Best Team to not win a Cup

[acr*]

Obviously I'm a little biased, but the late-70s Bruins with O'Reilly, Park, Middleton, Ratelle, etc. could've won a lot if not for the powerhouse Habs. They faced them basically every year at that time, and put up an okay fight sometimes, sometimes got killed, and in '79 they would've won had they not made one stupid mistake.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

93' leafs... robbed :angryfire:

most overrated playoff run ever...3 Game 7s for the Leafs was hardly dominating or deserving of the Cup
plus Gretz had his best game ever

 

[clefty]

Disagree with the current Senators. To get consideration from me, they'd have to actually look like winning something in the postseason. If they were regularly able to actually go far in the playoffs, make a Cup final, then maybe. But they've made it out of the first round what, twice? They just turn to butter when April comes around.

 

[GirardIsStupid]

What about the '96 Wings? They had set a season record for wins and were clearly the favorites over the Avalanche.

 

[DaveG]

The Bruins from the late 80s - early 90s. They never were able to put it together and win the finals but they were always on the brink of doing just that.

Mid 80s Flyers - they just couldn't get past the Oilers like so many other teams.

Recent Senators - The goaltending to win it always seemed to evade this team, but the tallent of these teams can not be denied.

Recent Maple Leafs - Loaded with tallent and loaded with bad luck and bad timing. 2002 with their 3 OT losses to Carolina may have been their best chance to win it all.

Individual Team:
1992-93 Penguins - They set the record for points in a season that year and looked set to bring home their 3rd streight cup. Instead, they were bounced out early and Montreal went on to win it.

 

[God Bless Canada]

A few random thoughts:

Those late 70s Bruin teams were special. They'd have my pick. Only the dominance of the Habs prevented Grapes from winning a couple Cups.

Thing about the mid-to-late 80s/early 1990s Flyers and Bruins is they likely would have won a Cup (think Flyers in 87 and Bruins in 90 and 91), but there were a lot of years when Calgary was better than anyone the East threw out. (Think 1985 and 1988. Montreal only won in 1986 because of Roy's goaltending).

Buffalo in the late 1970s was pretty special, too, just ran into the Flyers and Habs. The early-to-mid 1980s Quebec Nordiques had some terrific talent, just not a goalie to get them to the next level.

Washington never won anything in the 80s because their coach is a choke artist. (It's true. Look at Murray's playoff record. I don't think he ever got past the second round as a coach, and that was with some potent Washington/Detroit teams).

 

[The Legend]

The recent Maple Leafs have no place in this thread. 1 division title in the last 6 seasons (that season they were 7th overall). No President's trophies (or anywhere close), no trips to the finals. In that 6-year stretch, they've had a top-5 record in the NHL twice. Over that stretch, at least 7 teams are better - NJ, Colorado, Detroit, Dallas, St. Louis, Philly, Ottawa. They've been a good team, but not an elite team.

As well, they've reached 100 points 3 times in the last 6 years, but none of those would have happened without the new overtime format/OTL point.

St. Louis? Dallas? Ottawa?

Are you kidding me?

Firstly, the Leafs have finished in the following places in the conference the last 6 seasons:

4th, 3rd(Division title), 7th, 4th, 5th, 4th.

That ain't too shabby. Also include the fact that in many of those seasons, the Leafs have gotten more points than the other divison winners(Southeast every year except 2001, 2004).

St. Louis has gone to the conference finals once. They have been eliminated in the first round 2 or 3 times.

Dallas missed the playoffs one year. What's even funnier is that the thread is entitled best team to not win a cup. Dallas won a cup.


But the most hilarious argument is Ottawa. Making a statement like that is bound to start a flame war. I'm not gonna go into specifics cause it's been done, but only one year in the past 6 has Ottawa gone farther then the Leafs. Both teams' core have remained relatively the same over that span.

 

[mercury]

The Flyers had the Cup served up to them over a silver platter in 1999-00, and they committed one of the great all-time playoff chokes. I thought it was a done deal once we beat the Pens in that 5OT game, and went up 3-1 against the Devils. Horrific is too gentle a word.

 

[gr8haluschak]

St. Louis? Dallas? Ottawa?

Are you kidding me?

Firstly, the Leafs have finished in the following places in the conference the last 6 seasons:

4th, 3rd(Division title), 7th, 4th, 5th, 4th.

