Biggest Flop??

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Staal Me Up, Jun 12, 2006.

  1. Staal Me Up

    Staal Me Up Registered User

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    Who, if any, were the NHL's biggest busts of all time...
     
  2. Hasbro

    Hasbro Can He Skate?! Sponsor

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    The stock answers:

    Alexandre Daigle and Jason Bonsinsnore.
     
  3. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    Add Brian Lawton.
     
  4. Boston

    Boston Captain Chara

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    Bryan Fogarty
     
  5. PockIsGoD

    PockIsGoD Registered User

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    Daigle is the easy answer. He was especially a bust because of that VERY fat contract the sens gave him. He could have had a decent career in the NHL, but attitude problems and a lack of desire prevented him to do so.
     
  6. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Daigle has played 616 NHL games, got 327 points. He has played in 10 different NHL seasons and was still playing in 2006 12 years after he was drafted. And he played in the AHL playoffs this season and got 11 points in 7 games so it is likely someone takes a chance on him again next year. He is a huge disappointment for sure but not a flop.

    A flop is someone who never makes the NHL or barely does. You play 10 seasons and you aren't a flop. I don't consider Lawton or Doug Wickenheiser to be flops.

    Pavel Brendl 4th overall in 1999 has played a whopping 78 games and got 11 goals.

    Bryan Fogarty is an example of self destruction. He had everything you could want in an offensive defenceman but managed only 156 games (and a decent 74 points). He could have been a great All-time D-Man if not for his addiction to alcohol and drugs.

    Dave Chyzowski second overall in 1989 and had 126 NHL games and 31 points.

    Daniel Dore 5th overall in 1988 - 17 NHL games

    Scott Scissons 6th overall in 1990 - played 2 games. The first 5 picks and the 7th and 8th picks all will likely play 1000 NHL games.

    Ryan Sittler 7th overall in 1992 - Never played in the NHL

    Benoit Larose 5th overall in 1993 - Never played an NHL game

    Alexandre Volchov - 4th overall 1996 - has played 3 NHL games
     
  7. pnep

    pnep Registered User

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    Biggest "Draft Busts"

    -- draft year >1968 and <1999
    -- played < 4 NHL seasons

    LW

    Player Name -- Num -- Drafted By Franchise -- Round -- Draft Year -- Seasons
    ================================================== =========
    Dean Barry -- 2 -- NJ -- Round 1 -- 1975 -- 3
    Tannahill Don -- 3 -- BOS -- Round 1 -- 1969 -- 2
    Sittler Ryan -- 7 -- PHI -- Round 1 -- 1992 -- 0
    Ryan Terry -- 8 -- MTL -- Round 1 -- 1995 -- 3
    Phillipoff Harold -- 10 -- CGY -- Round 1 -- 1976 -- 3
    Blanchard Al -- 10 -- NYR -- Round 1 -- 1972 -- 0
    Titanic Morris -- 12 -- BUF -- Round 1 -- 1973 -- 2
    Babe Warren -- 12 -- DAL -- Round 1 -- 1986 -- 3
    Riihijarvi Teemu -- 12 -- SJ -- Round 1 -- 1995 -- 0
    Zultek Matt -- 15 -- LA -- Round 1 -- 1997 -- 0


    C

    Player Name -- Num -- Drafted By Franchise -- Round -- Draft Year -- Seasons
    ================================================== =========
    Williams Fred -- 4 -- DET -- Round 1 -- 1976 -- 1
    Scissons Scott -- 6 -- NYI -- Round 1 -- 1990 -- 3
    Tkaczuk Daniel -- 6 -- CGY -- Round 1 -- 1997 -- 1
    Currier Bob -- 6 -- PHI -- Round 1 -- 1969 -- 0
    Vaydik Greg -- 7 -- CHI -- Round 1 -- 1975 -- 1
    Gratton Dan -- 10 -- LA -- Round 1 -- 1985 -- 1
    Spring Dan -- 12 -- CHI -- Round 1 -- 1971 -- 0
    Malone Jim -- 14 -- NYR -- Round 1 -- 1980 -- 0
    Savage Reggie -- 15 -- WAS -- Round 1 -- 1988 -- 3
    Mctavish Gordon -- 15 -- MTL -- Round 1 -- 1974 -- 2
    Carroll Greg -- 15 -- WAS -- Round 1 -- 1976 -- 2

