Battle of the best right wingers ever!!

[chooch*]

You may have a point that he was a better goal scorer then Lafleur but Lafleur was a great goal scorer himself who didnt have a great playmaking center Bossy did in Trottier and Potvin on defense. Yes I kno he had the big three but those were more defensive then offensive minded defenseman. And lets not talk about Shutt. Also Lafleur was the much better playmaker as well. Overall it's close but if Lafleur had taken care of himself as in not smoke 2 packs everyday and drink he would've had 9 50 or more goal seasons as well. I mean he had 6 in a row and in the 7th year he scored 27 goals in 51 games. Anyhow Lafleur was the better playoff performer too. Also it should be taken into account that hockey news classed Lafleur as the 11th best player of all time while Bossy was ranked 20th.

There's no comparison - how many real individual trophies did Bossy win? How many times did he lead the league in scoring? Heck he had more goals than assist for his career even in the playoffs. Great scorer. Average skater, ave stickhandler, ave passer. Anyone remember Bossy going end to end? Or even rushing with puck? Played in cartoon scoring era also. Most of all, Trottier was the superior player.

Bossy was no Guy Lafleur.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Just wondering, what are the chances Iginla moves up to as high as No 7? I think its possible he surpases Brett Hull and Pavel Bure (since Iginla is a much better overall player, and for his time, lead and co-lead the league in goals).

 

[Rather Gingerly 1*]

Rank the best right wingers ever and explain why.

1- Gordie Howe
2- Rocket Richard
3- Guy Lafleur
4- Mike Bossy
5- Jari Kurri
6- Jaromir Jagr
7- Bret Hull
8- Boom Boom Geoffrion
9- Pavel Bure

By the way I'll explain my choices later.

I can't remember the Rocket, Geoffrion, etc... but the best I have seen would be
Lafleur
Bossy
Hull
Jagr
Kurri
MacDonald

 

[pei fan]

I can't remember the Rocket, Geoffrion, etc... but the best I have seen would be
Lafleur
Bossy
Hull
Jagr
Kurri
MacDonald

Okay I'll bite.MacDonald?

 

[Rather Gingerly 1*]

Okay I'll bite.MacDonald?

I meant McDonald. lol

Wasn't talking about the Big Mac guy

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

Bill Cook should be included way before Lanny Mcdonald ever is...

 

[#66]

Bill Cook should be included way before Lanny Mcdonald ever is...

Good call. Conacher Too.

 

[Mothra]

Bill Cook should be included way before Lanny Mcdonald ever is...

of course you are joking.....

 

[Big Phil]

Gordie Howe is #1 without a doubt. With all dues respect to the Rocket. Howe won 6 scoring titles, and 6 MVPs. Richard only one MVP in '47. Some people, not myself though, put Gordie #1 off all time, even ahead of #99, and #4. I put him tied for third with Mario, but definetly the best right winger ever.

 

[KOVALEV10*]

Gordie Howe is #1 without a doubt. With all dues respect to the Rocket. Howe won 6 scoring titles, and 6 MVPs. Richard only one MVP in '47. Some people, not myself though, put Gordie #1 off all time, even ahead of #99, and #4. I put him tied for third with Mario, but definetly the best right winger ever.

Well Richard was robbed of the Hart trophy at least twice in his career if not more.

1944- Walter Pratt 50 17 40 57 Rocket: 46 32 22 54
1945- Elmer Lach 50 26 54 80 Rocket: 50 50 23 73
1948- Buddy O'Connor 60 24 36 60 Rocket: 53 28 25 53
1951- Milt Schmidt 62 22 39 61 Rocket: 65 42 24 66
1955- Ted Kennedy 70 10 42 52 Rocket: 67 38 36 74

In those 5 seasons Rocket outscored Pratt by 15 goals in 4 less games, Elmer Lach by 24 goals, Buddy O'Connor by 4 goals in 7 less games, Milt Schmidt by 20 goals and Ted Kennedy by 28 goals. I know stats aren't everything but I dont get why they didnt award him at least one more Hart trophy. He was a leader, the best goal scorer of his time (better then howe) a tough player who took a lot of abuse yet still would score like a machine and guys like Waltery Pratt won MVP-s over Rocket ?

