Bettman and his owners are greedy pigs:They already WON

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Mountain Dude

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DR said:
by that logic, the players just want to make up the billion or so dollars they have lost over that same time period by not linking their salaries to accountants.

dr

Wow, did you at some point get a labotomy?

The players didn't lose anything, they all got rich.

The owners lots billions.

Seriously, I wish there was an ignore function, because I just got dumber reading your post.
 

Epsilon

#basta
Oct 26, 2002
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Mountain Dude said:
I'll go through your Pejorative Slured post and point out the obvious flaws.



The only way for the NHL to have long term success is through the cap, a low cap that will move when revenues move, you can have an impartial accountant that gets paid by both parties to determine what is revenue and what isn't.



Wow, thats for that great insight, right there you lose all possible credibility that an average human being comes in with. You of course come in with less, well, because clearly you're stupid.



The faster people realize that the players shouldn't have any say in this, the better. They talk a lot about a free market, yet they're in a ****ing union, there is nothing free market about this. If this was real free market, the owners would have had their salary cap 10 years ago. Because in real business, if the employees ***** and complain, they find themselves out on the street very fast. And hope that soon the NHLPA realizes they are holding no cards, because they aren't the ones writing the cheques.



The NHL can ask for whatever they **** they want, they are the league, and without those owners, all these NHL'ers would be working in garages making 1/100 of what they are currently making.



The league will be better off when the players realize they are just employees, and hopefully, soon replaced employees.

The sooner you get a clue about how labour works, the better. About the only point of yours worth anything at all is pointing out that his comments about Bettman were childish. Otherwise you are so far off the mark it isn't funny.
 

Brent Burns Beard

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Mountain Dude said:
Wow, did you at some point get a labotomy?

The players didn't lose anything, they all got rich.

The owners lots billions.

Seriously, I wish there was an ignore function, because I just got dumber reading your post.
pardon ?

the players have so far lost over a billion dollars this year alone.

dr
 

Epsilon

#basta
Oct 26, 2002
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Mountain Dude said:
Wow, did you at some point get a labotomy?

The players didn't lose anything, they all got rich.

The owners lots billions.

Seriously, I wish there was an ignore function, because I just got dumber reading your post.

The irony here is delicious. When this situation is resolved next year, I really hope one of the first things that we get to see is new free agent Jarome Iginla putting on a blue sweater with red and white trim.
 

Brent Burns Beard

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Mountain Dude said:
Mario said right at the beginning of the lockout that even if they get the originally desired cap, they would still likely fold. Why do you think that Mario is part owner, did you ever think of that one?

Calgary: We've been losing money for over the last 8 years, wow, one profitable year, and then, oh, guess what, all the salaries go up 15-25%, or we just lose that player.
i never said CGY has or hasnt been losing money. thats their own fault. the fact is, i saw first hand (as a Calgarian) the economic power of this city when they are turned onto their team.

consider they dont have a local TV contract, and only recently got a small regional package and an even smaller pay per view package, not too mention the upper part of the arena that they never opened during games, there is plenty of room for revenue growth here and an appetite amongst the fans to consume it.

dr
 

Mountain Dude

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DR said:
pardon ?

the players have so far lost over a billion dollars this year alone.

dr

No no, see, the players can't lose any money at all, because they nothing invested in this. They are merely employees, you can't lose money if you are an employee, you can only not make money.

And see, in the real world, you don't get to tell your boss how much you should make, you get told what you're making, and if you don't like it, than you can go to hell.
 

Bring Back Bucky

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DR said:
PIT ? i just had a passionate poster tell me how good a hockey market PIT is for TV and attendance and how well set up they are. PIT i am told is just fine.

MTL ? give me a break.

CGY ? CGY is probably the 3rd best place for a hockey team in all of the world.

EDM ? Maybe, too bad, but why kill the whole NHL just to save EDM.

dr


If you don't think Edmonton, Calgary & Pittsburgh are all in imminent danger, I believe you must have missed a boat which sailed a long time ago...
 

Mountain Dude

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DR said:
i never said CGY has or hasnt been losing money. thats their own fault. the fact is, i saw first hand (as a Calgarian) the economic power of this city when they are turned onto their team.

consider they dont have a local TV contract, and only recently got a small regional package and an even smaller pay per view package, not too mention the upper part of the arena that they never opened during games, there is plenty of room for revenue growth here and an appetite amongst the fans to consume it.

dr

How is their own fault they lost money, a bad dollar, along with an ever increasing pay role meant it was impossible to make any money.

You can't get a TV contract if no one wants to watch you play. You can't fill those extra seats if no one is interested because you can't field a competitive team. Look, we fielded a good team once, and what happened, we can't afford to keep them anymore.

What happened with your Pittsburgh argument, did you not figure out why Mario was part owner?
 

Mountain Dude

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Epsilon said:
The irony here is delicious. When this situation is resolved next year, I really hope one of the first things that we get to see is new free agent Jarome Iginla putting on a blue sweater with red and white trim.