    RW

    Player Name -- Num -- Drafted By Franchise -- Round -- Draft Year -- Seasons
    ================================================== =========
    Volchkov Alexandre -- 4 -- WAS -- Round 1 -- 1996 -- 1
    Dore Daniel -- 5 -- COL -- Round 1 -- 1988 -- 2
    Stojanov Alek -- 7 -- VAN -- Round 1 -- 1991 -- 3
    Woodley Dan -- 7 -- VAN -- Round 1 -- 1986 -- 1
    Featherstone Tony -- 7 -- CLE -- Round 1 -- 1969 -- 3
    Geoffrion Danny -- 8 -- MTL -- Round 1 -- 1978 -- 3
    Trottier Rocky -- 8 -- NJ -- Round 1 -- 1982 -- 2
    Lindros Brett -- 9 -- NYI -- Round 1 -- 1994 -- 2
    Moser Ernie -- 9 -- TOR -- Round 1 -- 1969 -- 0
    Heerema Jeff -- 11 -- CAR -- Round 1 -- 1998 -- 2
    Osborne Keith -- 12 -- STL -- Round 1 -- 1987 -- 2
    Vallis Lindsay -- 13 -- MTL -- Round 1 -- 1989 -- 1
    Savage Joel -- 13 -- BUF -- Round 1 -- 1988 -- 1
    Henrich Michael -- 13 -- EDM -- Round 1 -- 1998 -- 0
    Riesen Michel -- 14 -- EDM -- Round 1 -- 1997 -- 1
    Lucas Danny -- 14 -- PHI -- Round 1 -- 1978 -- 1
    Kharlamov Alexander -- 15 -- WAS -- Round 1 -- 1994 -- 0

    DEF

    Player Name -- Num -- Drafted By Franchise -- Round -- Draft Year -- Seasons
    ================================================== =========
    Johansson Bjorn -- 5 -- CLE -- Round 1 -- 1976 -- 2
    Bennett Adam -- 6 -- CHI -- Round 1 -- 1989 -- 3
    Arthur Fred -- 8 -- CAR -- Round 1 -- 1980 -- 3
    Herter Jason -- 8 -- VAN -- Round 1 -- 1989 -- 1
    Aitken Johnathan -- 8 -- BOS -- Round 1 -- 1996 -- 2
    Plumb Ron -- 9 -- BOS -- Round 1 -- 1970 -- 1
    Campbell Scott -- 9 -- STL -- Round 1 -- 1977 -- 3
    Sadler Robin -- 9 -- MTL -- Round 1 -- 1975 -- 0
    Cooper David -- 11 -- BUF -- Round 1 -- 1992 -- 3
    Focht Dan -- 11 -- PHO -- Round 1 -- 1996 -- 3
    Meighan Ron -- 13 -- DAL -- Round 1 -- 1981 -- 2
    Quinn David -- 13 -- DAL -- Round 1 -- 1984 -- 0
    Stewart Michael -- 13 -- NYR -- Round 1 -- 1990 -- 0
    Baird Ken -- 15 -- CLE -- Round 2 -- 1971 -- 1
    Ware Jeff -- 15 -- TOR -- Round 1 -- 1995 -- 3
    Soules Jason -- 15 -- EDM -- Round 1 -- 1989 -- 0


    G

    Player Name -- Num -- Drafted By Franchise -- Round -- Draft Year -- Seasons
    ================================================== =========
    Martyniuk Ray -- 5 -- MTL -- Round 1 -- 1970 -- 0
    Desrochers Patrick -- 14 -- PHO -- Round 1 -- 1998 -- 2
    Ryabchikov Evgeni -- 21 -- BOS -- Round 1 -- 1994 -- 0
    Hillier Craig -- 23 -- PIT -- Round 1 -- 1996 -- 0
    Damphousse Jean Franc -- 24 -- NJ -- Round 1 -- 1997 -- 1
    DeGuise Michel -- 24 -- MTL -- Round 2 -- 1971 -- 0
    Pelletier Jean Marc -- 30 -- PHI -- Round 2 -- 1997 -- 3
    Dyck Ed -- 30 -- VAN -- Round 3 -- 1970 -- 3
     
  8. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    Agreed. I would classify Daigle as a disappointment. Same with Dan Cleary. Same with Chad Kilger and Todd Harvey. But busts or flops? No. There is a difference.

