Beliveau says players making a mistake

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quat

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vanlady said:
Of course they hire them. Jean Beliveau worked for the Canadiens. He was a Vice President for more than 10 years. He hasn't been a player for a long time, he is management. I would expect the same thing from Bobby Clarke.

Maybe he's just giving his opinion. Oh wait... it's different than yours. Imagine that!
 

vanlady

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puck you said:
PR stands for public relations, the public are the fans, I don't think PR is phoney.

It is also up to us as fans to become educated an not buy everything the NHL says at face value, they don't have the history with credibility to due that.
 

vanlady

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quat said:
Maybe he's just giving his opinion. Oh wait... it's different than yours. Imagine that!

What I find funny is Cliff Fletcher one of the real builders of the game rips Garry Bettman in his HHOF induction speach, we don't here that. But Beliveau get's trotted out and everyone jumps on what he says.
 

quat

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vanlady said:
It is also up to us as fans to become educated an not buy everything the NHL says at face value, they don't have the history with credibility to due that.

Yeah, the writing on the wall is so difficult to read. You "guys" are pretty funny. Anyone who disagrees with you and the PA either hates the players or are in love with the owners. No, it can't be because (as almost everyone has said), they are worried about the game, and their solution is just different than yours. That's just not paranoid enough.
 

quat

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vanlady said:
What I find funny is Cliff Fletcher one of the real builders of the game rips Garry Bettman in his HHOF induction speach, we don't here that. But Beliveau get's trotted out and everyone jumps on what he says.

I see. What Cliff Fletcher says is gospel, and Beliveau the trick pony (trotted out? for real!), is just a paid sycophant. Nice research on that one. To me it looks like guys with two different opinions. Perhaps you wo do well to be mindfull of your own recommendations.
 

Bicycle Repairman

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I would like to read what Cliff Fletcher allegedly said. He's not the type to just spout off. Since he's still employed in a hockey capacity for an NHL team, I find it hard to believe he'd be less than guarded in his public pronouncements.
 

roadrunner

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Bicycle Repairman said:
I would like to read what Cliff Fletcher allegedly said. He's not the type to just spout off. Since he's still employed in a hockey capacity for an NHL team, I find it hard to believe he'd be less than guarded in his public pronouncements.

From azcentral.com

snipet:

Fletcher, 69, took a few moments toward the end of his speech to offer an optimistic view of the nearly eight-week-old-and-counting NHL lockout, which is becoming harder and harder to find these days.

"The game is going through a difficult time now, but it has before, and it has always prospered because of the people involved and their willingness to put the good of the sport ahead of their own interests," he said. "I'm confident it will happen in this case as well and that we'll be back stronger than ever, all of us doing our part."

Roadrunner's take:

And this is coming from a man who has punched the clock for NHL hockey for 48 years. Neither the owners nor the players are the most important thing. It is the game itself that eclipses all agendas. God Bless you, Cliff Fletcher.
 
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Bicycle Repairman

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Thanks roadrunner.

Now, I'm a reasonable man. I'll give the other side its due.

Nothing in Fletcher's comments constitutes a rip on Bettman. At least in that article. A call for reconciliation suits me just fine.

I've always maintained settlement of the dispute requires respect emanating from both sides. Crushing the union is no solution, nor is maintaining the status quo. Obviously, something needs to be worked out.

Respecting the primacy of the NHLPA to negotiate on the behalf of players is a first step. Like 'em or not, they are still a legal entity and it's in the best interest of the game to have them as partners with ownership. The NFL learned that lesson.
 

roadrunner

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Bicycle Repairman said:
I've always maintained settlement of the dispute requires respect emanating from both sides. Crushing the union is no solution, nor is maintaining the status quo. Obviously, something needs to be worked out.

I agree totally with that paragraph. EVERYONE is losing right now because talks are not happening. It IS, as the "Silver Fox" (Fletcher) said, going to take all people doing their part to pull this thing out of the gutter and into the light that it deserves...the best players in the world playing the best game in the world. NHL hockey!
 

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Bicycle Repairman said:
Beliveau? The guy who played for the Quebec Aces and held out on the Canadiens until he could shake them down for a then-unheard-of sum? That guy?


he just would have rather played for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Good for him for shaking the cons out of the Canadiens' pockets.
 

vanlady

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Bicycle Repairman said:
Thanks roadrunner.

Now, I'm a reasonable man. I'll give the other side its due.

Nothing in Fletcher's comments constitutes a rip on Bettman. At least in that article. A call for reconciliation suits me just fine.

I've always maintained settlement of the dispute requires respect emanating from both sides. Crushing the union is no solution, nor is maintaining the status quo. Obviously, something needs to be worked out.

Respecting the primacy of the NHLPA to negotiate on the behalf of players is a first step. Like 'em or not, they are still a legal entity and it's in the best interest of the game to have them as partners with ownership. The NFL learned that lesson.

It is a rip on Bettman when Fletcher was staring right at Bettman while he was making those comments. Bettman was squirming so bad it looked like he had fire ants in his pants.
 

vanlady

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roadrunner said:
I agree totally with that paragraph. EVERYONE is losing right now because talks are not happening. It IS, as the "Silver Fox" (Fletcher) said, going to take all people doing their part to pull this thing out of the gutter and into the light that it deserves...the best players in the world playing the best game in the world. NHL hockey!

I completely agree with you. The problem I have is there seems to be more action on the PR campaign, that getting a deal done.
 

vanlady

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quat said:
I see. What Cliff Fletcher says is gospel, and Beliveau the trick pony (trotted out? for real!), is just a paid sycophant. Nice research on that one. To me it looks like guys with two different opinions. Perhaps you wo do well to be mindfull of your own recommendations.