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Well Richard was robbed of the Hart trophy at least twice in his career if not more.

1944- Walter Pratt 50 17 40 57 Rocket: 46 32 22 54
1945- Elmer Lach 50 26 54 80 Rocket: 50 50 23 73
1948- Buddy O'Connor 60 24 36 60 Rocket: 53 28 25 53
1951- Milt Schmidt 62 22 39 61 Rocket: 65 42 24 66
1955- Ted Kennedy 70 10 42 52 Rocket: 67 38 36 74

In those 5 seasons Rocket outscored Pratt by 15 goals in 4 less games, Elmer Lach by 24 goals, Buddy O'Connor by 4 goals in 7 less games, Milt Schmidt by 20 goals and Ted Kennedy by 28 goals. I know stats aren't everything but I dont get why they didnt award him at least one more Hart trophy. He was a leader, the best goal scorer of his time (better then howe) a tough player who took a lot of abuse yet still would score like a machine and guys like Waltery Pratt won MVP-s over Rocket ?

That's a good question Kovalev, sometimes I wonder why a player as widely respected as Richard won "only" 1 Hart Trophy. So, looking at each of those years you mentioned, let's see why Richard might not have won MPV:

1944: Richard wasn't even a top 10 scorer and was only 6th in goals. Also, he was only in his 2nd year in the league and Hart voters have traditionally discriminated against young players. Conversely, Pratt played defense that year and had the highest-scoring season from a defenseman til Pilote came along.

1945: This one always confuses me. Richard scores 50 g in 50 games, sets the record for most goals in a season, and had 18 more goals than the runner-up! But, he wasn't even named MVP. Nowadays everyone talks about how amazing that season was. Why was the NHL not as impressed with Richard's season as we are today?

1948: Montreal didn't make the playoffs this year. When your team doesn't make the playoffs, you rarely win a major award (fairly or not). I'm guessing that's the reason Richard wasn't MVP this year.

1951: Gordie Howe simply had a better year. Howe led the league in goals, assists and points.

1955: Richard had a good year, but arguably Geoffrion was even better. Kennedy scored less points than Richard (not even in the top 10), but he probably got some votes for being such a terrific defensive player.

So the only year I think Richard was robbed was 1945. But, it seems odd that looking back people are so obsessed with the 50-goals-in-50-games season, but the NHL at the time didn't even name him MVP. I wonder why? Anybody know? 1955 was also debateable but I don't think Richard deserved MVP the other three years.

 

[KOVALEV10*]

That's a good question Kovalev, sometimes I wonder why a player as widely respected as Richard won "only" 1 Hart Trophy. So, looking at each of those years you mentioned, let's see why Richard might not have won MPV:

1944: Richard wasn't even a top 10 scorer and was only 6th in goals. Also, he was only in his 2nd year in the league and Hart voters have traditionally discriminated against young players. Conversely, Pratt played defense that year and had the highest-scoring season from a defenseman til Pilote came along.

1945: This one always confuses me. Richard scores 50 g in 50 games, sets the record for most goals in a season, and had 18 more goals than the runner-up! But, he wasn't even named MVP. Nowadays everyone talks about how amazing that season was. Why was the NHL not as impressed with Richard's season as we are today?

1948: Montreal didn't make the playoffs this year. When your team doesn't make the playoffs, you rarely win a major award (fairly or not). I'm guessing that's the reason Richard wasn't MVP this year.

1951: Gordie Howe simply had a better year. Howe led the league in goals, assists and points.

1955: Richard had a good year, but arguably Geoffrion was even better. Kennedy scored less points than Richard (not even in the top 10), but he probably got some votes for being such a terrific defensive player.

