Andersen was a separate trade. I've never understood the mentality of including what the assets of a trade included in another trade bring back as relevant
Best win win trades of all time
- Thread starter Zhamnov5GoalGame
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Andersen was a separate trade. I've never understood the mentality of including what the assets of a trade included in another trade bring back as relevant
VoluntaryDom
Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
Oilers Propagandist
Relax junior, it’s just a post.
Well worth it. Watching a player of his calibre play on my fabourite team is a treat I never thought would happen. My pops watched gretz in his prime and now I get to witness a player > crosby play in Edmonton.
It seemed fine for years when the Kessel trade to Toronto was discussed. No one took issue with that then.
They used the asset of the Pens first rounder to get Andersen. It is connected.
Well, I've always taken issue with doing that. Believe what you want, but I find it silly to include another trade that happened 19 days later as part of the deal.
Moose Head
Registered User
Habs got Melanson in the deal. Played well in his very few games, but was always injured. Habs did get a pretty good goalie coach out of it for a few years though.
Neutrinos
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Forwards tend to peak early, so I'm not prepared to declare the Johansen/Jones trade a "win-win" after only 1.5 seasons
Yes, it filled a need for both teams, but Jones' development seems to be on par with that of Hedman
Factor in their respective cap hits, and I can't imagine Nashville feels as though they "won" the trade
Yes, it filled a need for both teams, but Jones' development seems to be on par with that of Hedman
Factor in their respective cap hits, and I can't imagine Nashville feels as though they "won" the trade
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DaveG
Noted Jerk
In a round-about and very convoluted way it worked for Hartford/Carolina, but yeah, definitely on its face it was anything but win-win when Shanahan prettymuch immediately wants out.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Nashville's never had a #1C. Now they do. And that led to a Cup finals appearance last year.
Trades aren't necessarily automatically judged win-win by who gets the better player.
Johansen is easily the best centerman we've ever had, while Jones is going to be a great defenseman for years to come we've had several defenders on par or better than him throughout our history. Johansen is way more important to our club than Jones is/was/would be.
If we had to do over that trade again knowing what we know now, I'd happily add to get Johansen.
Neutrinos
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Savard for Chelios immediately comes to mind - which is now considered one of the worst trades in NHL history
Sure, the Habs won the Cup a few years later with Savard on the roster, but like Johansen, he wasn't able to play in the Finals
Howie Hodge
Zombie Woof
Capitals acquire Rod Langway, C Doug Jarvis, RW Craig Laughlin and D Brian Engblom from the Canadiens for C/LW Ryan Walter and D Rick Green; Sept. 9, 1982.
Made Washington competitive for years. Montreal won a Cup.
(Unfortunately Laughlin became Caps Colorman. "Gorgeous puh - asssssssssss.....")
Made Washington competitive for years. Montreal won a Cup.
(Unfortunately Laughlin became Caps Colorman. "Gorgeous puh - asssssssssss.....")
The Panther
Registered User
I personally thought this was a good trade for both teams:
November 24, 1987:
Paul Coffey traded to Pittsburgh by Edmonton with Dave Hunter and Wayne Van Dorp
for Craig Simpson, Dave Hannan, Moe Mantha, and Chris Joseph.
After this trade, the two franchises combined to win 4 of the next 5 Stanley Cups, which says it all really (although Coffey wasn't part of the second Pittsburgh one).
Simpson blossomed in Edmonton and was a force from about 1987 to 1991 (led the 1990 playoffs in scoring), and only injuries stopped him when he was about 25. Coffey continued to be Coffey, although his defensive responsibilities in Pittsburgh were at times lacking.
But the real significance of this trade was what it said about both teams (aside from also saying that Edmonton was starting to become cheap): The Oilers were going to moderate their offensive game and be a more balanced team without a 'rover'; the Penguins were going to start stepping up to be a 'big-time' team and begin to surround Lemieux with some All-Star talent.
November 24, 1987:
Paul Coffey traded to Pittsburgh by Edmonton with Dave Hunter and Wayne Van Dorp
for Craig Simpson, Dave Hannan, Moe Mantha, and Chris Joseph.
After this trade, the two franchises combined to win 4 of the next 5 Stanley Cups, which says it all really (although Coffey wasn't part of the second Pittsburgh one).
Simpson blossomed in Edmonton and was a force from about 1987 to 1991 (led the 1990 playoffs in scoring), and only injuries stopped him when he was about 25. Coffey continued to be Coffey, although his defensive responsibilities in Pittsburgh were at times lacking.
But the real significance of this trade was what it said about both teams (aside from also saying that Edmonton was starting to become cheap): The Oilers were going to moderate their offensive game and be a more balanced team without a 'rover'; the Penguins were going to start stepping up to be a 'big-time' team and begin to surround Lemieux with some All-Star talent.
