Bettman goes to Russia today.Tells them to take it or leave it

[kdb209]

The Russians only leverage here is killing the idea of NHLers at the Olympics.

The know they have no leverage with the players, as Ovechkin and Malkin have already told the RSL to take a hike, while Zherdev has shown that any player who wants to go will go.

The NHL should simply announce that because the Russian and Czech leagues wont accept the deals that are good enough for everyone else, that the NHL will not go to the Olympics, and just stop talking.

Both leagues will collapse within weeks, as anything is better than $0.

Right Mr. Linden?

Or sign an agreement with the IIHF that allows them to only realease NHL players for the Olympics for countries who have signed the transfer fee agreement. Wouldn't that piss off the Russians and Czechs (who just decided to jump on the Russian's extrotion bandwagon).

Wouldn't it be fun to see Canada w/ NHL players take on a team of purely RSL players.

 

[kdb209]

Can someone help me out? If a player signs a contract with a Russian team, but later his NHL team exercises the team held option to extend his current NHL contract, which team has the valid contact? Can the player hold out for the length of the extension (say one year) and then be free to negotiate a new contract with any team either in Russia or in N.A.? Thanks.

When there was an NHL/IIHL agreement that couldn't happen. Both leagues were required to honor each others contracts. That's why Yashin could not play in Russia while holding out. Players under NHL contract could not sign in Russia - the lockout provided an exception. Without an agreement, an NHL player under contract could sign a contract in Russia (and visa versa), and let the leagues battle it out in court if they wanted.

But, if a player under contract to an NHL team (or even just on the reserved list) defects and plays overseas, that NHL team retains his rights. If the player is under NHL contract, the team could sue for damages (unlikely) but could force an extention of the current contract a la Yashin if and when the player ever returns.

Of course that depends on the terms of the new CBA w.r.t. specific performance and whether they supercede the Zeigler/Stein era league rules which were the basis for the Yashin arbitration decision.

 

[#37]

What we have here is a failure to communicate....

The truth is, the RSL is indeed just a feeder league. Their young stars flee to the NHL as soon as possible. The RIF have absolutely no leverage and do not seem to realize the weakness from which they are dealing. Bettman is doing them a favor by going out of his way to offer money for something he can get for free right now.

Better find a new poster child for your welfare program because Ovechkin just signed a 3 year deal and is probably already over here, chumps.

 

[thinkwild]

Wouldn't it be fun to see Canada w/ NHL players take on a team of purely RSL players.

If the Russians had the money they are after from transfer fees, they might make it a good match I guess is what they are saying.

What a great thread, thanks. I can see some of the difficulties in this agreement. I read that magnitogorsk babblefish translation, love those translators. Seems there is a danger this becomes an exploited emotional, political issue, and for people like slava fetisov.

When NHL teams sign an OHL player, the OHL team gets a fee depending on which round he is selected in or something? I dont think those fees are measured in the millions. But I can understand how the russians teams could find that comparison insulting. I think. They are of a different nature. It will be an interesting outcome to follow.

 

[The Vengabus]

God the arrogance of us north americans is disgusting.

You guys really underestimate the power of the RSL in this new league order. There is a salary cap now. There are several teams in Russia who can pay more money than the NHL cap. The average payrolls are not that far off. There is no cap in Russia. Soon enough-- if not now, as seen by Jagr-- top end players will be moving to play there. The NHL has never been faced with league competition from overseas. It has been unheard of. But, a country with an upswinging economy, very rich, proud, men with money to burn can now challenge the NHL that has become weaker and weaker every year. This isnt the PA. The NHLPA had only one inevitable outcome, and it came to that. Fighting with the Russians is not the same. I'm sure Bettman and Co. realize this, unlike you people. And thats why he flew there, him and his staff. They realize what this can do.

Then there is the Olympics leverage. If they dont get an agreement now, I fear not only will the Turin olympics lose its premier competition, but Vancouver too. And i'm sure half of you could care less about Italy, but if the NHL'ers dont come to Vancouver in 2010, there will be hell to pay in Canada.

