Line Combos: Bertuzzi replaces Mantha on the PP

[SoupGuru]

It would have made a lot of sense then to say Helm would be a healthy scratch for giving up the game winning goal turnover in three straight games.

Mantha deserves to be punished, his play is abysmal since we rolled into December. But there are a couple guys that need to be taken to task right now on this team. Now not Nielsen or some of the other targets but there are more than a few veterans that can be made an example out of right now. I would start with Helm since his inexcusable turnovers have been directly costing us games, easy example to be made.

Were Helm's turnovers a result of him not hustling? Were they a result of him not giving a shit?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Were Helm's turnovers a result of him not hustling? Were they a result of him not giving a ****?

If it happens in three straight games I don't care what his excuse is.... I would say yes they come from him not making decisions and not executing the details of the game. Straight hustle maybe not, but he is apparently disinterested in thinking the game so maybe he should give that a think in the press box.

 

[Redder Winger]

That unit can barely enter the zone anymore.

Every time it's the same. Defense drop it WAAAAY back to Larkin. Larkin sometimes gains the zone.
And then they pass the puck around the perimeter and nobody shoots.
Mantha is misused.
Athanasiou is misused too.

 

[Redder Winger]

It's hilarious watching the fanbase justify reducing the kids' roles in a team that everyone (outside the bubble) understands is in need of the youthful rebuild.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

JFC, If I was Mantha I'd demand a trade at this point. It's ridiculous.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

If it happens in three straight games I don't care what his excuse is.... I would say yes they come from him not making decisions and not executing the details of the game. Straight hustle maybe not, but he is apparently disinterested in thinking the game so maybe he should give that a think in the press box.

Helm is thinking of Dahlin.

 

[Shaman464]

Every time it's the same. Defense drop it WAAAAY back to Larkin. Larkin sometimes gains the zone.
And then they pass the puck around the perimeter and nobody shoots.
Mantha is misused.
Athanasiou is misused too.

Athanasiou isn't misused, hes just been figured out. Teams aren't allowing him to make his first move to blow by him and now he's not nearly as productive as he use to be. Why give a guy more time when he's not even doing the one thing he was supposed to be not shitty at?

 

[Redder Winger]

Athanasiou isn't misused, hes just been figured out. Teams aren't allowing him to make his first move to blow by him and now he's not nearly as productive as he use to be. Why give a guy more time when he's not even doing the one thing he was supposed to be not ****ty at?

1) I'm talking about the powerplay.
He's being misused, playing in the center of the ice with his back to the net, about 10 meters in front of the net.

It makes no f***ing sense.

 

[Shaman464]

1) I'm talking about the powerplay.
He's being misused, playing in the center of the ice with his back to the net, about 10 meters in front of the net.

It makes no ****ing sense.

Mantha or AA? AA I've seen more on the point or just below the dots waiting for a rebound. Mantha I have seen in that shit spot in the middle, or as I call it the Pulkks spot. The spot where players go to die.

 

[Redder Winger]

Mantha or AA? AA I've seen more on the point or just below the dots waiting for a rebound. Mantha I have seen in that **** spot in the middle, or as I call it the Pulkks spot. The spot where players go to die.

Mantha is directly in front of the net.
AA has been in that second net front spot - further out.

It's a f***ing awful scheme.

 

[jkutswings]

Athanasiou isn't misused, hes just been figured out. Teams aren't allowing him to make his first move to blow by him and now he's not nearly as productive as he use to be. Why give a guy more time when he's not even doing the one thing he was supposed to be not ****ty at?

This reminds me of Larkin last year. He was a one trick pony, the league figured him out, and he struggled all season, not having "an answer to their answer". Hopefully AA comes around to putting in the work in a similar fashion, and developing his game to become a better player.

 

[Shaman464]

This reminds me of Larkin last year. He was a one trick pony, the league figured him out, and he struggled all season, not having "an answer to their answer". Hopefully AA comes around to putting in the work in a similar fashion, and developing his game to become a better player.

The difference is that Larkin has always been a player that has been know as one with good work ethic. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't change his game up too much, especially if his new contract is lower than what he thinks it would have been when he signed this year.

 

[Goalie guy]

Trashill has no clue how to coach a team!!! He has lost this room the players are not and will not play for him. I don't care at this point Draper, Malts, Osgood, hell Mickey even! Just no more of the I can't do my job it's the kids fault, move him here, put him over there.

