Better future: Buffalo Sabres vs Toronto Maple Leafs

Better future


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Thorton02

Registered User
Feb 6, 2009
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I will be honest all things being equal I would rather have ROR over Kadri, thing is all things are not equal.

ROR 5 more years 7.5 million per year on the cap.

Kadri 4 more years at 4.5 million per year on the cap

That is arguably the best non ELC contract in the NHL and it runs for 4 more years
Great. 4 more years of sinking his team by taking bone headed suspensions in the playoffs. Hopefully someone on the Leafs had enough awareness to chew him out for that.
 

Royal Thunder

Frolunda Mode
Feb 21, 2012
4,406
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Eichel has never been equal to Matthews at any point in their career.

Let me know when Eichel wins a major award, or finishes above a PPG, or makes the playoffs, or stops finishing last place.

Something, anything
Whatever man at least I can be somewhat objective and try to have a real conversation about this instead of just being stunningly transparent in my bias. Fact is, if they switched places last season, I don't think either team would have had a hugely different year. The Sabres would still suck and Matthews likely has a lot less points than Eichel who would be ppg+ easily on an offense like the Leafs. Matthews is the better goal scorer and plays a better 200 foot game but Eichel creates a lot more offense and scoring chances with his offensive arsenal.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
45,389
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Whatever man at least I can be somewhat objective and try to have a real conversation about this instead of just being stunningly transparent in my bias. Fact is, if they switched places last season, I don't think either team would have had a hugely different year. The Sabres would still suck and Matthews likely has a lot less points than Eichel who would be ppg+ easily on an offense like the Leafs. Matthews is the better goal scorer and plays a better 200 foot game but Eichel creates a lot more offense and scoring chances with his offensive arsenal.

What bias everything I said is true.

Matthews has a major award rookie of the year
Matthews finished last year above a PPG
Matthews has never missed the playoffs

Eichel has no major awards
He's never been above a pgg
He's never made the playoffs
He had 9 fewer goals in 5 more games.

No bias just facts
 

Royal Thunder

Frolunda Mode
Feb 21, 2012
4,406
3,426
What bias everything I said is true.

Matthews has a major award rookie of the year
Matthews finished last year above a PPG
Matthews has never missed the playoffs

Eichel has no major awards
He's never been above a pgg
He's never made the playoffs
He had 9 fewer goals in 5 more games.

No bias just facts

"What bias" LOL good one. So in your eyes, if they switched places, the Sabres get significantly better and the Leafs get worse. Got it.
 
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Mats13

Registered User
Apr 22, 2015
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This thread will make for a good bump.

Apparently the Sabres stars don't score as much because their team doesn't score as much.

Are we just supposed to ignore the fact that Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Kadri are the reason the Leafs score more??

If the Sabres star players were as good as the Leafs star players, they'd score as much. It's really that simple. This idea that players will start scoring more on better teams rarely ever comes to fruition in reality.
 

Team Cozens

Registered User
Oct 24, 2013
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This thread will make for a good bump.

Apparently the Sabres stars don't score as much because their team doesn't score as much.

Are we just supposed to ignore the fact that Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Kadri are the reason the Leafs score more??

If the Sabres star players were as good as the Leafs star players, they'd score as much. It's really that simple. This idea that players will start scoring more on better teams rarely ever comes to fruition in reality.

Can’t wait for the bump.
 

Jimmy Firecracker

Fire Sheldon.
Mar 30, 2010
35,559
34,104
Mississauga
This thread will make for a good bump.

Apparently the Sabres stars don't score as much because their team doesn't score as much.

Are we just supposed to ignore the fact that Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Kadri are the reason the Leafs score more??

If the Sabres star players were as good as the Leafs star players, they'd score as much. It's really that simple. This idea that players will start scoring more on better teams rarely ever comes to fruition in reality.

Basically. The Leafs in 15-16, before the additions of Matthews, Marner, and Nylander, scored 198 goals that year. The Buffalo Sabres of last season, with Eichel, Reinhart, and O'Reilly, scored 199. For a team that's supposedly equal (or at least close) to the Leafs talent at forward, it's pretty pathetic that they only managed one more goal than a team that was led in scoring by a 45 point Nazem Kadri. Who in the Sabres organization can have the impact on their offense that the Leafs Big Three did for Toronto's? Isn't Eichel supposed to be doing that already?