No what I have a problem with, is reporters jump all over comments like Beliveau's but Fletcher's comments and comments made by other greats of the game are ignored such as Ted Lindsay on OTR. If you want to report do it from both sides. It is not the job of the press to be biased.
 

habfan4

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vanlady said:
Why not we have heard from 2 management types already Beliveau and Lafleure. My guess Ken Dryden will chime in again soon, and we all know who he worked for.

Lafleur and Beliveau are "Ambassadors" for the Canadiens (they do charity work) not management (neither one has been management for over a decade). I guess having any kind of affliation with NHL management (past or present) means you can't voice an honest opinion :shakehead .
 

Chelios

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vanlady said:
It is a rip on Bettman when Fletcher was staring right at Bettman while he was making those comments. Bettman was squirming so bad it looked like he had fire ants in his pants.

Was Goodenow there? The reason I`m asking is because it seems to me he was talking about both Goodenow and Bettman. I`m assuming that the reason he was looking at Bettman was because he was sitting right there, while Goodenow wasn`t.
 

vanlady

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Chelios said:
Was Goodenow there? The reason I`m asking is because it seems to me he was talking about both Goodenow and Bettman. I`m assuming that the reason he was looking at Bettman was because he was sitting right there, while Goodenow wasn`t.

To be honest I don't know if Goodenow was there. but Trevor Linden was. The camera focused soley on Bettman and watched him squirm. To be honest Cliff Fletcher has never been a fan of Bettman though.
 

vanlady

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habfan4 said:
Lafleur and Beliveau are "Ambassadors" for the Canadiens (they do charity work) not management (neither one has been management for over a decade). I guess having any kind of affliation with NHL management (past or present) means you can't voice an honest opinion :shakehead .

My problem is why are the opinions of the players who have never been management not being reported? And why does the opinion of Mike Commadore get massive air time but interviews with other players not even get a 3 second spot? The media campaign has been so one sided it is pathetic, what have the owners told reporters they will be ostercized if they report a pro PA stance?
 

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vanlady said:
My problem is why are the opinions of the players who have never been management not being reported? And why does the opinion of Mike Commadore get massive air time but interviews with other players not even get a 3 second spot? The media campaign has been so one sided it is pathetic, what have the owners told reporters they will be ostercized if they report a pro PA stance?

Maybe you should consider the possiblity that it has something to do with the stupidity and selfishness of the PA's position, instead of making up conspiracy theories.

The vast majority of people seem to have figured it out, hopefully you will some day too.
 

struckmatch

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Bicycle Repairman said:
The "fans" hate the players though. I thought we had that all squared up.

The fans have shown a great deal of hatrid towards the players because they for some reason actually believe they can win this war.
 

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vanlady said:
My problem is why are the opinions of the players who have never been management not being reported? And why does the opinion of Mike Commadore get massive air time but interviews with other players not even get a 3 second spot? The media campaign has been so one sided it is pathetic, what have the owners told reporters they will be ostercized if they report a pro PA stance?

Because all these media outlets have dealings with the NHL. TSN, Sportsnet, CHUM, etc. They all need to stay on the NHL's good side. On the other hand, if they tick off the PA who really cares if Be a Player stays on the air?

Do you think TSN wants to lose its national broadcast deal or all the footage they use for the NHL Network or ESPN Classic Canada? TSN has the most to lose if they don't tow the NHL's line. That's why their "respected" employees act like ownership shills. Listening to Pierre McGuire on the radio these days is a sickening experience. You can even hear the brown on his nose it is so blatant. They try to look impartial by putting their most inept employee, Glen Healy, on the air to back the players.
 

vanlady

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Thunderstruck said:
Maybe you should consider the possiblity that it has something to do with the stupidity and selfishness of the PA's position, instead of making up conspiracy theories.

The vast majority of people seem to have figured it out, hopefully you will some day too.

OK stupidty and selfisheness, is it stupid and selfish for any union to try and get the best deal it can for its membership? No difference here. By the way are the players supposed to throw up thier hands and say "oh we trust you, we know you would never cheat us". They did that once and the owners raided their pension plan for 42 million. Before you start screaming that this is a generalization, I suggest you find out how many owners today were around in 1994.

I get that in 1991 I woke up to find out that I was a fan of the most corrupt league in modern pro sports history. Guys like Bobby Orr were receiving pensions equal to $8,400 cdn a year and had just been robbed of a 16 million dollar stake in the Bruins.

Oh beleive it or not I am not so much on the players side as I am very anti owner. I trusted these guys as a fan in 94 when they said they got the best of the union and they now had an economic system that would drive the league to stability. And just where are we now?
 

vanlady

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BlackRedGold said:
Because all these media outlets have dealings with the NHL. TSN, Sportsnet, CHUM, etc. They all need to stay on the NHL's good side. On the other hand, if they tick off the PA who really cares if Be a Player stays on the air?

Do you think TSN wants to lose its national broadcast deal or all the footage they use for the NHL Network or ESPN Classic Canada? TSN has the most to lose if they don't tow the NHL's line. That's why their "respected" employees act like ownership shills. Listening to Pierre McGuire on the radio these days is a sickening experience. You can even hear the brown on his nose it is so blatant. They try to look impartial by putting their most inept employee, Glen Healy, on the air to back the players.

And I thought it was just me.
 

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IMO the PA has good reason NOT to trust the owners, but have failed 100% to bring those reasons forward properly. If the players agreed to cost certainty based on independant examination of revenue and the owners refused to open the books, the public would be far more willing to question the owners.

In reality, I think the PA rejects the salary to revenue tie because they see the revenue stream dropping in the future. Ironically, their actions are insuring that their prophesy comes true.
 
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