Oh, of course, I will be shot down by "let the greedy russians stay in their league, we dont want them". Typical. It will start with the premier Russian players, but soon enough more and more of the other Europeans will follow soon. There is money to be had in Russia. Bettman should realize this too. These are the guys who sell the game. Hockey is supposed to be a skill game. Yet we're raised in this Canadian culture to appreciate grit above all. What the **** is grit? Generally its a term describing a lack of skill. "Oh look at that good Canadian kid, he tries so hard, and embodies everything that we stand for in Canada", referring to that enforcer who has a career tally of goals that Alexander Ovechkin may be able to score in one game.

Would you rather pay money to watch Darcy Hordichuk or Ilya Kovalchuk play?

P.S. Senator: Rooney was sold for 30 million pounds to Manchester United, not Liverpool.

Oh, and you cant compare the soccer transfer systems. The financial health is considerably different between the two sports. Hockey's entire revenue can be matched by the top 4 English teams.

 

[kdb209]

God the arrogance of us north americans is disgusting.

You guys really underestimate the power of the RSL in this new league order. There is a salary cap now. There are several teams in Russia who can pay more money than the NHL cap. The average payrolls are not that far off. There is no cap in Russia. Soon enough-- if not now, as seen by Jagr-- top end players will be moving to play there. The NHL has never been faced with league competition from overseas. It has been unheard of. But, a country with an upswinging economy, very rich, proud, men with money to burn can now challenge the NHL that has become weaker and weaker every year. This isnt the PA. The NHLPA had only one inevitable outcome, and it came to that. Fighting with the Russians is not the same. I'm sure Bettman and Co. realize this, unlike you people. And thats why he flew there, him and his staff. They realize what this can do.

Then there is the Olympics leverage. If they dont get an agreement now, I fear not only will the Turin olympics lose its premier competition, but Vancouver too. And i'm sure half of you could care less about Italy, but if the NHL'ers dont come to Vancouver in 2010, there will be hell to pay in Canada.

Oh, of course, I will be shot down by "let the greedy russians stay in their league, we dont want them". Typical. It will start with the premier Russian players, but soon enough more and more of the other Europeans will follow soon. There is money to be had in Russia. Bettman should realize this too. These are the guys who sell the game. Hockey is supposed to be a skill game. Yet we're raised in this Canadian culture to appreciate grit above all. What the **** is grit? Generally its a term describing a lack of skill. "Oh look at that good Canadian kid, he tries so hard, and embodies everything that we stand for in Canada", referring to that enforcer who has a career tally of goals that Alexander Ovechkin may be able to score in one game.

Would you rather pay money to watch Darcy Hordichuk or Ilya Kovalchuk play?

P.S. Senator: Rooney was sold for 30 million pounds to Manchester United, not Liverpool.

Oh, and you cant compare the soccer transfer systems. The financial health is considerably different between the two sports. Hockey's entire revenue can be matched by the top 4 English teams.

You really overestimate the power that the RSL has in this new league order.

With the excpetion of AK Barz, which was a special case last year, show me any RSL team that has a payroll even a significant fraction of the NHL floor, let alone the $39M cap.

Yes the NHL may lose a few players to the RSL because of the cap, but they are much more likely to be the older vet or journeyman squeezed out of the big $$$s by the cap, not the stars or potential future stars.

If RSL has so much power and money, you would thing that Ovechkin would be the poster boy for this new league with millions thrown at him, Nope. Where did he choose to play - the NHL. He knows that even with the ELS system, the NHL is the path to the big future payday, not the RSL.

 

[iagreewithidiots]

Wow between this and beating up on the union I now actually have a small amount of respect for Bettman.

 

[Pens75]

You make an excellent point Meriadoc Brandybuck...

But you forgot one of the most important factors.

