Best non-NA defensemen of all time?

24 others

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Jan 30, 2017
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Unlike other positions, defense is still dominated by North American-born (mostly Canadian, of course) players - although the current generation of Swedish superstar defenders may later have something to say about that. So how would an all-time ranking of Euro/non-NA defensemen look like in your view?

Number 1 is obvious, no one can argue against Lidström. But who is next?
- Salming?
- Konstantinov, Fetisov?
- Or is it time for Chara and Karlsson already?

Then there is Zubov and Gonchar from the 1990s, Numminen for Finland, Hamrlík or Kaberle from the Czech Republic, maybe Ozolinsh? Only producing a decent top-10 may be difficult.

All input very welcome!

(by the way, I was checking the HOH top defenders of all time project and the links in the sticky are dead after the migration. Would be great to have those back!)
 
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JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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Seems like Fetisov would be alone in a small tier after Lidstrom, at least by historical consensus. Then there are players like Salming and Vasiliev. I think that Zubov would probably be in the mix for top ten. Maybe Suchy, but I find it difficult to judge the European players of the 60s. Karlsson would already belong and I suspect has a chance at topping the list. Hedman looks like a strong contender to make the list eventually as well.
 

Namba 17

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May 9, 2011
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#1 is Lidstrom #2 is Fetisov - it's pretty simple. I'll try to think about the rest of the list...
 

Namba 17

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The next group are, probably, Pospisil, Salming, Vasiliev, Karlsson (no order).
 

Albatros

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Aug 19, 2017
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Fetisov and Lidström are the top two, their order is a matter of taste. Sologubov is definitely a worthy candidate after them, went on to become the best Soviet defender of his era after being severely wounded in WWII.
 

Namba 17

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May 9, 2011
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And the next group: Svedberg, Zubov, Ragulin, Davydov, Lutchenko, Mahach, Pervukhin... probably, forgot smb...
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
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My top 5 would be :

1) Nicklas Lidstrom
2) Slava Fetisov (comparable in peak value to Lidstrom but Lidstrom was elite for twice as long)
3) Erik Karlsson
4) Zdeno Chara
5) Borje Salming
 

Pominville Knows

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Sep 28, 2012
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Would Karlsson not rival Fetisov? Remember that the latter's prime was not 20 years, although longer than one might think. At least Karlsson could be near the russian's tier.
 

Thenameless

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Apr 29, 2014
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Early in their Detroit career, I believe Konstantinov was ahead of Lidstrom in the pecking order, and I think Lidstrom confirmed this. Kind of scary if you think about it.
 

David Bruce Banner

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Mar 25, 2008
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Early in their Detroit career, I believe Konstantinov was ahead of Lidstrom in the pecking order, and I think Lidstrom confirmed this. Kind of scary if you think about it.

I loved Vlad. Reminded me in many ways of Potvin with a bit less offense and a bit more nastiness.

Anyway top 5 of...

Lidstrom
Karlsson
Fetisov
Chara
Salming

Also, Jyrki Lumme, although nowhere near these guys (or the next tier under) had a short window of time where he put his whole game together and was, for a season or two, one of the top defenders in the league. If he'd managed to play at that level for a longer time, he'd be a top 15 guy.
 

arrbez

bad chi
Jun 2, 2004
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#1 is Lidstrom #2 is Fetisov - it's pretty simple. I'll try to think about the rest of the list...

The next group are, probably, Pospisil, Salming, Vasiliev, Karlsson (no order).

May add Kasatonov to this group

And the group after: Suchy, Bubla, Chara, Sologubov...

I always find Chara to be really underrated. I think he could be argued as high as #3 or #4 on this list. I'd have him pretty clearly above the players you listed him beside.
 

Namba 17

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May 9, 2011
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I guess, I forgot to add Tikal and, probably, Konstantinov... I'll post my list with "#" in a while
 

MaxV

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Nov 6, 2006
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Any love for guys like Ulf Samuelsson or Darius Kasparaitis?

No, they were both role players with limitations, not stars.

To me Zubov is extremely underrated, great regular season career, even better in the post season, key member on 2 separate SC teams. He was offense only earlier in his career and developed a reputation despite the fact that he became a 2-way player later.

Gonchar was in a similar situation, but I would say his time as a 2-way D was shorter (he was AWESOME in Pittsburgh for a couple of years).
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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How can someone could possibly think of name-dropping Samuelsson and Kasparaitis in this thread?

That's kinda like trying to come up with a list of the best Habs netminder and suggesting Cristobal Huet.
 

Michael Farkas

Grace Personified
Jun 28, 2006
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I always find Chara to be really underrated.

See, I think the opposite. I think he's overrated from a few perspectives...not the least of which is the relatively weak d-man era he played in...and I'm saying this on the scale of greatness, not versus his contemporary peers...he really doesn't do a ton for me...ok, yeah, shutdown D, sure, big guy, capable of a hit, had a big shot...but on the "HOF scale" of things, really weak skater, really weak puck mover, not a carrier...I mean, he did come around from being a pretty poor player in his first few seasons, which is great by him...he is a threat to kill from the point...he willed a fringe NHL goalie to a Stanley Cup in 2011...he was a really terrific player, for sure...but from a pure talent perspective, he loses the tiebreaker for me on these all-time lists, so when I get the chance to slide him down, I do...but respectfully...
 

ChiefWiggum

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Dec 17, 2016
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Im am very open to differing opinions

Lidstrom quite easily number one

Karlsson is at number two. He may not be a great defensive defenseman, even now, but his offensive game is very explosive

3 is Fetisov. He was strong as an ox, tough as nails and could play an all around game. He was best in the USSR and slowed down significantly when he came across the pond
 

Namba 17

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May 9, 2011
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So:
#1 Lidstrom
#2 Fetisov
#3-6 Karlsson (alphabetical order)
#3-6 Pospisil
#3-6 Salming
#3-6 Vasiliev
#7 Kasatonov
#8 Suchy
#9 Bubla
#10 Sologubov
#11 Chara
#12 Ragulin
#13 Zubov
#14-15 Lutchenko
#14-15 Mahach
#16 Pervukhin
#17 Tikal
#18 Konstantinov
#19 Davydov
#20 Svedberg

I didn't intend to, but it is exactly 20 names:)
 

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