Bigger honor: HHOF or number retired ?

[Beau Knows]

Jersey Retirement: you're a legend for one franchise, but not necessarily as significant to the history of the game itself

HHOF: you're a legend of the game, recognized by more than just whoever runs the team you played for

 

[banks]

I've never heard a great player called a "number retired-er".

They're called "hall of famer".

HHOF is the bigger honor.

 

[The Burdened]

HOF is the bigger honor, but I'd rather have my number retired.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I voted number retired , I guess it depends on the organization you root for

 

[TMLegend]

I think having your number retired is more prestigious.

According to Wikipedia there are 299 players in the Hall of Fame vs 182 retired numbers.

Kinda bears out what I think as well. You can have an excellent career and be a Hall of Famer, but you have virtually no shot of having your number retired if you bounced around the league and lacked longevity with a single franchise.

A guy like Phil Kessel comes to mind. Although he's a more borderline case when it comes to his Hall of Fame credentials in my opinion.

 

[M88K]

Number retired.

There's plenty of meh people in the HHOF already.

Number Retired acknowledges a players Impact even if only to the 1 team, doesn't require winning a popularity contest( 90% of NHL awards).

Jere Lehtinen would be a great example.
One of the best 2 way forwards ever, even has hardware to go with it, that was back before it was so driven by scoring, a player like him would never win the Selke today because he's not scoring 80p. and very little chance of making the HHOF.

 

[Toby91ca]

Jere Lehtinen would be a great example.
One of the best 2 way forwards ever, even has hardware to go with it, that was back before it was so driven by scoring, a player like him would never win the Selke today because he's not scoring 80p. and very little chance of making the HHOF.

Bergeron was a Selke finalists 12 times I think and won 6 times. He scored 80 pts exactly ZERO times.

I've never heard a great player called a "number retired-er".

They're called "hall of famer".

HHOF is the bigger honor.

This is exactly what I was thinking, but goes along with the same notion others suggested.....number retired is a big deal in one particular city, hall of fame is a big deal everywhere.

 

[M88K]

Bergeron was a Selke finalists 12 times I think and won 6 times. He scored 80 pts exactly ZERO times.


This is exactly what I was thinking, but goes along with the same notion others suggested.....number retired is a big deal in one particular city, hall of fame is a big deal everywhere.

By virtue of missing games.
The point isn't that they had to have exactly 80p, it's that you have to be near a point per game to even be in consideration for the Selke. It is tied more to offensive production now than defensive acumen. Hell nowadays Crosby is considered a Selke candidate, which show just how much of a joke driven by scoring it is.
Bergeron, also played in a market that is conductive to being able to win awards.
Bergeron, playing at the same level defensively, with the same production but spending his entire career in say Arizona, would have 0 Selke wins, and a lot less times as a finalist despite still deserving to be.

 

[Toby91ca]

By virtue of missing games.
The point isn't that they had to have exactly 80p, it's that you have to be near a point per game to even be in consideration for the Selke. It is tied more to offensive production now than defensive acumen. Hell nowadays Crosby is considered a Selke candidate, which show just how much of a joke driven by scoring it is.
Bergeron, also played in a market that is conductive to being able to win awards.
Bergeron, playing at the same level defensively, with the same production but spending his entire career in say Arizona, would have 0 Selke wins, and a lot less times as a finalist despite still deserving to be.

It's not by virtue of missing games. He was only a PPG player once in his career and that's not a year he won the Selke.

Now, I know you aren't suggesting 80pts as some sort of min line either, but Bergeron wasn't really close, he wasn't near PPG. His average for the 6 years he won the award was 0.75.

With the increase in scoring, I'm sure Lehtinen wouldn't have been too far off those offensive stats. That said....I don't disagree....trending has been moved up in terms of scoring needed to win as well it seems.

 

[acor]

Number retired. It (usually) means you mean something to particular team.

HHOF is garbage, like all "voted" awards. Would prefer to be honored by some particular comunity, than by some random comitee...

Although, yes, HHoFers were usually better players.

