Better GM? Toronto vs. Winnipeg

[olli]

Chevy has more to be judged on.

 

[Whileee]

Jets have Buff, Little, Wheeler, and Enstrom from the Atlanta days, pretty similar calibre players to Toronto.

Also, you can say the same for Laine and Ehlers as no brainers. Connor also fell in your lap too.

Also since when is a 30th pick and 2nd an expensive price to pay for a starting goaltender? What a ridiculous thing to say.

Jets rebuilt the organization from the ground up. It's not just about their roster, but also the strength down into the farm team and the wider prospect pool. It's fine if you don't think it was impressive, but most astute folks do. The Hockey News were sort of ridiculed by a bunch of posters around here for projecting the Jets as the 2019 Cup winners a few years ago. It isn't looking so ridiculous now - they had assessed the strength of the Jets drafting and organizational development.

I really like what the Leafs have done, I just think that they haven't done as much as the Jets' management has done yet, and they still have further to go in building the depth they'll need to be a long-term contender. I think they are clearly on the right track and have the right leaders in place, but I think that it will take a few more years before they get all the way there.

Yes, I think a 1st (Steel) and 2nd (Comtois) was a bit of a steep price to acquire a starting goalie, all things considered. Bishop cost a 4th rounder. Smith cost basically nothing. Dubnyk cost a 3rd rounder. Tuuka Rask cost basically nothing. Etc.

I'll note that the Jets drafted their starter (Hellebuyck), in the 5th round.

 

[BlueBaron]

JVR missed half the season. Bozak missed 25 games. Leafs seemed quite "injury prone" that season. Trading a 0.918 goalie is sort of a signal that you aren't trying to win very much.

It's fine if you don't think the Leafs tanked for the Matthews draft, but I think the evidence is pretty clear.

We traded for Bernier to be our starter so trading Reimer is not exactly that unexpected. When your evidence is conspiracy theories you have to consider your position might be weak.

 

[Whileee]

We traded for Bernier to be our starter so trading Reimer is not exactly that unexpected. When your evidence is conspiracy theories you have to consider your position might be weak.

Leafs acquired Bernier in 2013, and in 2015/16 he was clearly inferior to Reimer, but it was Reimer (0.918) that was traded. A team that is trying to win doesn't trade their best goalie, it's as simple as that.

You might want to look up the definitions of "conspiracy" and "theory". I'm merely openly stating my opinion that the Leafs made moves to reduce their competitiveness. I don't think that's a "conspiracy theory", I think it's exactly what they did.

If you look it up, there were articles as far back as the 2014/15 season that said that Shanahan has the endorsement of the team ownership to implement a "scorched earth" approach to rebuild through the draft. He has implemented the "Shanaplan" well, which included tanking in 2015/16 to get a top pick (Matthews). I think it was the right plan, and has been well-executed. It's just going to take another couple of years before they are really set up for stable, long-term success.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Not going to vote until I see what Lou does with his UFAs at the deadline.

 

[ijuka]

I haven't liked Lou's asset management very much. Leivo for instance is completely wasted, they sold Kessel for far too little and the Marleau signing was unnecessary and will handcuff them when it comes time to negotiate extensions. Zaitsev contract was too much too soon and is looking terrible at this point in time. The defense still hasn't been fixed. You can hardly credit him for winning the lottery either.

 

[Pyrophorus]

I haven't liked Lou's asset management very much. Leivo for instance is completely wasted, they sold Kessel for far too little and the Marleau signing was unnecessary and will handcuff them when it comes time to negotiate extensions. Zaitsev contract was too much too soon and is looking terrible at this point in time. The defense still hasn't been fixed. You can hardly credit him for winning the lottery either.

This has nothing to do with Lou. He did protect him.

How long would a defense take?

 

[kyle o connor]

This has nothing to do with Lou. He did protect him.

How long would a defense take?

Using what you traded for Andersen for a #2/3D and signing a serviceable FA goaltender would help no?

Just spitballing here.

 

[Kelly]

Lou also was hired after Kessel was traded.

 

[X66]

I haven't liked Lou's asset management very much. Leivo for instance is completely wasted, they sold Kessel for far too little and the Marleau signing was unnecessary and will handcuff them when it comes time to negotiate extensions. Zaitsev contract was too much too soon and is looking terrible at this point in time. The defense still hasn't been fixed. You can hardly credit him for winning the lottery either.

Kessel was traded before Lou.

The Marleau deal I'd argue hardly handcuffs them because of the way that it's structured. It's so badly front-loaded that Marleau is barely getting anything on the 3rd year of the deal, it really wouldn't surprise me if Marleau and the Leafs agree that he'll be moved(to retire) at the end of that year to a team trying to get to the cap floor. But essentially, they added a vet with size, strength, speed, two-way ability and 20+ goal scoring ability for nothing but cash.

The Leivo thing really isn't on Lou as it is on the coach. After all it was Lou that protected Leivo in the expansion draft and given him a contract extension.

Zaitsev definitely has room to improve, he's still a sophomore to the NHL. But to get a Dman for 4.5 that logs big minutes that can play both PK and PP is the going rate.

You can't rush to fix the defence. The Leafs haven't made any knee jerk trades to improve the defence. Look at the Leafs timetable, I don't think anyone expected them to be this good this fast, so it makes sense why the team has been patient with their D. They have high end prospects on D(Liljegren and Dermott) and have the assets to acquire another Dman if it makes sense.

He was also the GM the pulled off the Andersen trade, and where would the Leafs be without that. That is the single most important move in this rebuild so far(minus AM34 obviously). But having a stud goaltender that can allow the young guys to make mistakes and still provide solid goaltending was great for their growth.

 

[X66]

For all the pissing matches Leafs fans and Jets fans get into, this should be one area where both fan bases agree that both their management has made a lot of solid decisions.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Leafs acquired Bernier in 2013, and in 2015/16 he was clearly inferior to Reimer, but it was Reimer (0.918) that was traded. A team that is trying to win doesn't trade their best goalie, it's as simple as that.

You might want to look up the definitions of "conspiracy" and "theory". I'm merely openly stating my opinion that the Leafs made moves to reduce their competitiveness. I don't think that's a "conspiracy theory", I think it's exactly what they did.

If you look it up, there were articles as far back as the 2014/15 season that said that Shanahan has the endorsement of the team ownership to implement a "scorched earth" approach to rebuild through the draft. He has implemented the "Shanaplan" well, which included tanking in 2015/16 to get a top pick (Matthews). I think it was the right plan, and has been well-executed. It's just going to take another couple of years before they are really set up for stable, long-term success.

The Leafs traded Reimer because he was going to become a UFA and they obviously planned not to re-sign him and wanted something in return for him. So why don't you remember that before making any assumptions.

 

[Maplebeasts]

I would say Chevy now because he was the main architect of the roster. Lou came in when a lot of our young talent was in the system.