    Volchkov was a colossol flop. He had as much goal scoring potential as Kovalchuk. But his attitude sucked, he was miserable to be around, and he had zero determination to succeed at the NHL level.

    I remember Ryan Sittler was pegged as the sure thing of the 1992 Draft. 1992 was a weak draft class, but everyone thought Sittler would be a solid player, at worst a second liner. He has played as many NHL games as his father over the last 20 years.

    There are several players from the 1997 Draft who would classify as busts:
    *Daniel Tkachuk. He was part of the consensus Top 5, along with Thornton, Marleau, Jokinen and Luongo. Mike Milbury shocked many by selecting Eric Brewer. (A rare stroke of genius by Mad Mike). Calgary went with Tkachuk, enraging their head scout by passing up Sergei Samsonov (that scout was one of the few who had Samsonov ahead of Tkachuk) and the rest is history.
    *Robert Dome. Scouts were drooling at his power forward potential at age 15. He was one of the most skilled players on the planet in his age group, and already had the physical maturity of a player in their early 20s. But he made a colossol blunder by choosing to play in the IHL at 16. (A lot of teenage Europeans went to the IHL as a teenager following the success of Radek Bonk in 1993-94). Dome played sparingly over the next three years, and his development never recovered.
    *Jarrett Smith. Perhaps my all-time favourite. In a spring 1995 issue of THN, they profiled 15 people destined for hockey superstardom. (Including Joe Thornton, Samsonov, Hailey Wickenheiser and Don Van Massenhoven). One of those players was Smith. A scout said Smith might be the most talented player ever to come out of Alberta. Smith was selected first overall in the WHL Draft, proceeded to struggle mightily in junior, fell to the third round of the NHL Draft, and never played an NHL game.
    *Adam Colagiacomo. Like Robert Dome, had scouts raving about his power forward potential. At least Dome reached the show. Colagiacomo had prototypical power forward size and strength, good skill for such a large player, and a bullet of a shot. At the Four Nations tournament in the summer of 1996 (now the Junior World Cup) he was the best player on the winning Canadian entry, outshining Thornton and Marleau. But he was part of that London Knights team that won three games in 1996-97, and that season stunted his development and ruined his passion. He looked like he was regaining his form after a 40-goal season his final year of junior, but was horribly exposed in minor pro.
     
  9. Foy

    Foy Registered User

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    One has to wonder if that fat up front contract helped with the whole "lack of motivation" thing
     
  10. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

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    The Senators have to take part of the blame for Daigle being such a disappointment. A year in the AHL early in his career would`ve done him a world of good.

    The fact that he`s played over 600 games is proof of how diluted the talent in a 26-30 team league is.
     
  11. Foy

    Foy Registered User

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    I would say that it's more of a sign of how far one can get on raw talent alone.
     
  12. MiamiScreamingEagles

    MiamiScreamingEagles A Fistful of Dollars

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    Ryan Sittler was listed above. I seem to recall he suffered a really bad eye injury, at some point in his career (after being drafted), but I forget the details. Maybe someone recalls.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2006
  13. Lowetide

    Lowetide Registered User

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    Greg Joly. First overall by Washington after a stunner of a Memorial Cup drive (he led the Pats along with Clark Gillies) but he didn't have the type of career expected of a 1 overall pick who was in the same draft pool as Bryan Trottier.
     
  14. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    I think he was already written off by the time the eye injury happened. Within the first couple years of his selection, scouts were already soured on him as a player, and most were viewing him as a player who wasn't going to reach his potential, or justify his high first round status.
     
  15. Nalyd Psycho

    Nalyd Psycho Registered User

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    But... But... He's the best playmaking right winger of all time!
     
  16. Bear of Bad News

    Bear of Bad News HFBoards Escape Goat

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    The fact that a disappointing #1 overall pick has played over 600 NHL games is proof of talent dilution? Hardly.

    To "prove" your statement you'd have to also exhibit that you believed him to be a bust at the time of his selection, and furthermore convince us that that was the right belief at the time.
     
