please.

 

[tarheelhockey]

On other teams, NHL promotions frequently work exactly that way. Usually against us.

Our biggest problem is we never play games against the Carolina Hurricanes.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Then what is the point of having a farm team that plays the same system?

The whole point of our setup is that we've got guys learning their roles down on the farm so that they can come and play those roles on the Big Club. You think these kids don't want that chance? You think these kids are that fragile? I think that's our own fear talking.

We don't give these kids a realistic chance to help us. And if that's all part of the development plan, then fine -- but again, why bring them up in the first place?

 

[Canes]

Our biggest problem is we never play games against the Carolina Hurricanes.

Our biggest problem is management and coaching turning us into a meme over the last decade.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Then what is the point of having a farm team that plays the same system?

The whole point of our setup is that we've got guys learning their roles down on the farm so that they can come and play those roles on the Big Club. You think these kids don't want that chance? You think these kids are that fragile? I think that's our own fear talking.

We don't give these kids a realistic chance to help us. And if that's all part of the development plan, then fine -- but again, why bring them up in the first place?

Of course we want the kids to grow up into contributors. But it’s in the best interests of both the player and the team that we not thrust them into a full-responsibility role immediately after callup.

Why call up Wallmark? I really don’t know. Waiving both our 4C options without having a Plan C is a highly unusual move, a tank season move, and it’s not clear to me what the organizational plan is there.

 

[NotOpie]

And what happens when that kid gets abused for a hat trick going the other way? You're going to tell him to buck up, this won't affect organizational decisions going forward? Tell the fans not to worry about it, we'll get 'em next time?

You're making an assumption about a situation that isn't actually based on Wallmark's albeit brief NHL history/experience. He's been responsible, last season he played shifts up and down the line, and he wasn't a liability defensively in any game that I've seen him play at this level. Plus, there is now way he plays worse than Ryan did....on what is ostensibly our 3rd line (not Top 6).

You think these kids don't want that chance? You think these kids are that fragile? I think that's our own fear talking.

This is exactly my point. Here's a kid who is centering one of the top lines in the AHL. Granted it's not the NHL, but it is the next highest level of play. These kids are either ready or they're not. Wallmark has shown nothing that says, "I'm not ready". Will he light it up? Maybe not...but he's got the skills to be trusted for a game to see where the chips fall....and again, given how Ryan was playing, the greater risk was letting him remain in a top 9 role.

 

[NotOpie]

Why call up Wallmark? I really don’t know. Waiving both our 4C options without having a Plan C is a highly unusual move, a tank season move, and it’s not clear to me what the organizational plan is there.

....and anybody who doesn't at least give a tiny bit of credence to the Francis/Peters butting heads narrative over these moves should be getting something of a contradictory answer.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Well, if they didn't want to put him into a "full-responsibility" role immediately, Peters, with 4:28 of ice time, surely accomplished that, and then some. Especially given that every forward on NJ saw 8-12 min. of 5v5 ice time. Would have hated to see Wallmark get another shift or two against the Devils 4th line. Might have ruined him for life.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Again — he got 5 minutes because every shift was an offensive zone situation against NJ’s weakest players. It’s not like he was stapled to the bench. He was simply spared the challenge of skating the harder shifts that a 4C usually skates.

As a first game recall, playing a square-peg position in the lineup, it makes total sense to shelter him. If he plays 5 minutes a game for 5 more games, then sure it would be confounding. Doing it in this context isn’t that hard to understand.

 

[NotOpie]

Again — he got 5 minutes because every shift was an offensive zone situation against NJ’s weakest players. It’s not like he was stapled to the bench. He was simply spared the challenge of skating the harder shifts that a 4C usually skates.

As a first game recall, playing a square-peg position in the lineup, it makes total sense to shelter him. If he plays 5 minutes a game for 5 more games, then sure it would be confounding. Doing it in this context isn’t that hard to understand.

You're right there....it is getting less hard to understand by the game. Basically, the promised "ice time hammer" hasn't really appeared, playing young guys where they can succeed has been about a 50/50 proposition, but mostly, to me, this feels like a guy who didn't like the call up and wasn't going to play him....for a lot of good reasons....just not the right ones.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Basically, the promised "ice time hammer" hasn't really appeared,

We just waived two guys, hence this entire discussion.