What makes you say this will be resolved next year. And who cares where Jarome goes, all he's interested in is money, if there is a good cap, he can make as much money here as he will be able to make in NY.
 

Brent Burns Beard

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Mountain Dude said:
No no, see, the players can't lose any money at all, because they nothing invested in this. They are merely employees, you can't lose money if you are an employee, you can only not make money.

And see, in the real world, you don't get to tell your boss how much you should make, you get told what you're making, and if you don't like it, than you can go to hell.
1) the players contracts have not been honoured due to an owners imposed work stoppage. they are not being paid what is rightfully, morally and contractually theirs. that is lost money.

2) you are damn right you can tell your boss how much you should make. any good boss would help you get to your goal.

dr
 

Brent Burns Beard

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Mountain Dude said:
What happened with your Pittsburgh argument, did you not figure out why Mario was part owner?
its not my argument, its the passion i hear from PIT fans. they have told anyone who would listen how they are a great hockey market.

dr
 

Mountain Dude

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DR said:
1) the players contracts have not been honoured due to an owners imposed work stoppage. they are not being paid what is rightfully, morally and contractually theirs. that is lost money.

2) you are damn right you can tell your boss how much you should make. any good boss would help you get to your goal.

dr

:lol:

Wow, you're really dillusional. You go to your boss right now, and you say, I've just had an average year, if you want to keep me, pay me and extra 10%, see what he does, and if he "helps you get to your goal". :lol

You're not even worth arguing with clearly.
 

CarlRacki

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Feb 9, 2004
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DR said:
pardon ?

the players have so far lost over a billion dollars this year alone.

dr

Is comparing the losses of 700+ players with that of 30 owners really fair?
Think of it this way:

$1 billion/30 owners = $33.3 million per owner

$1 billion/720 players = $1.38 million per player
 

CarlRacki

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Feb 9, 2004
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DR said:
1) the players contracts have not been honoured due to an owners imposed work stoppage. they are not being paid what is rightfully, morally and contractually theirs. that is lost money.

2) you are damn right you can tell your boss how much you should make. any good boss would help you get to your goal.

dr

1. This, of course, is not true. There is no current CBA, which means the owners are absolutely within their right to lock out the players.

2. So, if I demand a 300 percent raise from my boss over the next decade, not only am I being reasonable, but any boss who refuses is a bad boss?
 

VanIslander

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Sep 4, 2004
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The players are protecting their ability to make OVER $5 million per season.

How can one sympathize with an attempt to avoid a salary cap?

The teams aren't greedy. They are thinking long term.
 

quat

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Apr 4, 2003
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DR said:
pardon ?

the players have so far lost over a billion dollars this year alone.

dr

Perhaps thinking about how it is that each group came to lose their money... and perhaps consider that the Owners are not making money from their NHL franchises this season either.
 

SuperUnknown

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CarlRacki said:
Is comparing the losses of 700+ players with that of 30 owners really fair?
Think of it this way:

$1 billion/30 owners = $33.3 million per owner

$1 billion/720 players = $1.38 million per player

I don't really think you can split things up like that. The owners aren't pocketing much of what's left after salaries.

But anyway... the reason the players are "losing" money is themselves. They could have got a deal signed at the start of the year and still get $1 billion, but they didn't. They want to "fight" for their principles and they're losing money. Tough luck. No sympathy from my side.
 

Brent Burns Beard

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CarlRacki said:
1. This, of course, is not true. There is no current CBA, which means the owners are absolutely within their right to lock out the players.

2. So, if I demand a 300 percent raise from my boss over the next decade, not only am I being reasonable, but any boss who refuses is a bad boss?
your boss isnt a bad boss if he refuses. he is a bad boss if he doesnt show you the path to get you to a place where you can demand a 300% in the next decade.

thats way off topic though.

the fact is, and im sure you will agree, how athletes place value on their services is a complete different dynamic than most of society. its not fair to hold this against them, its just part of the industry they are in.

dr
 

Brent Burns Beard

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Mountain Dude said:
:lol:

Wow, you're really dillusional. You go to your boss right now, and you say, I've just had an average year, if you want to keep me, pay me and extra 10%, see what he does, and if he "helps you get to your goal". :lol

You're not even worth arguing with clearly.
if i do that and he says no, i am free to quit and find a job at a competitor.

if this wasnt a hockey thread and board, it would be a very interesting conversation to have. because yes, i believe you can ask for whatever you think you are worth.

dr
 

Brent Burns Beard

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Smail said:
I don't really think you can split things up like that. The owners aren't pocketing much of what's left after salaries.