Even though the money offered could be close, or even make more money in Russia, and money being a VERY important part, many players WANT to come to North America for several reasons...

Curiosity, have talk to their friends who have been here and played in the NHL and like what they hear, to fullfill a dream of their own to play in the NHL, to see what America is like for themselves, not pass on a once in a lifetime oppertunity, and so on.

Those are only a few off the top of my head.

When you are talking that much money, and the numbers are close, it's hard to ignore the "other side"

 

[gabby19]

if it's true, the little runt is starting to grow on me!

 

[SuperUnknown]

Its not always good money though, with no agreement the Russian clubs can just blackmail the hell out of the NHL teams....... specially with the NHL teams now losing the rights to their European players after 2 years.

It wont be the player is worth $1 mill give us that, it will be either give us $5 mill or we wont release him and you will lose him.

With no agreement though, the NHL doesn't have to wait for the player to be released. They can sign him even though he still has a contract in Russia. That's the whole point.

 

[thenextone]

Russia thinks its still in the Cold War and its citizens have no right to decide for themselves where they play.

If they want to play in NA, let them. If someone in Russia offers Idiot Kovalchuk more than Atlanta, let him go back there - but if the NHL wants to be no.1 someone will have to come up with the cash to pay him to play here - pure and simple.

I don't understand why the Russian Federation is crying if its league is indeed as wealthy as some people here claim it to be. Bettman's "leave it" option is quite good for them.

 

[ALF AmericanLionsFan]

Bad, how? Russian teams with valid signed contracts might be able to assert their rights over players, but aside from that it's really open season for the NHL now on Russian prospects and it won't cost them a penny rather than the 900k or so they would have paid in transfer fees for top Russian prospects.

Bad as in bad relations between the two leagues and a tougher time in getting talent over to the NHL.

 

[Riddarn]

That's a normal way in european sports. In soccer world they pay from 30 to 50 million dollars in transfer fees for one super star calliber player. But almost no one comes close to so much talent as Ovechkin. Who is not 27 but 18 and he is already the super star in the russian league. Better pay the dough or else. It is a robbery on the part of NHL. Plain and simple.

Yes, it's normal in Football. The biggest sport in the world, by a wide, wide margin. For every hockey player in the world, there are probably 500-1000 football players. So if you want to be generous about it, a transfer fee, for a super star caliber player, at about one percent of 30-50 million dollars would be apropriate.

 

[shveik]

Are there really no consequences for NHL teams to sign a Russian/Czech player if there is no IIHF-NHL agreement? Could not the player and the NHL team be sued? I do not see a european team getting any money out of such a suit, but they could stop the player from playing in the NHL, no?

 

[Kaizer]

Russia thinks its still in the Cold War and its citizens have no right to decide for themselves where they play

Are there in Russia such restrictions as ? :
- RFA till 27;
- Maximum salary is limited;
- Maximul salary in first contract is limited;
- Young player have to be property of team that drafter him or wait 2 years of his life to re-enter draft;

And where do players have more freedom when it comes to contracts neogitation ?

If they want to play in NA, let them

Nash wants to play for Toronto, Crosby for Montreal etc ... if they want, let them. What's wrong ?

 

[NWT Habs Fan]

Are there in Russia such restrictions as ? :
- RFA till 27;
- Maximum salary is limited;
- Maximul salary in first contract is limited;
- Young player have to be property of team that drafter him or wait 2 years of his life to re-enter draft;

And where do players have more freedom when it comes to contracts neogitation ?


Nash wants to play for Toronto, Crosby for Montreal etc ... if they want, let them. What's wrong ?

Interesting comparison.

I would suggest that the NHL lockout did help all leagues get a little greedy about keeping some of the elite talent (the NHL included). I guess like securing a good North American TV contract that actually pays money and moves the Cap upwards, some peace treaty with European select teams and leagues is also needed in the interim while the NHL is not the only show in town.