It's too bad Oleg Tverdovsky didn't work out. Thought he could still be a 40-50 point defenseman.
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For the Devils, a couple of trades at the 2000 deadline were win-win. They moved Brendan Morrison and Denis Pederson for Alexander Mogilny which balanced the Devils lineup which was overloaded with LW/C. Mogilny had his struggles but was involved in some big moments during the 2000 Cup run. He also led the Devils in goals (Devils also led the league in GF) the following season.
Morrison formed a productive line with Markus Naslund and Todd Bertuzzi as Vancouver became more competitive and ended Colorado's stranglehold on the division. Pederson's career unfortunately got derailed with injuries.
The Devils moved a young Sheldon Souray for Vladimir Malakhov. Malakhov was a tremendous luxury on the 3rd pair while supplementing the 2nd PP unit. Malakhov was notorious for being an enigma, but for those few months he was great. One overlooked difference between the 2000 Devils that won and the 2001 Devils that fell short was not being able to fill in the Malakhov void.
Souray would have a very respectable tenure with Montreal.
Different scenarios though. Savard was 29 at the time though, and immediately declined. Johansen was 23 at the time, has played like expected, and is unlikely to decline any time soon. Chelios was also easily Montreal's best defenseman at the time, and a past Norris winner. Jones was Nashville's 5th defenseman, and largely unproven. And even if he becomes Norris caliber, the team already has a guy at that level on the right side in Subban, as well as another just under that level on the left in Josi, as well as two other great top 4 defensemen in Ekholm and Ellis. And the oldest is only 28. At a certain point there's diminishing returns for keeping a number of great defensemen if your center depth is terrible. I would be very surprised if Nashville came to regret that trade
vadim sharifijanov
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mogilny is an interesting case. both times he was traded, he was the best player in the trade. but in both cases, obviously the first trade moreso than the second, you could argue that the other team got more mileage out of the lesser player (mike peca, brendan morrison) than the team that got mogilny got. both guys were longtime franchise stalwarts, both were miscast as #1 centers but performed heroically in that role and were arguably the most important part of the team's leadership core.
Neutrinos
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Savard is less than a year older than Chelios
And trading a a quarter for a dime because you have an abundance of quarters and no dimes isn't maximizing the value of your assets
But that's irrelevant as defensemen age better typically and forwards from that era tended to fall off offensively fairly quickly. Had the Habs made that trade when both were in their early 20s, it wouldn't be seen as a bad deal, despite Chelios being the better player overall, as the Habs still would have gotten their elite number one center they wanted for a number of years.
And that analogy is a gross exaggeration. Johansen is hardly a dime to Jones' quarter. Even if Jones becomes a Norris level defenseman, which I don't believe he will, Johansen is a young, legit #1 center with size. Those don't come around often and if they do you generally have to pay through the nose. Jones wasn't returning any of the truly elite centers out there so I disagree that it wasn't maximizing assets. Theoretically you could argue they could have waited for him to improve and increase his value, but that also limits the years of you trying to compete, and they would not have just made the finals if that were the case. Perhaps they could have traded Weber or Josi for a better center and let Jones develop, but that assumes a better center was available, and it's unlikely a significant upgrade (basically a top 10 center then) would have been available.
Neutrinos
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Yes, I undervalued Johansen, but did so just to emphasize the point of value
To say that this is a win-win trade for both teams suggests that whatever happens going forward, neither team will have regrets
I think it's too early for such claims
Ken Wreggets revenge
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If the Andersen trade was a straight trade of the Pens 1st rounder for Andersen then I would disagree with you. That would be no different then saying the leafs didn't receive a 1st rounder from Pittsburgh in that trade. However, that's not what happened on June 20th, 2016. The Leafs flipped the 1st round pick from the Kessel trade AND a 2017 2nd round pick. In my opinion, because the Leafs had to add a pick to the Andersen trade, then it can't be said that Kessel brought the Leafs Andersen.
It's been suggested in this thread that the Kessel trade was good for both teams. A good deal for Pittsburgh for obvious reasons and with the argument for the Leafs side being either the Andersen trade that followed or allowing the Leafs ride a wave of futility all the way to the #1 pick. I think the trade was a win for the Leafs for another reason. Kasperi Kapanen has more than enough skill and would be a full-time NHL player today if the Leafs weren't hoarding quality forwards. Son of Sami is ready for prime-time and I'm looking forward to the day JVR, Bozak or another UFA forward get shipped out and Kapanen is plugged into that top nine sized hole left by the aforementioned pending trade. In my opinion, that's when the Kessel trade really starts paying off for the Leafs.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