And not for nothing, but Toronto allowed 246 goals against in 15-16. The 17-18 Sabres? They allowed a whopping 280 this year. Bernier for the Leafs had a save percentage of .907, while Lehner's was .908. However, Bernier's GAA was 2.88 while Lehner's was 3.01. Very similar numbers, so why did Buffalo allow nearly 40 more goals between the two teams? Here's a hint; It's the defence. Dahlin will certainly help when he develops, but that will take time, and it'll take more than just him to fix the Sabre's abysmal D.

Leafs goals against and goals for have both been improving since the 15-16 season, as has their place in the overall standings. They've trended up the past three years. Buffalo on the other hand has steadily been getting worse in both goals against and for, and dropped in the overall standings. For all the boasting of Buffalo's awesome future core, they certainly haven't done much to fill a person with confidence.
 
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A1LeafNation

Obsession beats talent everytime!!
Oct 17, 2010
27,284
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Leafs have better management scouting coaching goaltending and forwards going forward.

Buffalo has potentially a better top pair, but not depth on defence. They have a long way to go.
 
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CowbellConray

Registered User
Sep 8, 2010
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As I stated before - as a SABRES fan - this is Toronto. Nothing from Buffalo's management has shown the ability to lift a team like Toronto did. You could argue top end skill favors Buffalo, but depth and coaching are not close.

However, this should not deter Sabres fans from being very excited about the future. We just grabbed what I would consider the 2nd best 1st overall prospect in the last 13 years. But lets also remember where we have been the last half decade and how far we still need to go.

The potential of the Sabres is very high, but the tangible results are not.

Oh - and I hate the Leafs and they suck and a grown man can be irrationally angry at any fans of a rival franchise...... so boo Leafs booooooooooo
 
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Deficient Mode

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
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Leafs depth and management is just soooooo much better even if Buffalo has the elite pieces (of which Risto is not one).
 

jonlin

Registered User
Nov 11, 2011
5,883
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Leafs depth and management is just soooooo much better even if Buffalo has the elite pieces (of which Risto is not one).

Risto is certainly one. He has just had too much ice-time and bad defensive partners. Hes gone downhill this year. Could be lack of confidence like the whole team seemed to have?
 

Deficient Mode

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
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Risto is certainly one. He has just had too much ice-time and bad defensive partners. Hes gone downhill this year. Could be lack of confidence like the whole team seemed to have?

Yeah, if you can't handle 1st pairing minutes maybe you're not a 1st pairing defenseman
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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Yeah, if you can't handle 1st pairing minutes maybe you're not a 1st pairing defenseman

Risto isn't elite, but there's some middle ground between an elite piece & 'not a first pairing guy'. I like Rielly more than Risto, but that doesn't mean that Risto won't grow into a quality top pairing guy. He has a lot of EJ to him. Though I doubt he'll develop quite that well and become a legit (if not high-end) #1.
 

Deficient Mode

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
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Risto isn't elite, but there's some middle ground between an elite piece & 'not a first pairing guy'. I like Rielly more than Risto, but that doesn't mean that Risto won't grow into a quality top pairing guy. He has a lot of EJ to him. Though I doubt he'll develop quite that well and become a legit (if not high-end) #1.

Most players - even defensemen - peak in value at around Risto's age. If a player barely moves the needle in a positive direction on a terrible team and has more seasons of disastrous than average 5 on 5 results, it's a reasonable bet that he'll never become a legitimate top pairing defenseman - whether he's a good PP QB or not. There are certainly examples of defensemen who are overdeployed and played with poor partners who get run over far less at 5 on 5 - even on a terrible team.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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Most players - even defensemen - peak in value at around Risto's age. If a player barely moves the needle in a positive direction on a terrible team and has more seasons of disastrous than average 5 on 5 results, it's a reasonable bet that he'll never become a legitimate top pairing defenseman - whether he's a good PP QB or not. There are certainly examples of defensemen who are overdeployed and played with poor partners who get run over far less at 5 on 5 - even on a terrible team.

Oh he definitely needs to start putting it together soon, but he’s just 23. There have been plenty of 6’4” defenseman who ended up top pairing guys but didn’t start putting it together until that age.