But anyway... the reason the players are "losing" money is themselves. They could have got a deal signed at the start of the year and still get $1 billion, but they didn't. They want to "fight" for their principles and they're losing money. Tough luck. No sympathy from my side.
fair enough, but then its not no different than me saying the reason the owners lost so much money was becuase they offered stupid contracts. tough luck, no sympatchy from my side.

dr
 

SuperUnknown

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DR said:
fair enough, but then its not no different than me saying the reason the owners lost so much money was becuase they offered stupid contracts. tough luck, no sympatchy from my side.

dr

No sympathy from me either for the losses suffered in the past. They're trying to fix that now, and it's their right, just as it's the right of the players to try to get the deal they want.

It's just that if you ask me as a businessman who I think is doing what they must and who isn't, I'll tell you that the owners are finally trying to right a ship that's been sinking for a while. I will never throw mud at a management trying to get their business right, for in the end, it is always better for the owners and the employees. However, I just can't understand the players who are losing more and more as days go by regardless of the final deal they get. When you own a tumbling stock, you cut your loss as soon as possible, forget about it and look ahead. Holding the stock while it's dying won't do you know good. The players are like Nortel shareholders after the share went from $100 to the bottom of the charts. They're holding and holding in the hopes it goes back up. In the meantime, their money ain't working for them and it's kinda hopeless. So cut the loss, negociate the best deal you can now, and look forward to the next cba, hoping that the hockey business will be in a better shape then.
 

myrocketsgotcracked

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DR said:
maybe i missed your answer ... the question was, would you be willing to wait as long as it takes if you knew that even the most favourable possible owners deal would result in your team folding.

i fail to see how teams like BUF have been farm teams. besides Peca and Hasek, who else have they lost that they shouldnt have ? im sure they have lost some guys, but attrition is a natural part of sports. its not like they didnt pick up Chris Drury, Dan Briere and resign Satan in the last two seasons.

BUF doesnt seem hard done by.

In fact, other than the dismantling of EDM and PIT, there are no real examples of teams existing only as a farm teams for the big markets. thats simply a cliche.

dr

DR
oh yea, they ONLY lost their captain, first line center, top penalty killer, selke trophy winner in peca, and its not like hasek did much in the nhl anyways, just 6 vezinas, 2 harts, 2 lester b, and 5 time first team all-star. any team can survive those losts, the sabres should just quit their b*tching!
and about players losing over a billion dollar this year, how can they lose something they never had? they sign contracts under the old cba to earn money while playing games in the nhl. they have yet to play a game in the nhl this season, so they havent got pay. if they havent got pay, how did they "lose" money? unless you believe the players already earn the money without playing any games. its not like they "lost" these money out of their pocket like the owners "lost" their money over the years, which seems like what you are suggesting.
 

RangerBoy

Dolan sucks!!!
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Bring Back Bucky said:
So much hate, so little love. By the way, Ranger Boy, what in particular don't you like about "NY NBA Lawyers"??? Care to elaborate on what that term means, as I think that many might mistakenly find it offensive????

Why is NY NBA Lawyers offensive?I can say that because I am an American and a born and bred New Yorker who was born in NYC

Bettman has no history.He doesn't love the NHL

Someone like Gerry Meehan of the Cardinal Sports Group should be the NHL Commissioner

Mr. Meehan is a graduate of the State University of New York at Buffalo School of Law in 1982. With over 35 years of experience in hockey at all levels, Mr. Meehan brings invaluable knowledge to Cardinal Sports.

Prior to beginning a legal career Mr. Meehan played 12 seasons of professional hockey, including four as a member of the Buffalo Sabres. Thereafter, Mr. Meehan practiced sports, corporate and immigration law with a private U.S. law firm. In 1984 Mr. Meehan rejoined the Sabres as Assistant General Manager/Associate Counsel, rising to the position of Vice President/General Manger in 1986. He held this position until 1993 when he became Executive Vice President - Sports Operations.

Mr. Meehan provides legal consultations to Cardinal Sports' clients with respect to NCAA regulations and eligibility issues. He is also a trusted advisor and source of experience to all Cardinal Sports' athletes.


http://www.cardinalsportsgroup.com/webstart/b1/ncaa/bios.asp

Former NHL player.Former NHL GM.Lawyer
 

Crazy Lunatic

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SuperKarateMonkey said:
oh yea, they ONLY lost their captain, first line center, top penalty killer, selke trophy winner in peca, and its not like hasek did much in the nhl anyways, just 6 vezinas, 2 harts, 2 lester b, and 5 time first team all-star. any team can survive those losts, the sabres should just quit their b*tching!
and about players losing over a billion dollar this year, how can they lose something they never had? they sign contracts under the old cba to earn money while playing games in the nhl. they have yet to play a game in the nhl this season, so they havent got pay. if they havent got pay, how did they "lose" money? unless you believe the players already earn the money without playing any games. its not like they "lost" these money out of their pocket like the owners "lost" their money over the years, which seems like what you are suggesting.

If you take next month off work and dont get paid, did you lose a months worth of wages or didn't you? The players lost well over 1 billion dollars of money they would have been guaranteed this year because of their stupidity.
 
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