Best non-NA defensemen of all time?

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by NH, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. feffan

    feffan Registered User

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    Salming and Hedberg actually was a whole 7 years younger. Nilsson 6 year younger. And Salming came over 1 year earlier, so he "had 8 years more" than Sjoberg to show off. When Salming was the age Sjoberg came over, Salmings peak was over. His last All Star Team was 2 seasons before that. Of course, players careers are not the same. But Sjobergs peak seem to have begun almost 10 years before his first NA game. That´s why his "what if " intriges me.

    I could see a good argument for him in the late debate of the HOH top 60 d-men. It´s a quite big cluster there. But that also opens up for quite a few other european defencemen from that era I suppose. Thoose who where on the same level as Sjoberg in Europe, but didn´t get even his time in NA to show themselfes.

    Agreed. As said above, this kind of opens up about how good players like Rolle Stoltz really where (or could have been...). Scoring ain´t everything, but a 35-39 year Stoltz outscored a 22-26 year Sjoberg.

    On the same subject, how would a player like Sterner have faired if he stayed with the Rangers. On that Baltimore team he had company of 1 year older Ratelle, who had much greater stats. But the season before Ratelles stats resembled Sterners... He also had similar aged Bryan Hextall Jr as a teammate. Sterner scored 1 more point - in 19 less games. Of course Hextall Jr had to wait for expansion to get a spot in the NHL. Maybe Sterner would had as well. How would the whole european history in the NHL be shaped if Sterner stayed around a few more seasons and maybe established himselfe as a 2nd or even 1st liner in the NHL.
     
  2. double5son10

    double5son10 Registered User

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    Stefan Persson?
     
  3. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    just speaking as a canucks fan who watched those guys' entire careers in vancouver, i would have matthias ohlund ahead of them with no hesitation.

    having these two in the same tier seems odd to me too. stylistically similar players but kasparaitis was like an ulf samuelsson who didn't have the really high end defensive ability to back up the antics and highlight reel hits.
     
  4. RedWings51930

    RedWings51930 Registered User

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    Lidstrom, with Fetisov pretty close behind
     
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  5. Killion

    Killion Global Moderator

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    Rationally, objectively, hard to disagree.... Yet still, objectively & in not being able to remove entirely subjectivity, what Ive seen that cannot be unseen.... I'd actually slot Borje Salming in there somewhere somehow, maybe the #3 spot. I'm not a Leaf fan per se' but from Toronto so saw a fair amount of him from beginning to end & ya, did root for Toronto just as you did & I guess still do for Detroit. The thing with Salming was that he unfortunately never really enjoyed the same sort of supporting cast that your guys enjoyed but like a few rare players you could clearly see that had he been his legacy, appreciation for his play with greater team success would have been much more profound. Had he enjoyed the same team success as Lidstrom & Fetisov had I believe he would have been given the right situation been remembered even more favorably than he is. In many respects he was way ahead of his time. I can easily imagine him being talked about on the same level or plain as Lidstrom had he arrived 20-25yrs later & played for the Wings, Colorado or one of the leading teams who had their acts together even into the 00's, today for that matter. He really was that good.
     
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  6. Namba 17

    Namba 17 Registered User

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    Yes. I forgot about him. Probably, should be in #39-50 instead of Kasparaitis.
     
  7. Namba 17

    Namba 17 Registered User

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    Why? Whom would you choose between Salo and Lumme?

    Fixed:) See previous post:)
     
  8. crobro

    crobro Registered User

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    Pekka Rautakalio would have been a star had he stuck in the NHL
     
  9. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    why ohlund over salo and lumme? he was the only one elite at anything (the defensive and physical side of the puck), and even with impaired vision he was still a decent enough puck mover and 2nd unit PP option. at his peak i think he was a fringe top ten guy in the league, though the norris and AST voting doesn't bear that out because the games were on so late and the more offensive and "louder" jovanovski overshadowed him.

    lumme was easily the best offensively and it's not like he was a wimp out there but i always found him overrated. he was b+ offensive guy who ran the play more than he should have because there was no one else in vancouver. very good at a lot of things, but not great at any.

    salo was probably the smartest of the three but for a guy who could shoot like he could and hold the zone (really underrated, one of the best i've ever seen), he provided surprisingly little in the way of points on the board. as a decoy or someone to keep PKers honest, and as a very smart cog in the PP wheel not a main guy, he was great though. because of his incredible lack of durability, i put him below lumme. i think a healthy prime salo approached ohlund's impact though; the salo-mitchell pairing was the best shutdown pair i've seen on the canucks. but still, salo is not a guy you would play 25 minutes a night like ohlund or lumme, even if he killed his 20-22 minutes.
     
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  10. duga

    duga Registered User

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    Love the effort in here, some fine memories come up with some of the names dropped or listed.

    When I went through the thread and watched the lists, I thought a few names were missing. But pretty much all of them were dropped later. (Rautakallio, Ruotsalainen, Ohlund)

    Rexi is a legend in Switzerland and people who have seen him play still stand in awe of him. He came into the league when professionel hockey was just established, so the league wasn't as good as nowadays. He was absolutely crushing the competition and remains one of the biggest names that ever played in the NLA. He was said to be a better skater backwards then any swiss player forward... I loved watching him.

    Another guy that should be mentioned for his offensive prime more so than his defensive game is Petteri Nummelin. In his heyday he had everything, shot, vision, a gambling mind, a bag full of tricks, elusivness and a set of hands, one could only dream of. It's not a surprise, he has outstanding stats in shoot-outs in the NHL. Once he even was the topscorer in the whole NLA as a defenseman.
    Had a few very good intèrnational tournaments too. ( and to be fair a few that were less good)

    And I've seen Josi on the top 50 list but not Hedman, or am I blind? Those 2 are arguably the Nr.2 and 3 european Ds behind Karlsson for the last few years and should both make it IMO.

    Maybe it would be easier to make singular lists for the different countries and then merge them together?

    The Swiss list wouldn't be too long.
    Josi
    Streit

    the rest is irrelevant in european perspectives.
     
  11. Namba 17

    Namba 17 Registered User

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    Ok, thank you for input! Seems reasonable.
     
  12. Eisen

    Eisen Registered User

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    From a German perspective, I have Kiessling ahead of him. He was playing in a far inferior league so I don't blame anyone who doesn't think that way. But he was special. Still the record player for the German team. And one of perhaps 3 players at the time who could play against the big teams and not look out of place.
     
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  13. crobro

    crobro Registered User

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    Have there ever been any Asian Defenseman from Japan who have ever stood out in world championships or olympics?
     
  14. TheAngryHank

    TheAngryHank Expert

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    Where do you fine people put Fedorov on this list for his ability on the blue line during his short stints playing D? He played enough so showcase his skills so if he were full time where do you think he would rank?
     

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