 

[kliq]

Trashill has no clue how to coach a team!!! He has lost this room the players are not and will not play for him. I don't care at this point Draper, Malts, Osgood, hell Mickey even! Just no more of the I can't do my job it's the kids fault, move him here, put him over there.

Interesting, this can't be a coincidence.

 

[HIFE]

It's hilarious watching the fanbase justify reducing the kids' roles in a team that everyone (outside the bubble) understands is in need of the youthful rebuild.

I also find the pickiness toward our youngest players kind of strange. Part of the reaction may be from becoming accustomed to the highest quality of hockey for so long. When all you've had is stars and superstars in their prime mixed in with rookies who are at least 24 years old the deficiencies of the young guys today appear painfully obvious.

After 15 years of watching Detroit utterly dominate the NHL their fans are entering uncharted territory. It's a lot easier to type the word rebuild than realize it means trading your strongest, experienced, and most valuable assets for what amounts to a collection of prospects on a try-out. The plan is not to win now, but in the future when your top players are at their peak. Funny the hubbub in Toronto over their chances this season. Sure they've won some games but truly they are building to compete in 3-5 years, not now. Matthews and Marner in 4 years with the right UFA defenseman and key role guys, look out then.

I believe the expectations for Mantha and AA are simply unrealistic. Same thing happened with Nyquist and Tatar. I know this subject is debated but at the time some of us felt extremely hopeful about their future. Well they've since regressed to 2nd or high 3rd line players and those who could see they weren't the euro-twins 2.0 were proven correct. I keep reading Mantha's playing like crap or his effort level is terrible, etc. What if we're just watching a young player learning his trade, who's immediate impact isn't as extraordinary as imagined/dreamed/expected?

I don't see what pushing Mantha's buttons hopes to accomplish. Give the young dudes time/space to develop and they will be what they are. And they will be paid accordingly. At the moment these are the last individuals I choose to point a finger at.

 

[SoupGuru]

But isn't that the thing, though? If we're building this team to be good in a few years, don't you want to iron out any compete level issues now? "We are hoping you will be an important part of the team in a few years. That team is going to need to bring it every game. You need to learn how to bring your A-game every night."

I agree, these guys are learning their trade. And probably the biggest lesson they can learn right now is work ethic.

 

[TatarTangle]

Mantha is directly in front of the net.
AA has been in that second net front spot - further out.

It's a ****ing awful scheme.

Have, what, the 8th best PP in the league earlier but go on a drought,

Blashill: Time to blow it up

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I also find the pickiness toward our youngest players kind of strange. Part of the reaction may be from becoming accustomed to the highest quality of hockey for so long. When all you've had is stars and superstars in their prime mixed in with rookies who are at least 24 years old the deficiencies of the young guys today appear painfully obvious.

After 15 years of watching Detroit utterly dominate the NHL their fans are entering uncharted territory. It's a lot easier to type the word rebuild than realize it means trading your strongest, experienced, and most valuable assets for what amounts to a collection of prospects on a try-out. The plan is not to win now, but in the future when your top players are at their peak. Funny the hubbub in Toronto over their chances this season. Sure they've won some games but truly they are building to compete in 3-5 years, not now. Matthews and Marner in 4 years with the right UFA defenseman and key role guys, look out then.

I believe the expectations for Mantha and AA are simply unrealistic. Same thing happened with Nyquist and Tatar. I know this subject is debated but at the time some of us felt extremely hopeful about their future. Well they've since regressed to 2nd or high 3rd line players and those who could see they weren't the euro-twins 2.0 were proven correct. I keep reading Mantha's playing like crap or his effort level is terrible, etc. What if we're just watching a young player learning his trade, who's immediate impact isn't as extraordinary as imagined/dreamed/expected?

I don't see what pushing Mantha's buttons hopes to accomplish. Give the young dudes time/space to develop and they will be what they are. And they will be paid accordingly. At the moment these are the last individuals I choose to point a finger at.

What pushing Mantha's buttons accomplishes (if it takes) is it gives you a bull in a china shop that busts his ass every night. Imagine if Franzen could internalize the power stuff he did against the Avalanche in the playoffs and just play every game that way. You'd have an unholy terror on your first line. Same with Mantha. Get him to play his ass off 100% of the time and you have a rocket fast skater with a deadly shot who backchecks and becomes one of those potential core players everyone drones on about missing.