So the only year I think Richard was robbed was 1945. But, it seems odd that looking back people are so obsessed with the 50-goals-in-50-games season, but the NHL at the time didn't even name him MVP. I wonder why? Anybody know? 1955 was also debateable but I don't think Richard deserved MVP the other three years.

Good points but in 1951 Milt Schmilt(sp?) won it.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Good points but in 1951 Milt Schmilt(sp?) won it.

True, my mistake. In that case I'm surprised that Howe didn't win it.

But it's always hard to look back and guess what voters from 50 years might have looked for in their MVP.

 

[KOVALEV10*]

Yeah that's true.. but if Howe is better then Rocket only because he has more trophies then does that mean Lafleur and Jagr are beter too?

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Richard has been on 14 all star teams; 8 of those are first teams. That's a lot more than Jagr (6 first, 7 total) and Lafleur (6 first, 6 total). That gives Richard a big edge over Jagr and Lafleur in my opinion. And while Richard never won the Art Ross he was runner-up five times, so we know his offense (let alone his goal-scoring) is at least comparable to that of Jagr and Richard.

I think the biggest reason most people say that Howe is better than Richard (and I agree with that, I'd rank them 1 and 2) is because they played in roughly the same era and Howe was more dominant, in terms of both points and awards.

 

[KOVALEV10*]

What about Lafleur? He lead the league in points for 3 years, also won the Lester Pearson trophy 3 times and the Hart twice as well as a conn smythe trophy and 5 stanley cups, scored 50 or more goals and 119 or more points in 6 straight seasons and was on pace to getting more then 100 points for the next 2 years in 81 and 82 as well but was injured. Too bad he also smoked 2 packs a day and drank and didnt take care of himself, plus the accident in 81, being burned out after 4 cups in a row and a coach in Lemaire who was rarely playing him and the pressure to perform at the same level every year really dropped his incredible numbers. Do you think if those things hadnt happened he would've still scored a point per game and maybe even more a lot more seasons then he did?

 

[Quiet Robert]

I think the biggest reason most people say that Howe is better than Richard (and I agree with that, I'd rank them 1 and 2) is because they played in roughly the same era and Howe was more dominant, in terms of both points and awards.

I agree and I would also add that the longevity of his career and the fact that he was able to dominate for that long puts him ahead. When taking about the all-time greats, Gordie is usually anywhere from 1st to 4th at worst. I also agree with the assesement of Howe 1st and Richard 2nd.

But, Rocket's playoff performances were amazing. I was watching the NHL network and they showed Rocket's 4 goal playoff game against Boston (I think it was 58, it was late in his career), he was an absolute force out there.

 

[Mothra]

Richard has been on 14 all star teams; 8 of those are first teams. That's a lot more than Jagr (6 first, 7 total) and Lafleur (6 first, 6 total). That gives Richard a big edge over Jagr and Lafleur in my opinion.

You have to factor in that Richard played in a 6 team league though

 

[pei fan]

Ronald McDonald >Lanny

 

[pnep]

RW from my HHOF Monitor ...