That ain't too shabby. Also include the fact that in many of those seasons, the Leafs have gotten more points than the other divison winners(Southeast every year except 2001, 2004).

St. Louis has gone to the conference finals once. They have been eliminated in the first round 2 or 3 times.

Dallas missed the playoffs one year. What's even funnier is that the thread is entitled best team to not win a cup. Dallas won a cup.


But the most hilarious argument is Ottawa. Making a statement like that is bound to start a flame war. I'm not gonna go into specifics cause it's been done, but only one year in the past 6 has Ottawa gone farther then the Leafs. Both teams' core have remained relatively the same over that span.

See this is why I love Leaf fans they still are clouded by bias. How about you look at reality here first you talk about Toronto being more deserving than St Louis since 96-97 who has finished higher in the overall standings - only three times has Toronto finished higher than St Louis. You talk about Ottawa (and trust me it pains me to defend the Sens) and since that same time Ottawa has finished higher two more times than Toronto so don't think the hockey world owes you anything because there are FAR more deserving teams than the Leafs.

 

[Form and Substance]

Not really an elite team but Vancouver from 91-94 were rpetty good, oddly enough the season they almost won a cup, they were barely over .500.

 

[gr8haluschak]

I will throw two out there on top of the St Louis teams from 90 on to now (not all years included but still they had some good years and for the span of 4 years they lost the eventual cup champs) and those are the (boy this really pains me) The Flames of the 80's (they should have had more than one cup) and the Jets of the late 80's. If these teams did not have to lose to the Oil year after year there is a very good chance they could have been cup champions.

 

[Marcus-74]

My vote goes for Buffalo Sabres of the 70s. It had that great French Connection -line, a really solid second line, and the rest of the team wasn´t such bad either.

 

[#66]

I'm going to have to go with the Blackhawks twice. Once in the 60's with Glenn Hall and the again in the early 70's with Tony Esposito.

 

[Chili]

My choice would be the early '70's Hawks. Chicago Stadium was rockin' then with the Hulls, Mikita, Esposito and alot of other fine players. I have wondered how that team would have done if they had not dealt Phil Esposito away.

For one year, I would pick the 70/71 Bruins who smashed the record books that season but were upset by Ken Dryden and the Habs in the playoffs. Honourable mention to the 92/93 Pens who were a great team.

 

[Snap Wilson]

My choice would be the early '70's Hawks. Chicago Stadium was rockin' then with the Hulls, Mikita, Esposito and alot of other fine players.

Espo was gone by '68, but point taken. The Hawks best team was '66-67, probably one of the most exciting teams I've ever watched, period. Everything came together that year, everything was clicking. They came out on the short end in the playoffs. It happens. They also came within a whisker in '71, probably the most exciting set of playoffs in my lifetime. Only one of the seven series went less than six games!

My vote would go to the mid-80s Flyers as well, a team that was much stronger on the ice than their Stanley Cup winning 70s counterparts. A lot of other great also-rans mentioned as well.

 

[Trottier]

They also came within a whisker in '71, probably the most exciting set of playoffs in my lifetime. Only one of the seven series went less than six games!

A mere lad in single digits at the time was introduced to this great game that spring. Refresh my fading memory: I recall the NYR/Chicago series going seven, what with Pete Stemkowski scoring the game winner in OT of Game six at MSG, late in the evening. The two teams then had to turn around and fly to Chicago for Game Seven, which started the next afternoon(!)

Also vaguely recall Bobby Hull scoring off a clean face-off draw slapshot to win one of those games in OT in Chicago. Also in the series, either Bobby or his brother blooded Ed Giacomin's glove hand with the impact of a horrific slapshot.

Where have you gone Eric Nestorenko?

Funny how these trivial things cling to one's mind.

 

[Chili]

They also came within a whisker in '71, probably the most exciting set of playoffs in my lifetime. Only one of the seven series went less than six games!

Agreed and probably why I reflect on that year's playoffs frequently.

My kingdom for a dvd set of that years playoffs in their entirety!

The two series I remember MTL/BOS and MTL/CHI were fabulous, 3 great teams, only one could win. Game 7 of the finals in the Chicago Stadium was a classic.

 

[MS]

St. Louis? Dallas? Ottawa?

Are you kidding me?

Firstly, the Leafs have finished in the following places in the conference the last 6 seasons:

4th, 3rd(Division title), 7th, 4th, 5th, 4th.