And also, it's a hell of a lot to correct bad habits when you're learning your craft than when you've already learned your craft. It is a lot easier to, in the immediate aftermath, say "Tony, the hell are you doing? You need to close off that point man. Watch what Hank or Darren do" than if you wait until Mantha is the BMOC and you try saying it. It's a little bit like training a dog. You can't see something they did wrong and then criticize them several weeks, months, or years later. If you want to change habits, you need to get on them ASAP.

This complaint is more about AA than Mantha, but there are plays were average fan looks at AA and sees "that dude quit on a play" or "he's just not skating hard". Not mistakes, exactly, but very evident lapses in effort. They see that he can skate like lightning to capitalize on a breakaway but all of a sudden can't catch Benoit Pouliot when he has to play some defense.

 

[MikeyDee]

What pushing Mantha's buttons accomplishes (if it takes) is it gives you a bull in a china shop that busts his ass every night. Imagine if Franzen could internalize the power stuff he did against the Avalanche in the playoffs and just play every game that way. You'd have an unholy terror on your first line. Same with Mantha. Get him to play his ass off 100% of the time and you have a rocket fast skater with a deadly shot who backchecks and becomes one of those potential core players everyone drones on about missing.

And also, it's a hell of a lot to correct bad habits when you're learning your craft than when you've already learned your craft. It is a lot easier to, in the immediate aftermath, say "Tony, the hell are you doing? You need to close off that point man. Watch what Hank or Darren do" than if you wait until Mantha is the BMOC and you try saying it. It's a little bit like training a dog. You can't see something they did wrong and then criticize them several weeks, months, or years later. If you want to change habits, you need to get on them ASAP.

This complaint is more about AA than Mantha, but there are plays were average fan looks at AA and sees "that dude quit on a play" or "he's just not skating hard". Not mistakes, exactly, but very evident lapses in effort. They see that he can skate like lightning to capitalize on a breakaway but all of a sudden can't catch Benoit Pouliot when he has to play some defense.

I find that both AA and Mantha, at times look like they're play a pick-up game. Doesn't seem to be much effort on either of their part sometimes. Mantha should be using his body more and being more of a Bull (in the corners and in front of the net). He has a good shot, but sometimes you need your size to get those garbage goals that take some effort... get your nose dirty!

 

[Reddwit]

I'm bummed. I really like Mantha and AA a lot but they've just been anemic for a while now.

But here's the thing: We knew they had these issues. Does that excuse them? No. But if Mantha and AA came with no installation required, they wouldn't have been around where we drafted them.

So what do we do? Do we use tired, lazy techniques to "teach a guy a lesson?" Do we bitch and moan about how these guys need to play better (very constructive)? Do we criticize Mantha and AA as though they slept with our significant others or personally robbed us of an NHL roster spot (seriously, some of you guys need to chill out)??

No. Because obviously that isn't working. And you know what? You f***ing made your bed when you chose 2 guys with well-documented character flaws. Unless you have pulled out all the stops, searched high and low for what might make these guys tick - sports psychologists, 1-on-1 mentoring, medication, Dan Cleary - then you don't get to be lazy about 2 of your greatest assets while also belaboring the fact that NHL is all about parity and that you have to do whatever you can to gain a sliver of a competitive edge. This is an organization that had a 25 year long playoff streak because they were innovative in scouting regions that went unscouted and selecting players that bucked the trend. You want to gain a competitive edge again? Use those millions of dollars that you've spent on coaching, player admin and development and once again be that innovative, front-edge leading organization that figures out a way to bring out the competitive nature of these guys in a consistent way.

 

[Redder Winger]

Were Helm's turnovers a result of him not hustling? Were they a result of him not giving a ****?

What's the difference?

When a veteran turns the puck over in his own zone, that's even less forgiveable than a guy with 110 games to his name doing it.

 

[Goalie guy]

Interesting, this can't be a coincidence.

You find one good thing he has done as a NHL coach anything? His PP sucks, His system or rather lack there of sucks, His use of players sucks, He can not motivate his team, He can not find any chemistry on his team.Hes just not working out here sorry he has reached the end of the road.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

JFC, If I was Mantha I'd demand a trade at this point. It's ridiculous.

Mantha is under team control for 4 more years, How did asking out work for Trouba last year it didn't Mantha can ask doesn't mean it will happen.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

So according to Blashill Mantha has an nagging injury, Probably the reason why Bertuzzi is on the PP over him.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I laughed my ass off reading everybody freak out. The guy is injured relax