Not even getting into how much more being the lone non-Scandella blueliner on that team who was worth a damn even in that mess of a “system”. Even if the coaching remains questionable, just the addition of Dahlin & Guhle should have a profound impact on his development. He’s just played way too many minutes with way too much responsibilty and way too little help so far in his buffalo career.
 

Halla

Registered User
Jan 28, 2016
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Whatever man at least I can be somewhat objective and try to have a real conversation about this instead of just being stunningly transparent in my bias. Fact is, if they switched places last season, I don't think either team would have had a hugely different year. The Sabres would still suck and Matthews likely has a lot less points than Eichel who would be ppg+ easily on an offense like the Leafs. Matthews is the better goal scorer and plays a better 200 foot game but Eichel creates a lot more offense and scoring chances with his offensive arsenal.

ywah yeah yeah the team excuse.

funny how the sabres were an 80pt team when matthews arrived and the leafs were the WORST team in the league but not one sabres fans used the team excuse then.

Eichel creates a lot more offense ...care to elaborate on that? because for me the guy with more goals despite playing 65 less games creates more
 

Halla

Registered User
Jan 28, 2016
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Risto isn't elite, but there's some middle ground between an elite piece & 'not a first pairing guy'. I like Rielly more than Risto, but that doesn't mean that Risto won't grow into a quality top pairing guy. He has a lot of EJ to him. Though I doubt he'll develop quite that well and become a legit (if not high-end) #1.

Risto needs to work on his play away from the puck. He is still young and has time to do it
 
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IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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Although Eichel has great individual talent, the Sabres have appeared to go backwards under his reign in Buffalo.

Perhaps Buffalo will explore potential trade options? It definitely makes sense, asset management is very important in today's NHL and recouping any remaining value from Eichel (despite his massive contract) could be the best move.
 

Critical13

Fear is the mind-killer.
Feb 25, 2017
12,617
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Sitting at a desk.
You guys are arguing Eichel and Matthews when they are so close that it really doesn't win or lose this decision.

The real gap between Buffalo and Toronto, IMO, is the gap in talent depth wise and in net. Toronto has much better complimentary pieces IMO, and they have their #1 goalie for the foreseeable future. Buffalo has awful depth (because they are playing higher than they should in the lineup) and very shaky goaltending.

Buffalo is sadly on the right path though. A couple more top 15 picks and developing a few of their young guys will go a long way. The emergence of Mittelstadt as a legit 2nd line C/1st line W would be huge.
 
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Deficient Mode

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
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Oh he definitely needs to start putting it together soon, but he’s just 23. There have been plenty of 6’4” defenseman who ended up top pairing guys but didn’t start putting it together until that age.

Not even getting into how much more being the lone non-Scandella blueliner on that team who was worth a damn even in that mess of a “system”. Even if the coaching remains questionable, just the addition of Dahlin & Guhle should have a profound impact on his development. He’s just played way too many minutes with way too much responsibilty and way too little help so far in his buffalo career.

I'm not optimistic about his future either way - whether he was just rushed or if he was always going to be a power play guy and mediocre at even strength. He's just nowhere near the 7 other names in the OP, or a "core" piece at this point. Jake Gardiner - as maligned as he is by many Leafs fans - has always been a far better player, even when the Leafs were as bad as the Sabres are now.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,988
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I'm not optimistic about his future either way - whether he was just rushed or if he was always going to be a power play guy and mediocre at even strength. He's just nowhere near the 7 other names in the OP, or a "core" piece at this point. Jake Gardiner - as maligned as he is by many Leafs fans - has always been a far better player, even when the Leafs were as bad as the Sabres are now.

I wouldn’t wanna bet on him putting it together either, but I’m not that low on him. I think there was a point before he got overwhelmed by it all where he was a lot better defensively than Gardiner has ever been. Even with my concerns about him I see a good 2/3 who’s a nice partner for Dahlin or Guhle in their top 4, in the long run
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,988
19,060
w/ Renly's Peach
Risto needs to work on his play away from the puck. He is still young and has time to do it

He does still have time but it needs to start clicking by the end of the decade...aka this season or next...or I worry he’ll forever be one those “all tools, no toolbox” types like Phaneuf.

Fortunately for Buffalo I’m very high on Dahlin & Guhle, and so expect having one them to do the thinking for him will be a major boon to his development
 
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