POS -- Seasons -- Adj PTS -- PO PTS -- ASG -- 1 ALL STAR -- 2 ALL STAR -- Inducted? -- HHOF Monitor -- Player Name
================================================== ===========
R -- 26 -- 2113,22 -- 160,00 -- 23 -- 12 -- 9 -- Y -- 5771,61 -- Howe Gordie
R -- 18 -- 1177,95 -- 126,00 -- 13 -- 08 -- 6 -- Y -- 3339,98 -- Richard Maurice
R -- 14 -- 1297,29 -- 154,00 -- 09 -- 06 -- 1 -- - -- 3157,64 -- Jagr Jaromir
R -- 17 -- 1082,07 -- 134,00 -- 07 -- 06 -- 0 -- Y -- 2980,04 -- Lafleur Guy
R -- 10 -- 0863,16 -- 160,00 -- 08 -- 05 -- 3 -- Y -- 2286,58 -- Bossy Mike
R -- 19 -- 1313,46 -- 187,00 -- 08 -- 03 -- 0 -- - -- 2113,73 -- Hull Brett
R -- 16 -- 0959,87 -- 118,00 -- 11 -- 01 -- 2 -- Y -- 1952,93 -- Geoffrion Bernie
R -- 17 -- 1109,16 -- 233,00 -- 09 -- 02 -- 3 -- Y -- 1937,58 -- Kurri Jari
R -- 17 -- 1066,88 -- 035,00 -- 08 -- 02 -- 2 -- Y -- 1828,44 -- Bathgate Andy
R -- 14 -- 0693,37 -- 110,00 -- 07 -- 02 -- 1 -- Y -- 1601,68 -- Moore Dickie
R -- 12 -- 0953,56 -- 033,00 -- 09 -- 02 -- 2 -- - -- 1594,78 -- Selanne Teemu
R -- 16 -- 0803,66 -- 127,00 -- 06 -- 00 -- 4 -- Y -- 1493,83 -- Cournoyer Yvan
R -- 11 -- 0801,48 -- 024,00 -- 00 -- 03 -- 1 -- Y -- 1479,74 -- Cook Bill
R -- 12 -- 0730,81 -- 035,00 -- 00 -- 03 -- 2 -- Y -- 1440,41 -- Conacher Charlie
R -- 15 -- 0645,48 -- 063,00 -- 10 -- 01 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1245,74 -- Provost Claude
R -- 12 -- 0779,10 -- 070,00 -- 06 -- 01 -- 2 -- - -- 1174,55 -- Bure Pavel
R -- 20 -- 0813,60 -- 030,00 -- 00 -- 03 -- 3 -- Y -- 1121,80 -- Clapper Dit
R -- 17 -- 0864,45 -- 106,00 -- 03 -- 01 -- 0 -- Y -- 1083,23 -- Mullen Joe
R -- 16 -- 1130,50 -- 097,00 -- 07 -- 00 -- 1 -- - -- 1077,25 -- Recchi Mark
R -- 15 -- 0706,50 -- 084,00 -- 03 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 1047,25 -- Rousseau Bobby
R -- 09 -- 0528,62 -- 024,00 -- 03 -- 01 -- 1 -- - -- 1038,31 -- Iginla Jarome
R -- 11 -- 0538,42 -- 012,00 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 1011,21 -- Dye Babe

 

[bert]

I have only seen a handful of the players listed but statistically ppg vs gpg Jagr is the best. I was born in 1983 so clearly I cant give any real opinions on most of these guys, but after Mario in the early 90's I have never seen any player dominate as an individual as much as Jagr did in the late 90's once scoring started to really go down and he stayed at the same pace. Then as we all know a combination of things (drugs, gambling, loss of a love for the game) really brought his career down a notch in the 2000's.

 

[pnep]

Then as we all know a combination of things (drugs, gambling, loss of a love for the game) really brought his career down a notch in the 2000's.

 

[Rather Gingerly 1*]

Bill Cook should be included way before Lanny Mcdonald ever is...

Lanny was one of the best goal scorers of his era, 68 one year. Bill Cook I never seen play - can't count him

 

[KOVALEV10*]

Lanny was one of the best goal scorers of his era, 68 one year. Bill Cook I never seen play - can't count him

Actually Lanny was just a one year wonder when he scored 66 he couldnt get more then 33 after that.

 

[Mothra]

Actually Lanny was just a one year wonder when he scored 66 he couldnt get more then 33 after that.

One year wonder???? I think you are wrong.....66 was a career year for sure....and his best after that was only 33 (missing about 15 games) but we are talking about a 500 goal guy who scored 40 or more 3 other times (besides his big year with the Flames)....it should also be noted that he had 34 the year before in only 55 games

I think you are confusing "one year wonder" with "career year"