 

[geebster]

Weird poll considering they are almost entirely mutually inclusive. Almost every HOFer I can think of had their number retired. Very few exceptions.

It comes down to context really. If it's your Sakic type who stuck with one team and defined the franchise then retiring is probably it. If you are a Hab and get retired that's bigger than the HHOF too based on history.

On the flipside if you didn't stick to one team but build a HHOF career that's going to matter more.

But in a vacuum with no context HHOF is a bigger award.

 

[Toby91ca]

Weird poll considering they are almost entirely mutually inclusive. Almost every HOFer I can think of had their number retired. Very few exceptions.

I don't think that's close to reality though. Based on my very quick check, looks like close to 60% of hall of famers do not have their number retired.

 

[nowhereman]

I think this is definitely the HHOF. Being a "Hall of Famer" transcends hockey and is recognized more widely in the sports world. Sure there are a few players in the Hall who weren't all-time superstars (i.e. Lowe, Andreychuk) but the quality in the HHOF is higher, IMO. Even though there are a lot of HHOFers who didn't get their number retired, that is more due to team context. If you don't play enough years for a certain organization and potentially win a Cup with them or go to the Finals, etc. it can be tough to make the case for lifting their jersey into the rafters.

I just feel that the bar for retired jerseys is much lower than that of being inducted into the Hall. As a Canucks fan, I look at our rafters. Outside of the obvious Bure and the Sedins, you have Naslund, Linden and Smyl up there. The latter 3 will never be up for consideration for the HHOF and even the Sedins would come in under the wire. And look at some of the other guys from around the league: Yvon Labre, Adam Graves, Wendel Clark, Bob Plager, Al Hamilton, Glen Wesley, or even someone as great as Bourque after playing one full season with the Avs. And we all know about the Minnesota Wild #1.

Getting your jersey retired is a little more about the warm and fuzzys (unless we're talking about the Habs), while the more prestigious honor is the Hall.

 

[Garo]

To have your number retired almost always means recognition of how much you gave to your team. How involved you were in the community and how hard you worked for so long for something you recognized as important to yourself.

IMO, it's a far greater honour than the hall of fame. You can somewhat argue similar points for it, but it's a lot more... detached. You play for the love of the game, but you stay so long and work so hard because you love and identify with the team. It's a bigger part of who you became.

 

[Kingfan1967]

Most teams have more retired numbers than HHOF players, one is special for a team, the other special for the game, so HHOF> # retirement.

 

[Neutrinos]

Jays system is awful. Almost 50 years of existence and they got one player number retired and nobody from their World Series winners… for reasons. But still.

Why should the Hall of Fame dictate what your franchise does? A franchise should decide for themselves, not count on some guys who weren’t around your teams or players.

Alomar's number is retired, just not honored. He's in Baseball Hall of Fame as a Jay. Jays will never issue 12 again.

I just find a ton of somewhat good players on their teams during bad eras get glorified and teams end up hanging way too many jerseys of good but not great players. I think it damages the prestige of it. The same way about hanging banners that aren't titles (which the Jays do, especially their embarrassing wild card round combined banner). Obvious exceptions for situations like Bailey, Barrilko, Malik Seeley, Reggie Lewis, etc.

Edit: I guess they issued Hicks 12 last year, I was under the impression Alomar's number would never issued again, just not honored. They must have changed that policy.

I'm not sure anyone in Toronto's history should have their number retired...

If Halladay and Delgado had spent their entire careers in Toronto, then sure, you give them that honour, but they opted to leave the organization during their careers

With the rarest of exceptions, I'm not going to retire the number of a player who chose to play elsewhere

 

[Voight]

I'm not sure anyone in Toronto's history should have their number retired...

If Halladay and Delgado had spent their entire careers in Toronto, then sure, you give them that honour, but they opted to leave the organization during their careers

With the rarest of exceptions, I'm not going to retire the number of a player who chose to play elsewhere

They left near the end of their respective careers and only because they wanted to play in the playoffs at some point. Can't really fault either of them. They both gave the organization their best years.