While I am sympathetic with the RSL and the Czech teams wanting to milk this, the current economics of the NHL are not in their favour. The NHL could eventually walk away and have most teams generally picking players from all other countries to avoid the big, black hole. How is that good for the game in the long run?

I sure hope all these egos and positions are eventually overcome by common sense and the will to promote this game globally after the big NHL-NHLPA fiasco that has put this sport a few steps back (I must throw a condition out there that the rest of the sport at the AHL, ECHL, CHL, NCAA, CIS and other levels never missed a beat during the lockout).

Guys, if we can reach a 600 page agreement between the NHL and NHLPA, how about a good old fashioned handshake and case by case negotiations between leagues and teams. Otherwise, the 11 kids drafted from Russia this year will be maybe one or two next season...and how does that help the sport??

 

[Wisent]

A 50 million transfer fee?

You're kidding, right? Tell me you're not saying this seriously.

No, he is right. In soccer that is not that rare. But the club gets that back mostly in jersey sales alone after a few years.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Well, from the Pens board, an article claiming that the issue has been resolved. Whether true or not, all that I can say is that has to be the most entertaining article that I have ever read.

But Bettmen not was disposed so bloodthirsty (it is immediately evident that the relation to the community after the ocean completely different). However, it is easy sovladal with the first provocative question: "that you felt, when they learned about the demarche of Russian side?"

Chapter NKHL he spoke quietly, exactly, clearly with the position of the force: "certainly, it was little pleasant. Season begins, everything is very serious. But 4 it is convinced that this problem will be decided. We are interested that we have the outstanding relations with IIKHF. This in the interests of entire hockey ".

the "interests of hockey" did not pinch, in the opinion of chapter NKHL, only if agreement is signed.

"it is bad, if not it is agreement. We be proud of the fact that the best league in the world and in it appear the best hockey players. And no one not it will be profitable, if player is leave to us without the compensation ", he passed to the straight threats.

"yes not in the money the matter, sighed manager" harmonies "Leonid Weisfeld. - we want so that would respect our contracts ".


though it does add at the end:

And only gennadi velichkin continued to pretend to be brave. "agreement with NKHL is not advantageous to Russia, it degrades us, said Magnitogorsk leader into the microphones. - we must not go to the concessions ". But also for it it was necessary to agree with the fact that the last word will remain after the owners.

Apparently, Russian league nevertheless ratifies agreement between IIKHF and NKHL.

http://babel.altavista.com/babelfis...news/18257/

 

[helicecopter]

Whether true or not, all that I can say is that has to be the most entertaining article that I have ever read.
.
.
.
.
http://babel.altavista.com/babelfis...news/18257/

The link doesn't work for me!

 

[iagreewithidiots]

Are there really no consequences for NHL teams to sign a Russian/Czech player if there is no IIHF-NHL agreement? Could not the player and the NHL team be sued? I do not see a european team getting any money out of such a suit, but they could stop the player from playing in the NHL, no?

I thought the same thing.

The european team would lose money fighting in court. But Im sure they could get some injunction barring the player from playing.

Really makes no sense for any invloved. Better to pay or let the player play his contract out.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The link doesn't work for me!

http://babel.altavista.com/babelfis...p=ru_en&trurl=http://metallurg.ru/news/18257/

Not sure why that did not, merely c&p'd it, but if it still does not, look on the Pens' board in the thread with a similar subject to this one.

 

[octopi]

Looks like he already won.

http://babel.altavista.com/babelfis...p=ru_en&trurl=http://metallurg.ru/news/18257/

Is this for sure? Must stop feeling of loathing being replaced with feeling of ....respect

 

[SENATOR]

A 50 million transfer fee?

You're kidding, right? Tell me you're not saying this seriously.

Why in hell not???????????

If Russian club is short of scorer to win the championship in playoffs before the trading deadline, the rich russian billioner, some of them can buy the whole NHL for breakfast, can bring for example Naslund for 30 million transfer fee from Vancuver. Normal business deals in europe and Russia.