  17. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

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    I never said that I believed him to be a bust at the time of his selection, so why would I have to prove it? The kid had talent in junior. Had he been selected by say, New Jersey, he may have developed into a good player. The problem in Ottawa was his progress completely stopped; he never learned to improve defensively, play with discipline or handle physical play. Sure he got some points, but the negatives outweighed the positives. Add to all this that he was getting a ton of criticism from Ottawa fans because the team stunk and naturally any love he had for the game was sapped. Had they let him adjust to the pro game for awhile in the AHL, like they later did with Spezza, then it may have been a different story.

    As far as his later years go, Jacques Lemaire loves the challenge of taking a player whose NHL career is thought to be over and reviving it (i.e. Wes Walz, Richard Park). But if there were only 21 teams, the opportunity wouldn`t have come because there would`ve been scores of better players around to give it to.

    Look at it this way: Greg Joly played only 365 NHL games, but from `84-`86 he was one of the AHL`s top defencemen. If there were 30 teams back then, there`d be 9 more teams looking for defencemen and since he was one of the best at the level right below the NHL it`s probable he would`ve got one of those jobs. If he spends those 3 years in the NHL, his 365 games turns into about 600 games, but it doesn`t make him any better a player.
     
  18. Bear of Bad News

    Bear of Bad News HFBoards Escape Goat

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    Because you're trying to exhibit that talent is too diluted in a 26-30 team league.

    To do so, you have to show that players who were clearly subpar are having long careers in the league.

    You may be able to make the case, but not with Alexandre Daigle (as you attempted to).
     
  19. Bear of Bad News

    Bear of Bad News HFBoards Escape Goat

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    What you've shown here is that more teams means more players in the league. This probably didn't need to be proven, but well done regardless!

    However, it does not show that there are too many teams, or too few good players.
     
  20. PockIsGoD

    PockIsGoD Registered User

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    In an interview on Radio-Canada (French CBC) he said that even in Midget AAA, he was'nt so sure about making a career out of hockey. He said that there was a lot of pressure from in family, especially his father.

    But, to only to give my opinion, I think the 2.5 million a year contract that 18 years old kid got surely didn't help his motivation.
     
  21. francklem

    francklem Registered User

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    Daigle wasn t a bust for me he was a disapointement because of the hype that media made around him .

    And that s a fact that he was push in hockey by his father he was good yes but not so willing . Give him that big contract that assure is living for life and he just loose is last motivation i think .
     
  22. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

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    More teams equals more players that aren`t as good as the players already there. Here`s the point: 600 NHL games doesn`t mean what it used to. Had Daigle played 15 years earlier he wouldn`t have been able to pad those extra 200 games to his total because there wouldn`t have been any room for him.

    The whole debate about how many teams is too many is another topic, but look at it this way: they added 4 more team from `98- `00. Is there any evidence whatsoever to indicate that 80 more NHL-calibre players magically appeared in that span? Not that I`ve seen.
     
  23. Bear of Bad News

    Bear of Bad News HFBoards Escape Goat

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    Yes, you've (once again) made the point that with more teams, there are more players.

    NHL-caliber players do not magically appear, I'll grant you that.

    But can you prove that there weren't 80 NHL-caliber players in the minors at the time the league expanded? Or playing in Europe?

    Unless you can prove that, all you're really saying is that more teams require more players.
     
  24. MiamiScreamingEagles

    MiamiScreamingEagles A Fistful of Dollars

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    Do you know when it happened? Which level? I can't seem to locate much about it.

    To add another name: Pat Falloon. Second pick overall.
     
  25. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Agreed. And he can be an effective player. His year leading the Wild in scoring was better than any of his seasons in Ottawa.

    Despite the craziness of his career I don't dislike Daigle. It isn't his fault the era of huge salaries and hype was the same as his rookie season. He benefitted hugely from that time but he was pigeon holed since an early teen as a hockey player and knew no other life. He tried acting, writing and then decided to come back and play hockey. He was still good enough to get back to the NHL.

    He may not have got nearly as much from his talent as he could have but he isn't a jerk, or an egoist. He just is a prodigy that never had a choice but hockey and as he matured realized he needed something different than hockey.

    It might be frustrating for the 99% of draft picks that wanted hockey with every ounce of their being but never had his talent but hey he isn't everyone else he is himself.
     

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