Is there someone other than Ryan who desperately deserves the hammer?

 

[JCLA]

Again — he got 5 minutes because every shift was an offensive zone situation against NJ’s weakest players. It’s not like he was stapled to the bench. He was simply spared the challenge of skating the harder shifts that a 4C usually skates.

As a first game recall, playing a square-peg position in the lineup, it makes total sense to shelter him. If he plays 5 minutes a game for 5 more games, then sure it would be confounding. Doing it in this context isn’t that hard to understand.

He was sent back down today

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

i don't think it's a coincidence that the only guys who are consistently punished for arbitrary brain farts (turbo and fleury) also play the two positions the canes don't have terribad depth.

even so.... I'm still pissed ryan gave up a goal because of his lack of situational awareness and his inability to make a simple play, against a team that was basically doing nothing offensively against the canes, and was then relied heavily on in the third and got both offensive zone draws in ot.

it's no longer a question of "is derek ryan the best of a bad situation in this current circumstance? ", it's "derek ryan is an objectively bad hockey player who hurts the team on the ice, so get rid of him and find a way to make it work. I don't care if the team is worse for a game or two, just punish this crap".

i really will break something this year if ryan gets a 1 way from us again.

 

[NotOpie]

We just waived two guys, hence this entire discussion.

Is there someone other than Ryan who desperately deserves the hammer?

Variously, throughout the season - Faulk, Ryan, the two guys waived, Williams, Teravainen, PDG (who spent time in the press box accordingly), and to a lesser extent, early season Lindholm.

Nordstrom is a conundrum to me. He's a hell of a PK'er and, defensively, mostly pretty good. Those are okay if you've got other guys picking up the slack on his total lack of scoring. I'd love to see our 4th line contribute more offensively.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

He was sent back down today

strange, checkers are also off until friday so idk the point of this.

 

[NotOpie]

He was sent back down today

Likely just don't want to pay him to practice. Charlotte has 3 games in 3 days beginning on Friday. They're off until then.

 

[JCLA]

strange, checkers are also off until friday so idk the point of this.

My guess is Francis and Peters may be having a disconnect. Francis' doesn't want prospect players playing for 5 minutes and Peters is playing them for 5 minutes, so he sent him back down.

I could be wrong but anybody's guess could be correct.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Sending him down for that reason, especially with no games on the schedule, would punish Wallmark, not Peters.

 

[NotOpie]

Sending him down for that reason, especially with no games on the schedule, would punish Wallmark, not Peters.

Agreed....keeping him up here, letting him practice w/the team (although they aren't practicing today and tomorrow, or so I thought I heard) would be something of a reward....at least financially.

 

[JCLA]

I didn't mean it as in he's punishing Peters. I meant it as he has this player he wants to develop and he's not going to do it with 5 minutes of ice time at the NHL level so get him back down to where he is going to play 20 minutes

 

[AD Skinner]

Our Save% is somehow even worse. Darling is just that bad. ****.

Somehow there are two teams with worse save% than the canes. Not sure how that is possible. One call up having one really bad game maybe?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Somehow there are two teams with worse save% than the canes. Not sure how that is possible. One call up having one really bad game maybe?

1 team. Canes are 30th out of 31 teams but there are a number of teams just as bad. Edmonton is the worst.

Bottom 5 are:

Buffalo: .899
Arizona: .899
Ottawa: .898
Carolina: .898
Edmonton: .894

 

[tarheelhockey]

I didn't mean it as in he's punishing Peters. I meant it as he has this player he wants to develop and he's not going to do it with 5 minutes of ice time at the NHL level so get him back down to where he is going to play 20 minutes

Yeah but the Checkers have the whole week off too.

The only thing this changes is where he practices, and the size of his paycheck.

There’s some really weird stuff coming out of the front office lately.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Wasn't it just a week ago where Francis said he wasn't calling a guy up to just play a handful of minutes a night? To me, it seems like this move is more of his actions matching his words.