And this is the track record of one of the best teams ever not to win a Cup? An average finish if 4th-5th in the conference over a 6-year span? Uh ... OK.

That ain't too shabby. Also include the fact that in many of those seasons, the Leafs have gotten more points than the other divison winners(Southeast every year except 2001, 2004).

St. Louis has gone to the conference finals once. They have been eliminated in the first round 2 or 3 times.

Dallas missed the playoffs one year. What's even funnier is that the thread is entitled best team to not win a cup. Dallas won a cup.


But the most hilarious argument is Ottawa. Making a statement like that is bound to start a flame war. I'm not gonna go into specifics cause it's been done, but only one year in the past 6 has Ottawa gone farther then the Leafs. Both teams' core have remained relatively the same over that span.

St. Louis was a dominant team for a couple years, won a President's Trophy. That was a scary, stacked hockey team, far better than Toronto's. From 1999-2002 they were as good as Colorado, Dallas, Detroit, and battled those teams neck-and-neck.

Ottawa has one the Northeast Division 3 times in the last 6 years, Toronto once. They also won a President's Trophy.

I brought up Dallas to show that Toronto was no better than the 8th best team in the league over the past 6 years.

This thread is about the best teams ever not to win a Cup. Teams like the mid-80s Flyers, mid-70s Sabres, late-70s Bruins were amongst the top 2-3 teams in the game for a few years. Toronto was never anything close to that level, rarely even winning their division.

 

[Snap Wilson]

Trots: How's this one for your fading memory? The first-round brawl against the Leafs in MSG where Parent lost his dome into the crowd. That was an intense series. Both of the Rags series that year were particularly violent, as I recall.

Chiller: Read it and weep. The entire footage likely ain't available. Before the advent of VHS, most television stations destroyed game film rather than store it. The 1971 Montreal-Boston series has thankfully been preserved. I have most of it stored away on VHS (transferred from half-inch reel to reel, believe it or not). I hope to transfer it to DVD soon.

And it was FOUR great teams. The powerhouse Bruins (best offense of all time?), The Habs, the Hawks *and* the Rangers, outstanding defensive squad, great goaltender, the G-A-G line. You could write a book about that year's playoffs.

 

[Chili]

Montreal/Chicago finals 1971

That is a real shame if the tapes of that series are lost forever...Definitely one of the best I have seen, probably even the best.

Edit: money, that wasn't intended to slight the Rangers, I just don't remember if I saw any of their playoff games that year. But I do remember listening to a number of their games on the radio around that time...Hadfield, Ratelle and Gilbert might have been the best line in hockey for a few years. Giacomin in net (ed-die, ed-die), Park, Neilson, Seiling etc on defence. They had a fine team as well.

 

[Trottier]

Trots: How's this one for your fading memory? The first-round brawl against the Leafs in MSG where Parent lost his dome into the crowd. That was an intense series. Both of the Rags series that year were particularly violent, as I recall.

I do remember that! I think Plante had to go into net in that game as a result, no? NYR won a game or two in OT in that series as well, including, I believe, the last one.

Top memory of the following spring ('72). NYR's impressive series win against the defending champion Habs, and Bobby Orr single-handedly destroying NYR in the Finals. Sports Illustrated cover at the time featured a foldout of Espo and Orr with the headline: "Boston's Big Guns...Fire on New York."

When I read here that all film/video of those years are history, I want to cry. They destroyed the glory of my (and many other's) youth.

 

[chooch*]

I do remember that! I think Plante had to go into net in that game as a result, no? NYR won a game or two in OT in that series as well, including, I believe, the last one.

Top memory of the following spring ('72). NYR's impressive series win against the defending champion Habs, and Bobby Orr single-handedly destroying NYR in the Finals. Sports Illustrated cover at the time featured a foldout of Espo and Orr with the headline: "Boston's Big Guns...Fire on New York."

When I read here that all film/video of those years are history, I want to cry. They destroyed the glory of my (and many other's) youth.

There was a nice color photo in the local paper a couple of days ago in an article on John Damico's passing that had him in between Hadfield and Frank - it must have been 71/72 or 73/74 playoffs.

 

[Porn*]

most overrated playoff run ever...3 Game 7s for the Leafs was hardly dominating or deserving of the Cup
plus Gretz had his best game ever

what?

your obviously choosing to ignore the blatant highstick penelty on gretzky that was never called... hell he cut gilmour and then scored the winner.

what a crock!

 

[Snap Wilson]

Since I have the spreadsheet right here in front of me, I figured I would use my SDS method (see here for explanation) to weigh in on the debate. Here are the top ten one-year through five-year records of teams that didn't win the Cup:

One-Year SDS
1. 1996 Detroit Red Wings - 2.52
2. 1971 Boston Bruins - 2.28
3. 1934 Toronto Maple Leafs - 2.27
4. 1980 Buffalo Sabres - 2.10
5. 2001 New Jersey Devils - 2.08
6. 1979 New York Islanders - 2.06
7. 1995 Detroit Red Wings - 2.03
8. 1953 Detroit Red Wings - 1.99
9. 1982 Montreal Canadiens - 1.98
10. 1997 Colorado Avalanche - 1.92

Detroit with no less than three appearances on the list. Pretty funny that both the '96 Wings and '97 Avalanche are on there. Turnabout is fair play!

Most of these teams won a Cup within a year or two of their big years, and the Sabres were a fluke.

Two-Year SDS

1. 1995-96 Detroit Red Wings - 4.55
2. 1934-35 Maple Leafs - 3.60
3. 2003-04 Ottawa Senators - 3.51
4. 1981-82 Montreal Canadiens - 3.51
5. 1978-79 New York Islanders - 3.48
6. 1994-95 Detroit Red Wings - 3.43
7. 1927-28 Montreal Canadiens - 3.41
8. 1986-87 Philadelphia Flyers - 3.32
9. 1980-81 Buffalo Sabres - 3.28
10. 1982-83 Edmonton Oilers - 3.27

If anyone has any doubts to the strength of the Islanders competition of the early 80s...

Three-Year SDS
1. 1994-96 Detroit Red Wings - 5.95
2. 1980-82 Montreal Canadiens - 5.09
3. 1985-87 Philadelphia Flyers - 4.91
4. 1934-36 Toronto Maple Leafs - 4.66
5. 1977-79 New York Islanders - 4.60
6. 1993-95 Detroit Red Wings - 4.59
7. 1927-29 Montreal Canadiens - 4.50
8. 1981-83 Montreal Canadiens - 4.39
9. 2002-04 Ottawa Senators - 4.35
10. 1988-90 Montreal Canadiens - 4.21

A pattern develops. Early-90s Wings (pre-Cup), early-80s Habs (post-Cup). People forget that the Habs remained a beast even after their dynastic run.

Four-Year SDS
1. 1993-96 Detroit Red Wings - 7.11
2. 1980-83 Montreal Canadiens - 5.97
3. 1992-95 Detroit Red Wings - 5.93
4. 2001-04 Ottawa Senators - 5.79
5. 1984-87 Philadelphia Flyers - 5.78
6. 1976-79 New York Islanders - 5.76
7. 1987-90 Montreal Canadiens - 5.24
8. 1983-86 Philadelphia Flyers - 5.11
9. 1933-36 Toronto Maple Leafs - 4.97
10. 1985-88 Philadelphia Flyers - 4.91

The mid-eighties Flyers stake three spots in the top ten. Also, an appearance from the late-80s Habs, a very underrated team. That '86 Cup could have been the tip of the iceberg.

Five-Year SDS
1. 1992-96 Detroit Red Wings - 8.44
2. 1983-87 Philadelphia Flyers - 6.97
3. 2000-04 Ottawa Senators - 6.48
4. 1999-03 Ottawa Senators - 6.25
5. 1975-79 New York Islanders - 6.17
6. 1996-00 Philadelphia Flyers - 5.93
7. 1988-92 Montreal Canadiens - 5.91
8. 1980-84 Montreal Canadiens - 5.84
9. 1984-88 Philadelphia Flyers - 5.78
10. 1970-74 Chicago Blackhawks - 5.75

Once again, pre-Cup Wings and mid-80s Flyers, as well as the various 1980s Cup lulls of the Habs. We also see the late 90's Flyers make an appearance as well as the early 70s Blackhawks.

Statistically speaking, this suggests that the mid-80s Flyers and recent Senators (at least so far) are the best unrewarded teams of all-time. Both of these teams put up a few top-50 SDS rankings. Most teams that remain dominant over a period of time have found a way to win at least one Stanley Cup.

 

[Ogopogo*]

the Sabres were a fluke.

4 excellent seasons consectively is a fluke?